214 réponses à ce sujet

[Shinobu]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

GodWood wrote...

If you're genuinely curious visit the Illusive Man thread.

Goody Two Shoes wrote...
INB4 Cerberus turning on Shepard is bad writing, despite the fact that it was stated dozens of times that they'd eventually betray you.

Them betraying Shepard isn't bad writing (per se).
Them betraying Shepard just because is bad writing.

There's also the way they betray him. I mean, imagine if Judas betrayed Jesus by pulling a legion of zombies out of the desert.


Style matters.

That would be awesome. I can see Sunday school getting a lot more popular. Too bad Jesus failed Judas' loyalty mission.

[Darth_Trethon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

We'll have to agree to disagree but Cerberus is ruthless....they'll do anything to get the desired results and if you're in the way of something or another why be shocked they'd try to remove you? Given how large they are and how complex their operations and entaglement in pretty much everyone's business it only seems like a matter of time before Shep got in the way of something Cerberus wanted.

So will anyone else. Unless you /naively) think the other factions aren't ruthless and don't have ulterior motives?

Cerberus goal is to defeat the reapers and surive - just as everyone else goal is.
Why should anyone expect them to attack you? Just because they are "eeeebil"?

Well the difference is that no other factioon is as open about their treacherous nature and go to great lengths to maintain an image of trustwothiness.....only Cerberus would attack you that openly, hunt you down so obviously and betray you that quickly.

Plus the alliance does have some restraints....they don't perform the kinds of horrific tests and experiments that Cerberus does.

Modifié par Darth_Trethon, 14 décembre 2011 - 05:08 .

[wright1978]

I always thought TIM might likely be a major antagonist for ME3. I've got quite a few pragmatic Shepards though who see the potential of Cerberus, who would hope to salvage the organisation even if TIM has to go down. If they just go with Cerberus are evil, black and white morality that leaves no room for the nuanced grey areas that ME2 provided for i think it will be disappointing.

[naledgeborn]

wright1978 wrote...

I always thought TIM might likely be a major antagonist for ME3. I've got quite a few pragmatic Shepards though who see the potential of Cerberus, who would hope to salvage the organisation even if TIM has to go down. If they just go with Cerberus are evil, black and white morality that leaves no room for the nuanced grey areas that ME2 provided for i think it will be disappointing.

My thoughts in a nutshell.

[Darth_Trethon]

wright1978 wrote...

I always thought TIM might likely be a major antagonist for ME3. I've got quite a few pragmatic Shepards though who see the potential of Cerberus, who would hope to salvage the organisation even if TIM has to go down. If they just go with Cerberus are evil, black and white morality that leaves no room for the nuanced grey areas that ME2 provided for i think it will be disappointing.

The antagonist of the final game has been clear since the first and was the real antagonist in ME2: Harbinger, the collector general was just a puppet. Cerberus is more the oddball, thrown in to complicate things and sometimes help the plot move along.

[Dean_the_Young]

Seboist doesn't call Cerberus Bioware's plot clay for nothing.

[Umbrage_89]

I still believe there is some good in the Illusive man. Even if his methods can be somewhat deadly.

[BatmanPWNS]

Watch when TIM has the answer to defeat the Reapers while Shep will be running around like a clueless chicken.

[eye basher]

In before the lock.

[Kaiser Shepard]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

For those of you who found your place in gaming after finding Bioware, how do you feel knowing that the company you once looked up to now appears unable to produce something that even remotely resembles an RPG?

Discuss.

To make a long post and/or discussion short, this is what my disappointment with ME3 ultimately comes down to.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
So will anyone else. Unless you (naively) think the other factions aren't ruthless and don't have ulterior motives?

Cerberus goal is to defeat the reapers and surive - just as everyone else goal is.
Why should anyone expect them to attack you? Just because they are "eeeebil"?

Well the difference is that no other factioon is as open about their treacherous nature and go to great lengths to maintain an image of trustwothiness.....only Cerberus would attack you that openly, hunt you down so obviously and betray you that quickly.

Plus the alliance does have some restraints....they don't perform the kinds of horrific tests and experiments that Cerberus does.

The other factiosn aren't open about their methods and actions. They lie and obufuscate, pretend they are all nice and civil and do the same s*** as Cerberus. and they do horrible stuff, it's just that you don't see much of it, since the game focuses on Cerberus.

Cerberus are up front and honest about what they are. They don't hide their goals or motives..

As for "betray you that quickly"...not really. Think a bit what betrays mean and what Cerberus done in ME2. Don't fit son.

[MatronAdena]

I read the books, that filled in more than enough for me to not be shocked in the slightest...and even if the idea of them being indoctrinated this time ALSO makes perfect sense actually when you read the things they were playing with in retribution it's easy to see how they could have opened a gate that they couldn't close and are paying for it now.

gamewise...If you sided with them it's harder to see...but then again Cerberus as a whole entity is still hardly touched in the games as compared to the books where they are the bulk majority of it.

[Darth_Trethon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The other factiosn aren't open about their methods and actions. They lie and obufuscate, pretend they are all nice and civil and do the same s*** as Cerberus. and they do horrible stuff, it's just that you don't see much of it, since the game focuses on Cerberus.

Cerberus are up front and honest about what they are. They don't hide their goals or motives..

As for "betray you that quickly"...not really. Think a bit what betrays mean and what Cerberus done in ME2. Don't fit son.

They brought you back for a reason and at least partially you have fullfilled it but yes they DID turn on you fast and in a hurry....they sure didn't waste any seconds once you've completed your assigned task before attacking you. But yes, their actionns don't fit I'll give you that...why attack before the reapers were defeated instead of after....this makes no sense.

As for the alliance doing horrible experiments.....I don't know of anything remotely close to what cerberus has done. They had L2 implants and BAAT camps but they still don't measure. As I've said....they have more restraints....not necesarily because they want to but to maintain the image of trustworthyness.

[tetrisblock4x1]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

For those of you who found your place in the universe after joining Cerberus, how do you feel knowing that the group you once looked up to is now trying to kill you?

Discuss.

How do I feel that a fictional group is trying to kill my fictional character? I'm okay. Should have happened sooner though, would have been better than killing time doing errands for your squad while waiting for the one meaningful thing to happen at the end of ME2..

Modifié par tetrisblock4x1, 15 décembre 2011 - 01:53 .

[Nightwriter]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

One would think Cerberus would value Shepard above all else, since he seems to be able to do the impossible quite often. Killing him kinda dooms them and everyone else.

I'm sure TIM (assuming he is in his right mind) would not try to kill Shepard unless he was sure Shepard had become more of a pain than a gain.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 15 décembre 2011 - 02:49 .

[Nightwriter]

TIM's reason for bringing Shepard back were always weak, but that's a criticism that's in the past. I'm forced to accept the reasons BioWare put in TIM's mouth and move on. Having done that, I must conclude that the only in-character reason for TIM to betray Shepard whilst remaining in his right mind is that Shepard poses some kind of immediate threat to TIM's objectives.

[CerberusSoldier]

Bioware may change the story but all they did was make my Shepard even more of a Cerberus Soldier who follows his and her own rules . and if the alliance trick gets in my way well she will rot the whole time inside the SR 2 .

[DxWill10]

While I do agree wholeheartedly supporting Cerberus is silly, I would enjoy more of a moral gray area type of situation in ME3 than a 100% evil must kill faction. Things would certainly be more interesting.

Ultimately it all rides on TIM i think. Either he's going to be indoctrinated/swayed,etc to be a 100% bad saren-like antagonist, or he may serve another purpose. I think a more interesting plot line would involve something other than just a simple Saren clone villain. Or at least saving that total cross over til the end or something.

While cerberus is undoubtedly the bad guys, hopefully TIM's character will hold a little more interesting story telling.

[Medhia Nox]

The inclusion of Cerberus - at all - confuses me. Their existence beyond the "Sole Survivor" as "those crazy renegade scientists" was a mistake.

The Alliance represents "humanity" well enough - and it should have been the Alliance that commits to questionable activities - it should have been the Alliance that was pro-human, and the Alliance vs. Council which Shepard should have had to choose between.

Cerberus - to me - was always a sad little cliche of an organization. Never once did I say "Oh, they walk a grey line."

Again - like the multiple personalities of the Renegade story arc - Cerberus was a terrible mismanagement of that chosen path.

If they had never intended for the player to side with them throughout the entirety of the series... I don't think they should have ever included them - period. (something I wrote in another thread).

There should have been a Pro-Alliance Renegade AND Paragon path... and a Pro-Council Renegade AND Paragon path.

Anyway - it's not what Renegades got - and to that end, I do feel bad for that chosen arc (not for the other complaints I've seen). With what was provided - you should have received a "Cerberus rulez" story arc.

[jcolt]

maybe off topic but you'd think tim would've been smart enough to build in a failsafe switch in shepard i mean really there was no guarrantee he'd cooperate with tim

[Medhia Nox]

He claims it (using mind control) might have interfered with Shepard's "Shepardness" if I'm not mistaken.