313 réponses à ce sujet

[Porenferser]

MisterJB wrote...

Porenferser wrote...
Same for Grunt.
He is resilient and strong, but his brain, if it even exists, is smaller then an ants brain.
Wrex would kill him with blinded eyes.

Okeer implanted strategies from greatest Krogan Battlemasters in Grunt. Remember how he was familiar with the intricacies of space combat?

He said he sees unsharp pictures, but he can't do anything with it.
So its useless.

So a higher intelligence makes you a stronger squadmate? I guess it's official then; Mordin, Tali, and Liara are the strongest.

So is this thread just about muscles or what?

[Oblivious]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Porenferser wrote...

Same for Grunt.
He is resilient and strong, but his brain, if it even exists, is smaller then an ants brain.
Wrex would kill him with blinded eyes.

So a higher intelligence makes you a stronger squadmate? I guess it's official then; Mordin, Tali, and Liara are the strongest.

There are different forms of intellect, not all of them involve science and math. For example, Tali is probably the smartest squadmate ingame (arguably equal to Mordin, but considering their age difference she has more potential) yet in an actual fight she's dead. Mordin might survive longer due to STG training and experience, but as been evidenced in the suicide mission he is the weakest of your ME2 squaddies.

Then there's Liara. Due to her inexperience, age, and lack of any form of formal combat training she'd be a low-tier fighter (maybe mid-tier at best due to her biotics). But as we all know knowledge is power, and if Liara is given the time to prepare I'm sure she'd be able to use her vaste inelligence network to get information on her opponent and use her own intelligence to think of strategies to fight and defeat them.

Point is: not everything is as simple as "Ooh, Krogan big. All else puny. Krogan win."

[didymos1120]

Oblivious wrote...
 Mordin might survive longer due to STG training and experience, but as been evidenced in the suicide mission he is the weakest of your ME2 squaddies.

No, he just happened to be first on that particular priority list.  He's no worse defense-rating-wise than a lot of the other squadmates.  Even if we're supposed to take some arbitrary list in the game code as somehow reflecting how any character would "really" perform in combat, all that would show is that Mordin isn't so good on defense. Rather contradicted by his recruitment mission BTW: give him some resources, like mechs and such, and he's quite good at defensive fighting. Just ask the corpses of those two Blue Suns he hung up as a warning.

[didymos1120]

Porenferser wrote...

He said he sees unsharp pictures, but he can't do anything with it.

No, he didn't.  He said he has pictures where others have memories.  They were perfectly "sharp", but didn't provoke any real emotion in him.  He understood them intellectually just fine, however.  The only time he complained of things being unclear was when he gives you his loyalty mission, and that was physiology.

[Oblivious]

didymos1120 wrote...

Oblivious wrote...
 Mordin might survive longer due to STG training and experience, but as been evidenced in the suicide mission he is the weakest of your ME2 squaddies.

No, he just happened to be first on that particular priority list.  He's no worse defense-rating-wise than a lot of the other squadmates.  Even if we're supposed to take some arbitrary list in the game code as somehow reflecting how any character would "really" perform in combat, all that would show is that Mordin isn't so good on defense. Rather contradicted by his recruitment mission BTW: give him some resources, like mechs and such, and he's quite good at defensive fighting. Just ask the corpses of those two Blue Suns he hung up as a warning.

I'm not saying he's a pushover mind you, it's obvious nobody on the Normandy, not even Joker who is a cripple, is a pushover. The dude is ex-STG and an experienced killer. But compared to the "perfect" Miss Lawson, the "black-ops" Mr Taylor, the insane convict, an assassin, a justicar, the perfect Krogan, a robot, and Team Dextro it's obvious that in a straight up 1v1 fight Mordin is the weakest link. He was recruited for his knowledge after all, everyone else were recruited for their combat skills.

Once again, that's not to say he's weak. He's like Krillin from Dragon Ball Z. Dude is on a completely inhuman level in terms of power, but when compared to his comrades he isn't even a threat.

[100k]

Dariustwinblade wrote...

Jacks is the strongest HUMAN biotic.... After Shepard.


And even the best human biotics comes of as average compared to the best of the Asari.

Samara and Liara are superior to Jack. In both experience and capability.

I seriously doubt that. Don't get me wrong, Liara's a great biotic, but she's not on Jack's power level. Samara has better pure talent, but once again, she's just not the powerhouse that Jack is. 

Put it this way:

6. Kaiden = above asari average talent (I believe Liara makes a comment that he has skills to rival a highly trained asari).

5. Shepard = asari commando level talent (slightly below Liara).

4. Liara + Vasir + Shiala = high asari commando level.

3. Aria + Morinth = highest commado level. Few can match them.

2. Jack = high matriarch power, but Kaiden or Jacob level control (being human).

1. Samara = slightly less than matriarch level of power, and = matriarch level if Cadeo Justicar.

In the end skill > power, so Samara is definitely more dangerous, but Jack's pure power is currently unrivaled. Zero is a complete and utter freak of nature. 

Modifié par 100k, 17 décembre 2011 - 02:53 .

[Oblivious]

I don't know if Jack is truly as great as you make her out to be 100k. The only evidence we have for her skill is her attacking anything that breathes with her biotics. You use destructive power as a point as to why she is so powerful. Well a child throwing a tantrum can easily destroy a room in a few seconds and will injure anybody who tries to control it out of pure rage. An angry adult, however, will usually take out his/her frustration on the point of its anger, leaving the rest of the room spotless. The child was more destructive and uncontrollable, harming friend and foe alike. Does that make the child more dangerous or powerful than an adult?

Point is, I agree Jack is a powerful biotic, on a level above everyone else. But I have no reason to believe she is more powerful than Morinth, Aria, or even Liara for that matter. Just my opinion, of course.

[Porenferser]

I think even Miranda could beat Jack.
Like I said before, it is not all about pure power, but also about strategie and intelligence.

Modifié par Porenferser, 17 décembre 2011 - 09:43 .

[100k]

Oblivious wrote...

I don't know if Jack is truly as great as you make her out to be 100k. The only evidence we have for her skill is her attacking anything that breathes with her biotics. You use destructive power as a point as to why she is so powerful. Well a child throwing a tantrum can easily destroy a room in a few seconds and will injure anybody who tries to control it out of pure rage. An angry adult, however, will usually take out his/her frustration on the point of its anger, leaving the rest of the room spotless. The child was more destructive and uncontrollable, harming friend and foe alike. Does that make the child more dangerous or powerful than an adult?

Point is, I agree Jack is a powerful biotic, on a level above everyone else. But I have no reason to believe she is more powerful than Morinth, Aria, or even Liara for that matter. Just my opinion, of course.

We know that Jack had the power to destroy, not only an entire prison, but an space station as well. I'd like to see Liara pull that off.

[Random citizen]

Luc0s wrote...

100k wrote...

In the end skill > power, so Samara is definitely more dangerous, but Jack's pure power is currently unrivaled. Zero is a complete and utter freak of nature. 

I think Samara and Jack are evenly matched when it comes to boitic powers.


I think a fight between Samara and Jack would take a longgggggggggg time but I think in the end Samara would win from Jack.

I think the odds would seem to be in favour of Samara, true, but you never know. If Jack connects with a insane biotic attac or two first, it might be all over. If the situation does not call for anything but brute force, I think Samara might be in serious trouble. Fights are as much about favorable cirumstances as they are about skill and power. Thats why all the team-members has a chance and thats why all the team members might have better odds then the others given a specific setting.

[SNascimento]

Luc0s wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

Miranda.
.
She has advance biotics, tech powers, skill, training and experience.

Miranda? Advanced biotics? Don't make me laugh.


Jack and Samara > Miranda in biotics.

Tali and Legion > Miranda in tech.



No, the winner will be Wrex, no doubt about it.

.
Yes, she has advance biotics, it's said more than once. 
.
But I agree with your others two statements. Both Jack and Samara have more powerful biotics, and both Tali and Legion are better tech experts (which doesn't necessary translate to better use of tech as a offensive asset, though). I would never even start to argue about this.
.
My points has always been how Miranda is resourceful, more than any other squadmate. In a real life scenario that counts more than anything. Let me copy the my earlier post:
.
.

One thing that really sums up what I think about Miranda is her suicide mission description: "Genetically manufactured to be superior in every way, she can move effortlessly from formidable biotic and superior soldier to brilliant tactician and vigilant guardian."
.
This is the most important thing a soldier can have: resourcefulness. And no other squadmate Shepard has ever had is more resourceful than Miranda. This is, in shor,t why I think she is the most effective squadmate of all.
.
Not to mention all the comments of other people in the Mass Effect universe that support this idea: The Shadow Broker says how her death (and Shepard's) will criple Cerberus... he acknowledge her abilities and would even try to recruite her after he destroyed Cerberus (good luck with that, SB). Kasumi also states Miranda is the last person she wants to ****** off.
.
Not to mention her preponderant role in Cerberus, she is likely the most effective agent Cerberus had, and that says A LOT 

Modifié par SNascimento, 17 décembre 2011 - 12:22 .

[Yezdigerd]

100k wrote...

I seriously doubt that. Don't get me wrong, Liara's a great biotic, but she's not on Jack's power level. Samara has better pure talent, but once again, she's just not the powerhouse that Jack is.

I would take out Jack with Liara's power suite 150 times out of 100 in ME2, and Liara lost powers from ME1.

[Porenferser]

100k wrote...

Oblivious wrote...

I don't know if Jack is truly as great as you make her out to be 100k. The only evidence we have for her skill is her attacking anything that breathes with her biotics. You use destructive power as a point as to why she is so powerful. Well a child throwing a tantrum can easily destroy a room in a few seconds and will injure anybody who tries to control it out of pure rage. An angry adult, however, will usually take out his/her frustration on the point of its anger, leaving the rest of the room spotless. The child was more destructive and uncontrollable, harming friend and foe alike. Does that make the child more dangerous or powerful than an adult?

Point is, I agree Jack is a powerful biotic, on a level above everyone else. But I have no reason to believe she is more powerful than Morinth, Aria, or even Liara for that matter. Just my opinion, of course.

We know that Jack had the power to destroy, not only an entire prison, but an space station as well. I'd like to see Liara pull that off.

She didn't blow it up with biotic, she directed it into a moon, so thats an invalid agument.

[Burneye Is God]

Friera wrote...

Hi,

I was thinking the other day. If all the squad members from ME1 and 2 had a showdown - kinda like Tekken - who would actually be the strongest? (Shepard is not included)
Who would be the standing champion?

i'd go with miranda all day long

[Guanxi]

It appears the consensus is Wrex.

In my view this is correct; Wrex is the strongest squadmate because he has both IMMUNITY and BARRIER. Grunt might have more endurance and even be physically stronger but you don't need as much endurance when you are totally physically impervious to damage (at least for a time) and have barrier as a back up combined with his battlemaster-grade biotics AND soldier-grade weaponry push him over the top in any confrontation in my mind. Wrex has no weaknessness... he's the single most overpower character in the series.

Honerable mention; Thane's health will hamper his performance and stealth only works until you've been caught. Liara has the best biotics in the series imo (Samara: Pull, Throw, Reave vs Singularity, Stasis, Warp = no brainer). Legion is suseptable to AI hacking as long as other techs are on the battlefield and aside from Geth Shield Boost he has low health/endurnace. Jacks biotics < Liara and Liara now has Warp Ammo in ME3.

Modifié par Guanxi, 17 décembre 2011 - 05:27 .

[oldorcguy]

Wrex-
-Biotic
-Krogan
-Old Krogan
-Took down a maw
-ex-Merc (seen everything, fought everything, killed everything)

Also-
-Samara's combat experience is only within Asari space (limited exposure to non-Asari/biotic opponents) and most of it is most likely against non-soldier/merc opponents.
-Tali could hack Legion, but that also means Legion could hack Tali (enviro suit, gear, drone, etc)
-Jack- lacks discipline; talent/ability only goes so far
-Miranda- please

[slimgrin]

I don't see how Wrex could beat Samara, whose Biotics and experience would rule the day. From both a lore and gameplay standpoint I thought Jack had the most powerful Biotics.

I still put Miranda up there due to her well rounded skills and the fact that she probably has genius level intelligence.

And aren't Asari commandos considered the most deadly in the galaxy? If thats where Samara got her training, 1000 yrs of it..

Modifié par slimgrin, 17 décembre 2011 - 05:06 .

[Guanxi]

slimgrin wrote...

I don't see how Wrex could beat Samara, whose Biotics and experience would rule the day. From both a lore and gameplay standpoint I thought Jack had the most powerful Biotics.

I still put Miranda up there due to her well rounded skills and the fact that she probably has genius level intelligence.

And aren't Asari commandos considered the most deadly in the galaxy? If thats where Samara got her training, 1000 yrs of it..

Reave might take care of his Barrier but you can't Reave Immunity... and his health regenerates. What else does that leave her with... pull and throw? Good luck with that.

Modifié par Guanxi, 17 décembre 2011 - 05:16 .

[SNascimento]

Luc0s wrote...
Nice description, but in practice she isn't so "superior" at all.

If you send Miranda in the shaft as tech-expert, she fails and one of your crew members dies.
If you let Miranda provide the biotic shield when you go through the seeker swarm, she fails and one of your crew members dies.

Miranda is a jack-of-all-trades, but she's pretty mediocre at everything she does. The only thing she seems good at is being a leader, based on the fact that when you let Miranda lead the 2nd fire-team in the Suicide Mission, she actually succeeds.

.
It's written, you can't say it doesn't matter. And I have already said, Miranda is not more powerful Biotic than Samara/Jack or have superior tech skills than Tali/Legion
.
But the most important thing is, you are right, Miranda is the jack-of-all-trades, that is why I'm saying she is the best squadmates Shepard ever commanded. You are just dead wrong when you say she is mediocre in everything, it is the opposite, she is great in everything. That is why I'm defending her. If you want to prove me wrong, you have to come with facts, not just saying x is better than her in y. 

Luc0s wrote...
And in what way do you think Miranda is resourceful, or say: more resourceful than other squad members? I really don't see how Miranda is more resourceful than Liara for example.

.
She is a better soldier, smarter, have access to better tech powers, more resilient and better trained.
.

Luc0s wrote...
The Shadow Broker says EXACTLY the same about Jacob. So NOPE, he doesn't acknowledge Miranda (any more than he acknowledges Jacob).

And what Kasumi says doesn't say anything about Miranda's skills. I always understood that Kasumi's comment was directed towards Miranda's personality. She's a true femme fatale, a sneaky b*tch you don't want to ****** off.

.
You are right, he says the same thing about Jacob, which is a surprise, either Jacob is more important to Cerberus than I think (which I don't believe) or the SB is thinking Shepard's death will have a bigger impact on Cerberus than I was led to believe (probably). 
.
But you can see in thet dossier how SB has high opinions of Miranda, let me quote an earlier post: 
.

SNascimento wrote...
Does he? That is surprising. I guess I never brought Jacob along...
.
But the dossier are very different:
.
Jacob: Ex-Alliance soldier. Biotic training. Despite solid service history, clearly placed on Shepard's team primarily for stabilizing elements of personality.
.
Miranda: Cerberus Officer. Efficient, ruthless, obsessed with human dominance. Possible recruitment candidate after Illusive Man's assassination and destruction of Cerberus.

.
After this, I can't see anyone arguing about SB respect for Miranda abilities. 
.
And about Kasumi, that's a possibility. More likely is a combination of both. Her personality and her abilities. 
.

Luc0s wrote... 
HAHA, no, that DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING, since Cerberus isn't exactly effective at all. 50% of Cerberus' succes is thanks to Shepard and he isn't even a Cerberus agent! So being one of Cerberus' mosts effective agents doesn't say much.

.
Well, that is a error of judgement from you. Cerberus is highly effective organization. The Lazarus project was a huge success, so was the Normandy SR2 and EDI.
.
Saying you don't think that is much is like saying being a Spectre doesn't prove a individual abilities. 

Modifié par SNascimento, 17 décembre 2011 - 05:16 .

[slimgrin]

We have to decide whether we are judging lore or actual gameplay. If it's gameplay, Miranda wins hands down.

I have a humble request to Stanly or Chris: ask the writers. It would be cool to see if they have decided on this. That will settle it.

Modifié par slimgrin, 17 décembre 2011 - 05:19 .