313 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

Someone With Mass wrote...
Yeah. Sure.

Ever seen The Thin Red Line?

Nick Nolte plays a colonel that's willing to sacrifice all his men to take a small hill from the Japanese during WWII. It goes so bad that his men refuses to obey his orders since he's just sending them to their deaths, while they choose follow a captain who shows compassion and care for his men. The same captain also considered the options which didn't involve shoving people into a field of gunfire and more than likely get them killed.

Sure, he had a hard time accepting the fact that some of his men were ultimately going to die, but at least he didn't give them all up the second it didn't look so good.

First of all, you should make a distinction between a small hill and destroying the Collectors. Maybe that hill was not worth the lifes of those men but, in ME2, it's the entire human race that is at stake.

Second, Miranda does not, needlessly, send people to her death. She did not tell the unarmed crew to go ahead of them and serve as cannon fodder. If leading the Fire Team, she also does not leave Shepard's team behind to slow the Collectors.
She cares for her people but she also knows that if they do not destroy the Collectors, every human, including the SR2 crew, migth as well be dead.

Oh, and by the way. It was so smart by Miranda to shoot Wilson. We could have interrogated him to find out his motive and how he did what he did so we can prevent future accidents like that, but that would have been a good thing.

You are assuming that she doesn't know more than she told Shepard.

Yeah, I'd rather take Garrus. At least I know he's a successful leader.

And no, what happened to his team on Omega wasn't because of him, it was because one of his men betrayed him. He was doing pretty good too.

Then, by that logic, what happened on the Lazarus station was not Miranda's fault. One of her people betrayed her.
Oh, but she should have seen it coming.
So should have Garrus.

[SNascimento]

100k wrote...

The dossier says the same thing for Jacob, proof that her abilites aren't the only powerhouse Cerberus posseses. 

.
Does he? That is surprising. I guess I never brought Jacob along...
.
But the dossier are very different:
.
Jacob: Ex-Alliance soldier. Biotic training. Despite solid service history, clearly placed on Shepard's team primarily for stabilizing elements of personality.
.
Miranda: Cerberus Officer. Efficient, ruthless, obsessed with human dominance. Possible recruitment candidate after Illusive Man's assassination and destruction of Cerberus.

Modifié par SNascimento, 14 décembre 2011 - 11:20 .

[DiebytheSword]

100k wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...


How do you quantify "most"?  I have seen a number of Asari dancers, diplomats and merchants, many of whom may not have had military training, and only training in biotics use.  While I agree that Liara has changed much from ME1 to ME3, and is often sold shorter than she should be, saying that most Asari are combat trained is a stretch wihtout some sort of proof from the game.

Turians and Krogan can sincerely have that said of them, perhaps even Quarian because of the nature of their existance, but Asari . . . I don't know.

According to matriach Athyeta, most asari start out their lives doing one of two things-- fighting in merc groups, or stripping. Of course, this isn't ALL asari, but I don't see Liara NOT learning combat methods early on when a huge percentage of her people do. And combine that with her status as the daughter of a matriarch, and it seems fairly clear that she got the best training and education an asari could hope for.

http://masseffect.wi...i/Asari#Culture

http://masseffect.wi.../Asari#Military

There is nothing there to suggest that most, or indeed anything approaching 50% of the Asari join their military.  I take no exception to Liara being both combat trained before ME1 and being actually good at it (thank you Krogan grandfather influence) in ME2 & 3, infact, I agree with you that Liara is most certainly of the caliber needed to journey with a Spectre. 

I take exception to this idea that most (greater than 50%) of the Asari are both military or paramilitary trained and/or privately tutored in self defense.  Even the relatively warlike Humans are no where near that number.

[100k]

LIAR! LIIIIIIIIIAAAAAAAAAAAR!

[DoNotTrololo]

I thought that's what spoiler alerts were for =O ? Are you suggesting I've been told...




LIES AND PROPAGANDA?!

[Someone With Mass]

MisterJB wrote...
Then, by that logic, what happened on the Lazarus station was not Miranda's fault. One of her people betrayed her.
Oh, but she should have seen it coming.
So should have Garrus.

If she hadn't let him sneak off to the security system, which is in another part of the station, then yes. She could have very well prevented that whole disaster from happening.

You are assuming that she doesn't know more than she told Shepard.

Oh, that's such a good reason to trust her.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 14 décembre 2011 - 11:27 .

[MisterJB]

Someone With Mass wrote...

MisterJB wrote...
Then, by that logic, what happened on the Lazarus station was not Miranda's fault. One of her people betrayed her.
Oh, but she should have seen it coming.
So should have Garrus.

If she hadn't let him sneak off to the security system, which is in another part of the station, then yes. She could have very well prevented that whole disaster from happening.

And if Garrus hadn't left his base and went to the location Sidonis told him about, which is in another part of the station, then he could have prevented his whole team from dying.

[100k]

DiebytheSword wrote...

100k wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...


How do you quantify "most"?  I have seen a number of Asari dancers, diplomats and merchants, many of whom may not have had military training, and only training in biotics use.  While I agree that Liara has changed much from ME1 to ME3, and is often sold shorter than she should be, saying that most Asari are combat trained is a stretch wihtout some sort of proof from the game.

Turians and Krogan can sincerely have that said of them, perhaps even Quarian because of the nature of their existance, but Asari . . . I don't know.

According to matriach Athyeta, most asari start out their lives doing one of two things-- fighting in merc groups, or stripping. Of course, this isn't ALL asari, but I don't see Liara NOT learning combat methods early on when a huge percentage of her people do. And combine that with her status as the daughter of a matriarch, and it seems fairly clear that she got the best training and education an asari could hope for.

http://masseffect.wi...i/Asari#Culture

http://masseffect.wi.../Asari#Military

There is nothing there to suggest that most, or indeed anything approaching 50% of the Asari join their military.  I take no exception to Liara being both combat trained before ME1 and being actually good at it (thank you Krogan grandfather influence) in ME2 & 3, infact, I agree with you that Liara is most certainly of the caliber needed to journey with a Spectre. 

I take exception to this idea that most (greater than 50%) of the Asari are both military or paramilitary trained and/or privately tutored in self defense.  Even the relatively warlike Humans are no where near that number.

-Humans haven't been around as long as asari
-In a huge galaxy, finding work as anything other than a soldier/stripper makes sense, as violence + sex has been with most cultures, and will always be in high demand. 
-Atheyta heavily implies that this is what most asari start out their lives doing. Like human teenagers who work fast food. 

[HK-90210]

Someone With Mass wrote...

MisterJB wrote...
Yes, Miranda is willing to sacrifice people in order to complete the mission. As much as it might hurt her, she does it and that's the trait of a good leader.

Yeah. Sure.

Ever seen The Thin Red Line?

Nick Nolte plays a colonel that's willing to sacrifice all his men to take a small hill from the Japanese during WWII. It goes so bad that his men refuses to obey his orders since he's just sending them to their deaths, while they choose follow a captain who shows compassion and care for his men. The same captain also considered the options which didn't involve shoving people into a field of gunfire and more than likely get them killed.

Sure, he had a hard time accepting the fact that some of his men were ultimately going to die, but at least he didn't give them all up the second it didn't look so good.

One problem with your senario: Nolte wasn't with his men at the time, nor was he directly observing the battlefield. If this senario were to be put in ME, the Illusive Man would be Nolte, while Shepard or (Insert leadership squadmate here) would be the captain. I would think Miranda's grasp of battlefield tactics would make it very clear to her that to make the charge would be a tactical blunder, so she wouldn't do it. Miranda is more willing to sacrifice her people to achieve the objective than any other squadmate, but that does not mean that she would do it in a stupid fashion. In my opinion, she is the best command canidate. This is no slight against either Jacob or Garrus, as they both serve admirably(although as much as I like Jacob, I never thought he was quite as logical a squad leader).

Also, Thin Red Line sucks. IMO.

Modifié par CastonFolarus, 14 décembre 2011 - 11:29 .

[DiebytheSword]

100k wrote...

LIAR! LIIIIIIIIIAAAAAAAAAAAR!

Was that aimed at me?  Or are you still formulating an argument where the Asari went from peacenik social influence peddlers to savage war maidens feared for their huge army? 

*edit*

Never mind I see you still cling to a bar tender's dialogue rather than two codex entries and the general feel of the race as been implied by nearly every other character who comments on Asari culture.

Fast food indeed.  I'm off to eat something more satisfying than this argument.

Modifié par DiebytheSword, 14 décembre 2011 - 11:31 .

[HK-90210]

100k wrote...

LIAR! LIIIIIIIIIAAAAAAAAAAAR!

Billy Crystal: Shut up, @#$%!
Carol Kane: I'm not a @#$%, I'm your wife! And after what you just said, I'm not even sure I want to be that anymore!
Billy Crystal: You've never had it so good!

[Another_Golden_Dragon]

The strongest member of the squad (and remember, leaders are members, too) in ME 3 is None other than:

COMMANDER SHEPARD!!!

Seriously. If any other squadmember falls, Shepard can press a button and the member(s) get up and resume fighting. But if Shepard falls, it's CRITICAL MISSION FAILURE. The galaxy falls apart if Shepard kicks the bucket.

[Someone With Mass]

MisterJB wrote...
And if Garrus hadn't left his base and went to the location Sidonis told him about, which is in another part of the station, then he could have prevented his whole team from dying.

Wilson had nothing to do in the part of the station he was in, since he's supposed to be in the medical labs.

Sidonis baited Garrus with a false job.

There's a difference.

[Soccer FeverMan]

Nanuzsh wrote...
*****SPOILER*****
Take out the shadow broker singlehandedle even without shepards help.

******SPOILER*****

....wow um thats really stupid i really hope they made a good story or explanations for it because thats complete horsesh*t, Liara's character progression is so flawed...

Anyway my bet goes to Wrex or Samara

plus can somebody please explain to me how Miranda could possibly kill Wrex.

[therussianviking]

1. Samara. 2. Wrex. 3. Zaeed.

[Nashiktal]

Someone With Mass wrote...

MisterJB wrote...
And if Garrus hadn't left his base and went to the location Sidonis told him about, which is in another part of the station, then he could have prevented his whole team from dying.

Wilson had nothing to do in the part of the station he was in, since he's supposed to be in the medical labs.

Sidonis baited Garrus with a false job.

There's a difference.

Yeah the biological lab tech snnooping around the sexurity hub should have raised suspicions, but come to think of it that falls on jacob too..

[slimgrin]

Samara is the oldest and most experienced warrior ( maybe I'm wrong...how old is Wrex?) and she has with that some of the most powerful biotics. She's more dangerous than anyone else. Miranda is a close second due to her well rounded skills and advanced genes and intelligence.

Modifié par slimgrin, 15 décembre 2011 - 03:12 .

[Bluko]

Wrex wins in all categories. He's the toughest, probably one of the smartest, and he has Biotics to back-up all his Kroganess. He might lack technical abilites, but why hack the door when you can just rip it open?

Though I would not want to fight Zaeed or Samara either.

[Night Wraith]

Bluko wrote...

Wrex wins in all categories. He's the toughest, probably one of the smartest, and he has Biotics to back-up all his Kroganess. He might lack technical abilites, but why hack the door when you can just rip it open?

Though I would not want to fight Zaeed or Samara either.

Indeed with Samara a close second.  I have yet to see a good enough reason to place anyone else in the same tier.  However this is all subjective anyway.

[1136342t54_]

slimgrin wrote...

Samara is the oldest and most experienced warrior ( maybe I'm wrong...how old is Wrex?) and she has with that some of the most powerful biotics. She's more dangerous than anyone else. Miranda is a close second due to her well rounded skills and advanced genes and intelligence.

]

Wrex could easily by twice as old as Samara. Wrex is 1500 years old.

[1136342t54_]

Darth_Trethon wrote...
He didn't resist, he hadn't been attacked yet....he himself admitted the virus was being prepared to be used on the geth but it had not yet been. As for Tali....she can figure out any mechanism including Legion...you grossly underestimate her capabilities.

That is a no limites fallacy. Tali cannot figure out anything if that were true the Geth collective would have been hacked already. Tali is a genius in engineering but she is not better than a AI. Even Legion's description on the Suicide mission easily puts him on par or above Tali in hacking ability.

[D.Kain]

Morinth is the strongest. =P