36 réponses à ce sujet

[yesikareyes]

Now, I know I'll be getting negative reactions over this but okay here I go... I just finished Dragon Age Origins and all its DLCs recently. It was the most recent Bioware game I've played because I used to play only on my Xbox 360 and I found Origins to be extremely complicated so I just played Dragon Age 2 and the Mass Effect series instead. So now, that I have given Origins a go (this time on my MAC)... it was much easier and I loved it to death. I bought all the DLCs right after my first playthrough. Consumer satisfied... check!

Okay, so the reason why I'm upset is because I read an article where Bioware claimed that The Warden's story is "OVER". I do not understand, because I remember reading the epilogues that mentioned that yes "The Warden" has indeed vanished YET his/her tale is far from over? I mean I would be so pissed if Mass Effect 3 did that in the end and said Oh Shepard disappeard so new character for the next game!!! But then again, I am just a fan I guess there's really no point in voicing this out yet I would like to know what other people think about this. I just wanted a proper conclusion, you know! I at least wanted to see what happened to The Warden based on my decisions from Origins. What about the consequences on my Warden's relationship with his LI if he chose to do the ritual?

Okay, I spoke my thoughts. Here is the article that mentions The Warden's story is "over" btw.

http://www.joystiq.c...-age-dlc-and-3/

[Shinobu]

I'd love the Warden to return. Sorry to break it to you, but Shepard's story will also be "over" at the end of ME3.

[jbrand2002uk]

Well while I'm no fan of Origins and was huuuugely narked off at many of the flaws in the game including the shoddy combat and the generic story at some point the Wardens story is over I mean come on after becoming a grey you'd have at best 30 years to live before you either died or turned into some kind of darkspawn/Warden hybrid like the commander of the grey Larrius from Corephyeus's prison. Besides BW have made it quite clear that the story of the Warden from DAO is only one of many that will be told so it had to happen eventually

[yesikareyes]

Oh I know that Shepard's story is over by ME3! I'm just emphasizing that at least Shepard's departure will be epic and not like just some text on the epilogue that says "The Warden disappeared...". Well I hope they make the features for Dragon Age 3 epic cause I really don't want to use Hawke again!

[DreamwareStudio]

Shepard's story has gone on for three iterations, correct?  I would say three is the magic number, and a good place to end.

The problems with the Warden and DA:O...

DA:O was an epic game, but it lost its lead designer (Knowles). His replacement (Laidlaw) has different ideas on RPGs and the direction in which the DA franchise should go. This despite the sales and customers having a different take.

So we have a game that millions of people loved, a group of characters millions of people found endearing, and a dead-end at which those millions of people arrived much too soon.

What is interesting is this. In business, the first rule of success is the customer is always right. Yet, in the gaming industry this is not always the case. Development studios have taken the stance that Laidlaw and Bioware/EA are taking with the DA series before now. What happened? The development studios eventually went out of business. Though going out of business was for many reasons, losing customers was certainly a major contributing factor. This won't happen with Bioware/EA at least for the foreseeable future because they have so many ships afloat, but that attitude "we're the developer, we're right and don't care what everyone else wants" can certainly kill a franchise.

Judging by what I've seen on the DA 2 forums and disappointing DA 2 sales, the Dragon Age series is on weakening legs. We'll see with Dragon Age 3 if they can make a comeback. I believe that game is do or die. If Bioware/EA listens to their customers and puts time, effort, and love into DA 3 rather than rush it out the door, the DA series may rebound. If not, it's probably done.

It is really too bad the Warden seems to have been abandoned after only one game.

Modifié par google_calasade, 14 décembre 2011 - 11:46 .

[yesikareyes]

^THIS

You couldn't have said it better. I saw The Warden as more of the multi-game type like Shepard he has a 3 game story-arc and although it's sad, I feel satisfied but this after just one game! I'm not grieving for just The Warden but the whole dynamic with Alistair, Leliana and etc... I know I heard that they will make appearances but it's just not the same. Please don't tell me for every new game there is a new character! Give us at least two games with the character, jeez.

[jbrand2002uk]

You forget that with ME the main enemy is the Reapers/Reavers whatever and they arnt defeated at the end of ME1 plus Shepard doesnt belong to an Organization akin to the Grey Wardens by the end of DAO the Blight is stopped and because the Wardens are a one trick pony with only 1 purpose which was accomplished at the end of DAO there was no need for the Warden to be a protagonist beyond DAO whereas Hawke could go on indefinatley as he/she doesn't belong to an organization with such a limited scope as the Warden does.

[DreamwareStudio]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

You forget that with ME the main enemy is the Reapers/Reavers whatever and they arnt defeated at the end of ME1 plus Shepard doesnt belong to an Organization akin to the Grey Wardens by the end of DAO the Blight is stopped and because the Wardens are a one trick pony with only 1 purpose which was accomplished at the end of DAO there was no need for the Warden to be a protagonist beyond DAO whereas Hawke could go on indefinatley as he/she doesn't belong to an organization with such a limited scope as the Warden does.

No, I did not forget that.  My point was they should extend the Warden's shelf life because of the demand.  Come up with a new or different type of Blight.  Better yet, invent a new enemy and multi-purpose the Wardens against a foe decidely more interesting and intelligent than the Darkspawn.  Whether you want to include old or new NPCs (ala Baldur's Gate 2) is up to you.  We're working in fantasy.  Say you opted to let the Warden die in Origins.  Who said he can't be resurrected?  If the Darkspawn can imbue the spirit of an old god into an archedemon, why not? Maybe he could come up not quite human after his death.  That would be an interesting twist.  Basically, what I'm saying is Bioware/EA should do whatever it takes to keep the majority of their customers happy.

Whle I or you or someone else may not agree, the fact is that DA 2 is a blackspot on Bioware/EA.  Hawke is part of that blackspot.  As long as they continue in that vein, Bioware/EA will not recover most of the customers they lost.   DA 2 had limited sales, and a good portion of those were from pre-orders of Origins' fans who won't be returning to see if the game has improved as long as Hawke is involved.  Those numbers of lost customers (many who were loyal Bioware customers for several years) will only carry more impact with time.  Why?  Because those customers will be slamming Bioware/EA rather than passing positive word-of-mouth advertising (the most precious because it is the most effective as well as free).

The window for prolonged success is surprisingly short for a franchise.  Pass up a window, neglect the fanbase and go in a totally different direction is peril, as gaming history has already proven.

Modifié par google_calasade, 15 décembre 2011 - 02:23 .

[Jerrybnsn]

According to the article, Morrigan, Leliana, Flemeth and a few others will continue into the further adventurs of Dragon Age, but my Warden (me), won't be. Why?  I agree that it's upsetting. I want to continue being the main character in this series. Considering why it's called "Dragon Age", my Warden (me), the most important person in the game, should be out fighting darkspawn and dragons. This is why DA2 lost 2/3 of its customers.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 16 décembre 2011 - 07:35 .

[Bayz]

I was going to reply something having to do with the thread...but I will just advise you a cold shower instead, the Warden is gone get over it.

Dunno why people would like to play exactly the same character over and over and over and over...

I mean if it were another Warden it would bug me less but the exact same? Why?

Modifié par Bayz, 16 décembre 2011 - 08:56 .

[Klidi]

Because we want to have some conclusion to the story? Because DA2 ends 6 years after the Blight, so Warden should still be alive? Because we see that there are strange things going on that concern Wardens (appearance of Grey in Kirkwall, research in Deep Roads, etc.) - so why it couldn't include The Hero?

Because we would like to have a choice to play the Warden, Hawke or a new character?

There are many reasons. Why is the only option 'it's over, get over it'?

Well I know for sure - after disappointment with DA2 I'm not buying DA3 until I'm sure it's not just another new unfinished story that makes characters of the previous two completely OOC (and calls it 'character development'), ignores all the choices and changes the lore by whim.

[Bayz]

We saw the conclusion of the history. He\\she dissapeared which doesn't force Bioware into taking one single route of what happened and allows for all the players choices to happen.

So People who decided to "sacrifice themselves for Ferelden" have their space, people who decided to "Go out with Morrigan on Witch hunt" have theirs and so...

It is a matter of stopping retcons to happen ****ing everywhere, there were several choices to finish the history, you didn't choose any, make up one yourself and live happy with it.

Time for the history to move on.

Modifié par Bayz, 16 décembre 2011 - 09:20 .

[Klidi]

As I said, I'd like to have a choice. And I still hope beyond hope that Bioware will make that choice possible. If not... Well. I will live happily... without DA3. *shrugs*.

[yesikareyes]

Klidi wrote...

Because we want to have some conclusion to the story? Because DA2 ends 6 years after the Blight, so Warden should still be alive? Because we see that there are strange things going on that concern Wardens (appearance of Grey in Kirkwall, research in Deep Roads, etc.) - so why it couldn't include The Hero?

Because we would like to have a choice to play the Warden, Hawke or a new character?

There are many reasons. Why is the only option 'it's over, get over it'?

Well I know for sure - after disappointment with DA2 I'm not buying DA3 until I'm sure it's not just another new unfinished story that makes characters of the previous two completely OOC (and calls it 'character development'), ignores all the choices and changes the lore by whim.

Thank you at least someone understands! Yeah I know that there are endings where The Warden does the sacrifice or runs away with Morrigan but there are also endings where the warden is king/queen or adventuring with his LI. It's like saying that just because theres ONE ending where Shepard dies in ME2 does not mean it is over. Well, I accept if the Warden won't be a playable character but I just wish there would be a proper conclusion which I think Bioware will give us. How could they not give closure to the players if their warden fathered an old god baby?? I think that's a notion far from concluding it's over. Besides, it did say in the epilogue that "his/her tale has not yet ended". So while we might not play our beloved Warden, I hope and believe that we will get closure for our past characters.

[Bayz]

yesikareyes wrote...

Thank you at least someone understands! Yeah I know that there are endings where The Warden does the sacrifice or runs away with Morrigan but there are also endings where the warden is king/queen or adventuring with his LI. It's like saying that just because theres ONE ending where Shepard dies in ME2 does not mean it is over. Well, I accept if the Warden won't be a playable character but I just wish there would be a proper conclusion which I think Bioware will give us. How could they not give closure to the players if their warden fathered an old god baby?? I think that's a notion far from concluding it's over. Besides, it did say in the epilogue that "his/her tale has not yet ended". So while we might not play our beloved Warden, I hope and believe that we will get closure for our past characters.

A proper concIusion to the ones that didn't choose any of that I can accept, for the King\\Queen one they lived happily ever after until they dissapeared. The epilogue of what? after that I remind you that several DLC came out am I right?

[yesikareyes]

The epilogue of the warden in awakening, it did mention something along those lines but what I don't understand though that how come it mentions that the warden disappeared? but isn't awakening supposedly before witch hunt?

[Bayz]

That's it. Awakening is juts after origins and before the other DLC. His\\her tale has not ended because it continued in the DLC, and finished or not depending on your choices there.

[DreamwareStudio]

Bayz wrote...

I was going to reply something having to do with the thread...but I will just advise you a cold shower instead, the Warden is gone get over it.

Dunno why people would like to play exactly the same character over and over and over and over...

I mean if it were another Warden it would bug me less but the exact same? Why?

I don't think people want to play the same character over and over and over and over.  I do think, judging by what I've read, that people want more than a one and done with the Warden.  It's too premature.  I would definitely like a sequel or perhaps a trilogy.

[yesikareyes]

google_calasade wrote...

I don't think people want to play the same character over and over and over and over.  I do think, judging by what I've read, that people want more than a one and done with the Warden.  It's too premature.  I would definitely like a sequel or perhaps a trilogy.

Yes, that is what I mean!!

[Bayz]

google_calasade wrote...

I don't think people want to play the same character over and over and over and over.  I do think, judging by what I've read, that people want more than a one and done with the Warden.  It's too premature.  I would definitely like a sequel or perhaps a trilogy.

yesikareyes wrote...

Okay, so the reason why I'm upset is
because I read an article where Bioware claimed that The Warden's story
is "OVER". I do not understand, because I remember reading the epilogues
that mentioned that yes "The Warden" has indeed vanished YET his/her
tale is far from over? I mean I would be so pissed if Mass Effect 3 did
that in the end and said Oh Shepard disappeard so new character for the
next game!!! But then again, I am just a fan I guess there's really
no point in voicing this out yet I would like to know what other people
think about this. I just wanted a proper conclusion, you know! I at
least wanted to see what happened to The Warden based on my decisions
from Origins. What about the consequences on my Warden's relationship
with his LI if he chose to do the ritual?

Okay, I spoke my thoughts. Here is the article that mentions The Warden's story is "over" btw.

http://www.joystiq.c...-age-dlc-and-3/

Might have misunderstood her point there, might not

And a lot of others making the point that they want to play with it. When you point out that they could just rebuild the Warden they answer "ya bro but duhh...what happens wiz ma loot?" which is at what it is reduced, people wanting to play an über character that starts at level 35 with all the stuff from Golems...which in my case will involve an úber mage that just slaughtered everything on sight and had a ridiculous mana regeneration that allowed her to cast 9 spells on a row as a machine gun without having spent half of her mana, and unable to lose all her mana regen...

Not the kind of Character I want to start a new game with, I mean, the fun was into getting there, startging with God Mode already is just duhhh...why would I pay for a game that can't give me a challenge?

Now now, she said she just wanted to see a closure to it and I pointed out how Bioware gave several closures in the Origins campaign and the DLC's. That his\\her actions to be aknoledged across Thedas is ok, but that already happens in DA2.

Modifié par Bayz, 17 décembre 2011 - 12:43 .

[Mike3207]

I really enjoyed Origins, but I think the DA franchise is now on the downswing. Skyrim and the upcoming Kingdom of Amalur really look like they'll make it easy to forget DA2, and I haven't got Skyrim yet. Bioware has a tall order to fill with DA3-I just get the feeling Dragon Age just won't be able to compete.

[Bayz]

Mike Smith wrote...

I really enjoyed Origins, but I think the DA franchise is now on the downswing. Skyrim and the upcoming Kingdom of Amalur really look like they'll make it easy to forget DA2, and I haven't got Skyrim yet. Bioware has a tall order to fill with DA3-I just get the feeling Dragon Age just won't be able to compete.

Overall Skyrim did very well, they had put a ton of love onto it and it paid off. Still the things that used to be the hype of the game, are actually quite dissapointing, and many stuff that they had not announced tend to grab me more than the things they announced.

In all is a good game, but NPC iteractions are...well it is Bethesda, at least there are no more Adoring fans...right?

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[csfteeeer]

Bayz wrote...



And a lot of others making the point that they want to play with it. When you point out that they could just rebuild the Warden they answer "ya bro but duhh...what happens wiz ma loot?" which is at what it is reduced, people wanting to play an über character that starts at level 35 with all the stuff from Golems...which in my case will involve an úber mage that just slaughtered everything on sight and had a ridiculous mana regeneration that allowed her to cast 9 spells on a row as a machine gun without having spent half of her mana, and unable to lose all her mana regen...

no, you're generalizing this and simplifying what people want, i want closure, that's what most people want, and The Warden got no closure, the warden story wasn't finished, it was abandoned(FACT).

but either way, a GOOD developer wouldn't care about such a thing, they would just re start for whatever reason and ignore los mamones llorones that come here to whine.

[Bayz]

csfteeeer wrote...

no, you're generalizing this and simplifying what people want, i want closure, that's what most people want, and The Warden got no closure, the warden story wasn't finished, it was abandoned(FACT).

Is what I've been seeing in the forum since DA2 came in...even before.
There were several options of closure (dying for Ferelden, going with Morrigan to the world of Purple Pot), then they decided to make the
warden dissapear because of the number of options you could have had. If the Warden became king or Queen they should just leave it as such, they decided that instead of taking players choices they were going for a general one.

I know that those were not all the choices, my warden is a mage (so no kingdom), killed Morrigan and basically had Alistair as her **** so she had no ****ing closure, just "A mage did it" and puff she dissapeared just because, still I think "well is ok, I can concentrate in another history then" but then come to teh internets and see people saying that DA2 it should not be called Dragon Age because you couldn't play as a grey Warden...well hello, it is called dragon age not Grey Warden Age so, what's wrong with that?

It happens in the same world, with some of the same issues (suddendly Dalish became common knowledge apparently instead of the secretism they had in DAO, the Qunari are egalitarian in gender issues and more retcons) but over all feels the same place...with ****ed mechanics but the same place.

csfteeeer wrote...
but either way, a GOOD developer wouldn't care about such a thing, they would just re start for whatever reason and ignore los mamones llorones that come here to whine.

And this people is what me toca los cojones, 'coz they can't get over it and try another stuff...but specially the ones that said "why would I work out my character's ass again when I can play with Jesus?" which is ok for casual gamers but for us normal gamers it makes not usual sense on starting with an über anyway.

Again if what you want is closure and you don't have any, make it up yourself, it will be canon so long as Bioware doesn't decide to take the Warden again and do something.

What I decided is to make my Warden go to the Deep Roads searching to the Architect and awaiting the Calling, if you killed the Architect then you can make him go and stay in Orzammar killing Darkspawn and leading expeditions to find the Old Gods before the Darkspawn do...possibility is in your hands, it wa your Grey Warden, Bioware is not going to mess with it anymore, make it do Grey Warden stuff, and stop wanting Bioware to tell you what your character does. It is annoyingly enough in DA2 already.

/rant

[csfteeeer]

Bayz wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...

no, you're generalizing this and simplifying what people want, i want closure, that's what most people want, and The Warden got no closure, the warden story wasn't finished, it was abandoned(FACT).

Is what I've been seeing in the forum since DA2 came in...even before.

so What?
they're a small portion, and they don't represent the people who actually THINK.

There were several options of closure (dying for Ferelden, going with Morrigan to the world of Purple Pot), then they decided to make the
warden dissapear because of the number of options you could have had. If the Warden became king or Queen they should just leave it as such, they decided that instead of taking players choices they were going for a general one.

This is a problem.

1)There was never any reason for this, and, surprise surprise, people didn't like.
2)The Only Real closure option is Dying, all the other ones leave open doors, although most shouldn't be opened, but others should(entering a mysterious Mirror going to who knows where is NOT a closure)
3) When somebody mysteriously disappears, theres a reason for that, and people want to know.
The Ending of DA2 literally sets up hawke and Warden for something else, but, they just ignore that, bringing a new protagonist who has nothing to do with anything going on(the OGB and World Destruction with Mages thing).
That's Bad Writing.

And this people is what me toca los cojones, 'coz they can't get over it and try another stuff...but specially the ones that said "why would I work out my character's ass again when I can play with Jesus?" which is ok for casual gamers but for us normal gamers it makes not usual sense on starting with an über anyway.

Some games allow you to start with almost everything you got right off the bat(you iniciate with all the available Signs in The Witcher 2, for example), but thanks to good design, you still feel like you advance, and you end up realizing that the powers you had were nothing compared to the ones coming.

While others, allow you to start with EVERYTHING right off the bat, and then they "Nerf" you(InFamous 2, Assassins Creed,etc..).

They could do either one of those.

Again if what you want is closure and you don't have any, make it up yourself, it will be canon so long as Bioware doesn't decide to take the Warden again and do something.

They already messed with my canon.

in my Mind, He Went off Traveling somewhere with Leliana, but that, clearly, wasn't meant to be.
and stop wanting Bioware to tell you what your character does. It is annoyingly enough in DA2 already.

Again, they already did it, they might as well do it again, if only to finish what they started(at least telling where our characters are after you made them disappear without us wanting it.)