34 réponses à ce sujet

[Drakonnen]

So this is one of the most irritating things about the toolset in my opinion:

After editing a .mrh file, which is the graphical morph file, you have to export it as a .mor file for use in the override directory and to upload it as a usable mod for people.

However, unless I'm completely missing it, there is no way to import or convert a .mor file  to make it graphically editable.

So, is there a tool out there that can do such a thing (convert an .mor to a graphically editable .mrh file)? 

Can the toolset do it, and if so how?

If not, is thre any chance we could get a tool to do so in the future?  

It seems like if you can do an export, an import should be just as easy.

[Twitchmonkey]

As I understand it, that would be something like getting the source code from an executable. Of course it's not exactly the same, so perhaps some conversion is possible, but for the time being, the best way to deal with this I think is just to keep a .mrh version of your morph and for modders to make the .mrh available with their .mor.

[Drakonnen]

Still would like a tool.

[Beerfish]

I'm not sure I understand. You can send morphs like any other file and the person who you send them to can open them up in the toolset and edit as they wish.

[Rheia]

I'd love the tool for this as well. In a bout of stupidity I've deleted a .mrh of a character I really liked only keeping the .mor only to find that the neck could be a few notches thicker, gr. Can't recreate it for the life of me too.

[Vae_Victis]

Beerfish wrote...

I'm not sure I understand. You can send morphs like any other file and the person who you send them to can open them up in the toolset and edit as they wish.

.mor files can't be opened in the Morph Editor currently.

Yes you can open a .mor file in the Toolset but your not going to be able to see what changes your making. You can't copy/paste either because the two files have entirely different structures.

Basically this is preventing people from modifying (besides basic properties like hairstyle) non-overriden PC, companion, and other NPC morphs without starting from scratch in the Morph editor since we only have access to the .mor files of these characters and not the .mrh files.

So if you want to change the size of your PC's nose a little bit your either going to have to start from scratch in the Editor or muck around a non-intuitive .mor file.

Modifié par Vae_Victis, 23 novembre 2009 - 03:54 .

[EJ42]

I doubt the values in the .MOR files map back, in any useful way, to the slider values in the toolset. I doubt it will be possible to go backwards.



Someone might be able to make an editor that opens the .MOR file, and lets you use it as a starting point to tweak. I'm not sure how effective it would be, though.

[Beerfish]

Okay I understand now, people are talking about npcs and morphs created with the in game character creator. Not morphs created with the toolset.

[wrinkly1987]

Has no headway been made re this?

[Vitkor]

I think it's not possible to convert MOR file back to MRH coz MOR file it's real morph for source object -- set of mesh's vertex (points) deltas.

It has no separate parameters for nose, neck etc.

Morph Editor used number of preset morphs for each part of the face and "mix" them according to parameter's values U set.

So MRH is scenario for Morph Editor only, not for game drive. MOR file is compiled set of deltas.

The game will slow down if each time for character rendering it have to combine (and keep in memory) full set of morphs.

[FalloutBoy]

The MRH file is just your standard XML file. So writing that is not too difficult except that you would need to know what all the tags mean. I wrote a head randomizer that creates MRH files and there are lots of tags that I don't understand. Modifying one is not too hard, but creating one from scratch would require knowledge that nobody outside of Bioware understands.



Writing a tool like this is likely impossible even if you thoroughly understood the formats of both files. They just don't translate back and forth like that. Like Twitchmonkey said, it would be like producing high-level source code from binary, which is impossible.

[blondesolid]

I love this most "Powerful Toolset" ever

[KEMKA]

when you export the .mrh file to a .mor file, does it get rid of the .mrh ? (sorry if this is a really stupid question, I don't actually have the toolset yet and am trying to understand how it works by just reading through the toolset forum! )

[Phaenan]

-k-a-t-e- wrote...
when you export the .mrh file to a .mor file, does it get rid of the .mrh ?

Nah, it keeps the source MRH safe. Actually, I even believe it automatically makes a backup copy of the MRH before the modifications.

[FalloutBoy]

There is really no need to do what the OP is asking for. I'm guessing he asked for it because he made a face in character creation and now wants to change it. Problem is that normal character creation doesn't even generate a MOR file so there would be nothing to edit. You can make a new head for yourself from scratch with the toolset, export it, then edit your savegame and change it to use the new morph you created. I did that myself. There are detailed instructions on how to do this that have been posted.

[Xetrill]

Phaenan wrote...

-k-a-t-e- wrote...
when you export the .mrh file to a .mor file, does it get rid of the .mrh ?

Nah, it keeps the source MRH safe. Actually, I even believe it automatically makes a backup copy of the MRH before the modifications.

I can confirm this. It also names the files according to the game rules.

[Vae_Victis]

FalloutBoy wrote...

There is really no need to do what the OP is asking for.

Sure there is. Editing NPC heads without starting from scratch. We have .mor files for every NPC but no .mrh files.

You can flub it using the shapes in the Toolset but that is for a select few NPC's so, for example, if I wanted to make subtle facial structure changes to Isolde, well...tough luck to me unless I want to start from scratch and hope I can get it right.

[Vae_Victis]

blondesolid wrote...

I love this most "Powerful Toolset" ever

It's a push for me...for everthing it does better than the Aurora toolset it seems to have made something else worse or just needlessly complicated.

I doubt Bioware kept the .mrh files for NPC's but if they did it would have been nice if they included them in the Source folder or something.

[Phaenan]

Vae_Victis wrote...

Sure there is. Editing NPC heads without starting from scratch. We have .mor files for every NPC but no .mrh files.

While that's a fair point indeed, I'd say that more linked to the fact the SP campaign sources aren't available yet. So we don't see the SP dialogs, scripts, yada yada, in their source  form. As a coder I'd love to see how some scripts where written so I guess I can understand, but I don't expect anyone to write a decompilerish application.  But, oh well, I guess what I'm trying to say is in the lines of "patience", or something. Maybe they will actually release the mrh at the same time as the rest of the SP sources.

Modifié par Phaenan, 09 décembre 2009 - 11:34 .

[Vitkor]

As I told MOR file is a set of deltas for each vertex in sourse mesh.  Maybe it has some chank with preserved MRH parameters (as Phaenan  say).
But if MOR does not have such chank -- decompiling application 100% impossible even if U know format of MOR and MRH files and have full set of morph target meshes (for each parameter) used in Morph Tool.

Coz when U construct character each vertex in result mesh affected not by single morph, but by numder of morphs.
For ex delta for some vertex in nose will be culculated like this:
Delta = D1*P1 + D2*P2 + ...... Dn*Pn
where D1...Dn -- deltas from single morhp targets in Morph Tool set and P1...Pn - parameters U choose
So if U even know Delta, D1...Dn --it's no way to culculate P1....Pn

[EJ42]

blondesolid wrote...

I love this most "Powerful Toolset" ever

That's a very naive and asinine response.

The "most powerful calculator in the world" cannot take zero as an input, and figure out that the person who wrote zero got there by hitting <number you want> * 0.

There is some data that you simply cannot get back once it's all mushed together.

It's not the toolset's fault.  Perhaps you just don't get the compiler analogy or understand how 3D models work.

Let me put it in another way you might be able to understand.  Take Mr. Potato Head and all of his parts.  Now, piece them together the way you want, and take a digital photograph.  Now, email that to a friend.  What tool is your friend supposed to use to turn that JPG back into the component Mr. Potato Head parts that he can mix and match?

The toolset lets you move the sliders to affect specific vertices in the head mesh file.  Multiple sliders affect the same vertices, so it's nearly impossible to look at the end position of the vertex, and figure out which slider(s) put it there.

Sure, you could possibly import the ending state of the vertices, but the sliders wouldn't be able to get the face back to the "default" state just by moving them back to the zero point.  Your ability to tweak the facial features would be extremely limited, and, depending on how many times that specific .MOR had been edited, you may end up with a useless, contorted blob.

[TheGreenLion]

To be on topic, I think that the OP has a good point. I would like to take .mors and convert them back into .mrhs that I can fiddle with in the toolset, that would be great.



Is it possible? Sounds like probably not, corresponding .mrhs to go with our list of un-editable .mors would be the easiest solution, I have no doubt that they would have kept the .mrhs since they are going for DA2 we would just need a folder containing them to be available for download, either included with a patch/addon or by itself. Would they give us that folder? Maybe.



On that note, go drink a beer and relax...no sense banging your head on a brick wall.

[EJ42]

TheGreenLion wrote...

To be on topic, I think that the OP has a good point. I would like to take .mors and convert them back into .mrhs that I can fiddle with in the toolset, that would be great.

Is it possible? Sounds like probably not, corresponding .mrhs to go with our list of un-editable .mors would be the easiest solution, I have no doubt that they would have kept the .mrhs since they are going for DA2 we would just need a folder containing them to be available for download, either included with a patch/addon or by itself. Would they give us that folder? Maybe.

On that note, go drink a beer and relax...no sense banging your head on a brick wall.

Look at the post immediately above yours.

No.  It is not possible.  I don't know how I could have made it any clearer.

[BryanDerksen]

We're going to be releasing more bundles of assets over time, I expect the main campaign's head morph sources will likely be among them. Don't know exactly when that'll be, though.

[TheGreenLion]

EJ42 wrote...

TheGreenLion wrote...

To be on topic, I think that the OP has a good point. I would like to take .mors and convert them back into .mrhs that I can fiddle with in the toolset, that would be great.

Is it possible? Sounds like probably not, corresponding .mrhs to go with our list of un-editable .mors would be the easiest solution, I have no doubt that they would have kept the .mrhs since they are going for DA2 we would just need a folder containing them to be available for download, either included with a patch/addon or by itself. Would they give us that folder? Maybe.

On that note, go drink a beer and relax...no sense banging your head on a brick wall.

Look at the post immediately above yours.

No.  It is not possible.  I don't know how I could have made it any clearer.

So you're saying that if I had the actual .mrh file for say Duncan, I could not then open it in the Toolset which reads .mrh's just fine, and could not replace Duncan's .mor with a .mor of the same name?

Or are you trying to argue that the conversion is not possible? If so I agree, and I saw nothing in my post that suggests that I thought it WAS possible. It's fantastic that you are so confident in yourself but truly being an ass does nothing for you.

Modifié par TheGreenLion, 10 décembre 2009 - 06:47 .