283 réponses à ce sujet

[jlb524]

Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

having...personal agency.

Hence crossing out Merril.

How does she lack 'personal agency'?

Hell, she has more agency than most.

A little, right up until the romance subplot. Not unusual for female characters in Bioware games, sadly.

How does she lack agency in the romance sublot?  She's the one that went to Hawke's house to initiate the romance.

And why are you only considering her romance plot?  Outside of that, she has plenty of agency (ya know, the whole 'leaving her clan to do her own thing' plot).

[Gotholhorakh]

I'm honestly astounded that people are still getting mileage out of discussing this - although that's not a criticism, more power to your elbows folks, go for that 100+ hours of enjoyment, got to find it somewhere.

I think most people are doing/have done a deft "move-along" from DA2 - OK, it failed to achieve greatness, and OK, a lot of the things people widely criticise have manifestly arisen from conscious design decisions. The reality remains, however, that most of us have had to move on from how disappointing we found this game because it just ain't gonna change now. Things are mitigated a little by the releases of TW2 and Skyrim, both of which are by all accounts actually moderately playable.

As for the positive spin on the dialog system , for me it just echoes once more the sinking feeling engendered by reading that review, so long ago, even though the writers are not the same. People can rationalise it from here to Deneb and back again if they like, for me when the dialog text you choose has Sweet Fanny Adams to do with what gets said by your character, you get the "enjoyable" feeling, for hours on end, of the game repeatedly lying to you.

Like many gamers I'd like to be able to persuade myself to enjoy this quirky unpleasantness, but short of us all eating a pound of lead a week before playing, I don't honestly see how how any rationalisation would make it work, let alone "it's great that the results of my mouse clicks are unpredictable". Again, what can you do? To each their own.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 17 décembre 2011 - 12:01 .

[jbrand2002uk]

to clarify as long as a game is set in the Dragon Age universe ie in Thedas then that means that it is perfectly valid for it to carry the Dragon Age title, There is no written rule that says because DAO was the 1st game that all later games must follow its mould in its entirety. But since as you have Delliberatly ignored the basic point to justify your claim that a comparison is valid, I'll speel it out in plain simple English the two DA games are 2 Different types of RPG with 2 different sets of priorities, so there is no way you can compare the 2 because they are as different as meat is to vegetables

[Aaleel]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

SammyJB17 wrote...

jbrand2002uk wrote...



Comparing DA2 and DAO is the same as comparing JRPG's and WRPG's which is something no professional reviewer would do

But when a game is released as a sequel to a certain type of game, is made by the same company, and stressed by that company that it still IS Dragon Age, comparisons are valid.

That is whats called a mixture of Publicity, Hype and your own assumptions only a total novice and an idiot believes publicity and hype and takes them as a given and we all know what the say about assumptions make and ass out of you and me.

OK going with my car analogy would you compare a Range Rover to a 4 wheel drive estate car on a test in say a desert ? no you would'nt because the 2 are incomparable 

Just because a game is said to be a sequel and is made by the same company does not make the comparisson valid If i followed you logic then it would be fair to make a comparisson between the DAO games and the books since they are all written by the same man published by the same company and set in the same Universe.

If I go back to my dealership and get the next years model to the car I currently have I don't expect it to be a different car.  A 2012 Lexus is going to be similar to a 2011 Lexus.  I don't expect to leave the dealership and find my new car no longer has keyless entry, push button start, bluetooth, and laundry list of other things the previous car had.

[jbrand2002uk]

OK in your case it what he is suggesting is that it would be valid to compare a Lexus LFA to a Lexus RX Hybrid( its and SUV) so are you saying that is valid to judge a supercar/hypercar based on the requirements of a SUV ?

[Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut]

jlb524 wrote...

On the merits and demerits of Merrill as a character

Sorry, no desire to go back to the "is Merrill a doormat?" discussion. Suffice to say that in romance subplots the hyper-submissive thing annoys me, the sex-as-reward thing annoys me, and Bioware has an irritating tendency to do both.

jbrand2002uk wrote...

OK in your case it what he is suggesting is that it would be valid to compare a Lexus LFA to a Lexus RX Hybrid( its and SUV) so are you saying that is valid to judge a supercar/hypercar based on the requirements of a SUV ?

I don't think that your treatment of the analogy is within the provisions set by the Geneva Conventions.

I also don't really know what to say to you if you think that comparing a game to its sequel is completely out of order.

[Aaleel]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

OK in your case it what he is suggesting is that it would be valid to compare a Lexus LFA to a Lexus RX Hybrid( its and SUV) so are you saying that is valid to judge a supercar/hypercar based on the requirements of a SUV ?

It doesn't matter.  If you get a car from the same car maker, they're going to be similar is some ways, a lot of ways.  If you go to a Lexus dealership for example, it doesn't matter whether it's a hybrid SUV, a sport coupe, a sedan, whatever.

It's going to have push button start, rear back up camera, side mirrors that tilt down so ou can see parking lines and curbs, bluetooth, and other things.  You are not going to get in one Lexus and it looks nothing like any other type.

If you're talking two different car makers then yes, but same maker and line, in this case car maker (Bioware), car line (Dragon Age). no. 

BUT...I will agree that each game should be judged on it's own.  I didn't like Dragon Age 2 for what it did wrong, which I will not spend time listing again.  But I don't begrudge anyone who didn't think that Bioward would go so much in a different direction, especially on their best selling game ever.

Modifié par Aaleel, 17 décembre 2011 - 12:23 .

[jbrand2002uk]

Wrong again SUV's are about practicality comfort and space , Hypercars are all about speed, Acceleration and Handling and are therefore incomparable even if they are both made by the same company. 5 year olds in school playgrounds playing top trumps know this why dont you ?

In case you wondering DAO is the SUV( slow boring but generally a good all rounder) DA2 is the hypercar

[Il Divo]

I feel like with all these car analogies we're losing the forest for the trees.

[billy the squid]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

Wrong again SUV's are about practicality comfort and space , Hypercars are all about speed, Acceleration and Handling and are therefore incomparable even if they are both made by the same company. 5 year olds in school playgrounds playing top trumps know this why dont you ?

In case you wondering DAO is the SUV( slow boring but generally a good all rounder) DA2 is the hypercar

I remember having this little discussion with you several months ago, didn't I? It didn't end paticularly well for you, so I'm suprised you are still resigned to being so obtuse. Although I must say please stop using that analogy, its suffered enough, please, just let it die.

Modifié par billy the squid, 17 décembre 2011 - 12:28 .

[Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut]

Il Divo wrote...

I feel like with all these car analogies we're losing the forest 18-wheeler for the trees tires.

[Aaleel]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

Wrong again SUV's are about practicality comfort and space , Hypercars are all about speed, Acceleration and Handling and are therefore incomparable even if they are both made by the same company. 5 year olds in school playgrounds playing top trumps know this why dont you ?

In case you wondering DAO is the SUV( slow boring but generally a good all rounder) DA2 is the hypercar

But the SUV and the Hypercar will still have similar looking interiors, features, dashboards and a laundry list of other things.  If the neither the SUV or the Hypercar had a name or logo on them you would be able to tell both came from the same company.

You're talking like they're going to be completely different cars.

Modifié par Aaleel, 17 décembre 2011 - 12:28 .

[Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut]

billy the squid wrote...

Although I must say please stop using that analogy, its suffered enough please just let it die.

I don't know, man, that analogy is the best thing to happen to the thread after everyone got bored of discussing Witcher 2.

Modifié par Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut, 17 décembre 2011 - 12:28 .

[Il Divo]

Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

I feel like with all these car analogies we're losing the forest 18-wheeler for the trees tires.

I see what you did there.

[jbrand2002uk]

my point Il Divo was that DAO and DA2 are 2 different types of RPG and therefore cannot be compared like for like as they are not alike I was simply phrasing it in a way simpletons can understand since as 5 year olds in my local primary school can understand that basic principle (seems to point that education in Great Britain is superior to the rest of the world)

[Wulfram]

DAO and DA2 aren't 2 different types of RPG at all. Unless pretty much every RPG is it's own type, anyway.

[John Epler]

Yeah, calling out other people by saying '5 year olds understand this concept WHY DON'T YOU KNOW JEEZE' is not a path to a constructive and useful discussion.

So cut it out.

[Chromie]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

my point Il Divo was that DAO and DA2 are 2 different types of RPG and therefore cannot be compared like for like as they are not alike I was simply phrasing it in a way simpletons can understand since as 5 year olds in my local primary school can understand that basic principle (seems to point that education in Great Britain is superior to the rest of the world)

How are they different? They play exactly the same?

Atakuma wrote...

Spot on, though the witcher 2 fellatio at the end was annoying.

Ofcourse that's all you care to mention about Witcher 2 

"Nothing felt stagnant, there was a direction to the journey. A clear adversary was made obvious from the start, but discovering his true motivations and identity was only a small part of what drew me from beginning to end. The Witcher 2 felt like a complete adventure, and one that wasn't watered down for the purposes of mass consumption. It was uncompromising, from the occasionally frustrating density of its fiction to the lack of proper tutorial system at launch, which certainly didn't help ease anyone in. In other games this might be a bigger deal, but in The Witcher 2, it made and odd kind of sense in context, and added a level of realism to the experience where not everything was ponderously spelled out. Want to succeed? Well, figure it out. Put in some effort. Earn the rewards. "


I guess this just didn't matter right?

Modifié par Ringo12, 17 décembre 2011 - 12:43 .

[jbrand2002uk]

If they play the same why the complaint about and i quote " flashy over the top combat"

[Chromie]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

If they play the same why the complaint about and i quote " flashy over the top combat"

It may be over the top but it still handles the same. It just looks stupid but the combat system is isn't very different maybe tweaked for more a faster more action packed experience but still not too different to classify it as a different kind of rpg.

Modifié par Ringo12, 17 décembre 2011 - 12:46 .

[Atakuma]

Ringo12 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

Spot on, though the witcher 2 fellatio at the end was annoying.

Ofcourse that's all you care to mention about Witcher 2 

"Nothing felt stagnant, there was a direction to the journey. A clear adversary was made obvious from the start, but discovering his true motivations and identity was only a small part of what drew me from beginning to end. The Witcher 2 felt like a complete adventure, and one that wasn't watered down for the purposes of mass consumption. It was uncompromising, from the occasionally frustrating density of its fiction to the lack of proper tutorial system at launch, which certainly didn't help ease anyone in. In other games this might be a bigger deal, but in The Witcher 2, it made and odd kind of sense in context, and added a level of realism to the experience where not everything was ponderously spelled out. Want to succeed? Well, figure it out. Put in some effort. Earn the rewards. "


I guess this just didn't matter right?

My bad, I only read what was in the OP.

Modifié par Atakuma, 17 décembre 2011 - 12:47 .

[Chromie]

Atakuma wrote...

My bad, I only read what was in the OP.

Ah well. CDProjekt really made an amazing game. A little nudity, that is with in context, shouldn't be a reason anyone turns it down imo. It's the dark fantasy game that Bioware promised but never delivered on.

[billy the squid]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

my point Il Divo was that DAO and DA2 are 2 different types of RPG and therefore cannot be compared like for like as they are not alike I was simply phrasing it in a way simpletons can understand since as 5 year olds in my local primary school can understand that basic principle (seems to point that education in Great Britain is superior to the rest of the world)

And those of us from Britain are also worried that one has not yet grasped that basic concept of expectation and IP penetration based on previous IP instalments.

[jbrand2002uk]

billy the squid wrote...

jbrand2002uk wrote...

my point Il Divo was that DAO and DA2 are 2 different types of RPG and therefore cannot be compared like for like as they are not alike I was simply phrasing it in a way simpletons can understand since as 5 year olds in my local primary school can understand that basic principle (seems to point that education in Great Britain is superior to the rest of the world)

And those of us from Britain are also worried that one has not yet grasped that basic concept of expectation and IP penetration based on previous IP instalments.

Oh i get them but they are ireelevant to quality and enjoyment which is subjective 

[Atakuma]

Ringo12 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

My bad, I only read what was in the OP.

Ah well. CDProjekt really made an amazing game. A little nudity, that is with in context, shouldn't be a reason anyone turns it down imo. It's the dark fantasy game that Bioware promised but never delivered on.

I didn't say anything about nudity. From what I read in the OP, it looked as though the writer was just offhandedly mentioning how great TW2 was. It was my fault for being too lazy to read the whole article.

Modifié par Atakuma, 17 décembre 2011 - 12:56 .