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[Tezzajh]

Dragon age origins she had a amulet of the seekers circle, and seeker armour in DA2. sounds like they have changed their minds about her role. i guess its cheaper to say "hay i have the seeker gear but im not a seeker " than to write a back story about it

Modifié par Tezzajh, 23 décembre 2011 - 03:17 .

[Obsidian Gryphon]

After reading Asunder, no, Leliana is not a Seeker in that period. She is definitely on the Devine Justina's side who's trying to make changes to the Circle but faced the obdurate obstacles of ironclad Tenplar custom/traditions/opinions that has stagnated through centuries since Andraste and growing steadily worst. And of course,  the underlying fears of the mundanes who believed the worst than the best. Not surprising, given the message / propaganda drilled into them.  

After the end of Asunder, I'm not sure if the Seekers were revamped. If not, then Leliana and the ppl with her are another branch that work for the Devine. It also didn't sound to me like the mages were on high ground, in fact, they looked extremely vulnerable. I believe the Chantry is also in danger of a takeover by the Seekers. That which protects now seeks to control everything. If they cannot control, they can unravel and install their own puppet.

That makes Leliana and Cassandra's quest rather vital (anythig to improve their chances); they need the two ppl who already  command respect and greater influence among certain groups to prevail agains the Templars and Seekers. Not sure who the 3rd protaganist is in DA III. How would it all play out? I'm not sure it can be done without the Warden and the Champion appearing on the radar.

The thing with the Warden is whether the GW would break their neutral ground by getting involve in the conflict that has nothing to do with a Blight and darkspawn. But they cannot do without mages in the forthcoming Blights, can they? Especially since the darkspawn are evolving.

If the GW do get involved, they have an army ; the one built by the Warden at Virgil's Keep. Within these 10 years, the numbers would have increased, probably enough  to factor against the Templars. They wouldn't send all of course, just enough to protect the mages (well, at least the core of the rebellion). But it probably wouldn't play out that way.

Modifié par Obsidian Gryphon, 23 décembre 2011 - 03:27 .

[WhiteKnyght]

Grey Wardens greatly value the power of mages against darkspawn. And if Greagoir is any indication, the Templars don't like the Wardens very much. Considering that they are willing to harbor apostates and maleficar to fight darkspawn with.

So I think I could see the First Warden bending the rules and offering to aid the mages in exchange for more support against darkspawn.

As for Cassandra and Leliana. The ending of Asunder makes sense given the exchange between Cass and Varric. He groups her with the whole of the Templars and remarks about the divorce. And she responds by saying that not all of them desire war. So it's likely that Cassandra is leading a group of Seekers who rebelled against the Lord-Seeker and wish to stay loyal to the Divine. Which would explain why she was reporting to Leliana and seemingly taking orders from her. Since Leliana is working directly under the Divine.

But her wearing the same armor as Cassandra and the rest of the Seekers was misleading. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a moose?

Joking aside, I guess what it means is that Cassandra and her little faction aren't wearing traditonal Seeker attire. Since the guy on the cover of Asunder -- who is presumably the Lord-Seeker -- appears to be wearing Templar-style armor.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 23 décembre 2011 - 04:27 .

[Heimdall]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Grey Wardens greatly value the power of mages against darkspawn. And if Greagoir is any indication, the Templars don't like the Wardens very much. Considering that they are willing to harbor apostates and maleficar to fight darkspawn with.

So I think I could see the First Warden bending the rules and offering to aid the mages in exchange for more support against darkspawn.

As for Cassandra and Leliana. The ending of Asunder makes sense given the exchange between Cass and Varric. He groups her with the whole of the Templars and remarks about the divorce. And she responds by saying that not all of them desire war. So it's likely that Cassandra is leading a group of Seekers who rebelled against the Lord-Seeker and wish to stay loyal to the Divine. Which would explain why she was reporting to Leliana and seemingly taking orders from her. Since Leliana is working directly under the Divine.

But her wearing the same armor as Cassandra and the rest of the Seekers was misleading. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a moose?

Joking aside, I guess what it means is that Cassandra and her little faction aren't wearing traditonal Seeker attire. Since the guy on the cover of Asunder -- who is presumably the Lord-Seeker -- appears to be wearing Templar-style armor.

Then again, he's the Lord Seeker, so there's a strong chance that his armor is more personalized for his office.

[Sajuro]

Urzon wrote...

I think a part of it is to blend in with the other Seekers. In times of war, it is best not to stick out like a sore thumb in a group. If she was walking around with flashy Chantry robes in a group of heavily armored Seekers, that would points to her being the most important person and obvious target.

Critical thinking is critical

/thread

[jackofalltrades456]

From what I read in Asunder, it seems like they were trying their best to separate both Leliana and the Divine from the Templar by making them more sympathetic to Mages and having the Seekers leave the Chantry at the end of the novel.

Maybe they originally intended to make her part of the Seekers, but retconned it after negative reception from fans.

I mean why the **** would she be wearing a Seeker uniform if she's not in the Seekers? Is she trying to be like the Warden and wear other peoples uniforms?

[EmperorSahlertz]

jackofalltrades456 wrote...

From what I read in Asunder, it seems like they were trying their best to separate both Leliana and the Divine from the Templar by making them more sympathetic to Mages and having the Seekers leave the Chantry at the end of the novel.

Maybe they originally intended to make her part of the Seekers, but retconned it after negative reception from fans.

I mean why the **** would she be wearing a Seeker uniform if she's not in the Seekers? Is she trying to be like the Warden and wear other peoples uniforms?

Why would a Warden wear Templar uniform if he isn't a Templar? Why would Hawke wear Grey Warden uniform when he isn't a Grey Warden?

There could be all kinds of reasons for why Lelianna is wearing the Seeker armor at the end of DA2. Perhaps in the gap between Asunder and the end scene of DA2, Lelianna have joined the remaining loyal Seekers. Perhaps she was working undercover. Perhaps it is as gaider proposed: The Seekers don't have a uniform, and Cassandra, her men, and Lelianna are simply using old Chantry symbolism with the eye. Tons of possibilities.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 01 mars 2012 - 05:24 .

[Blacklash93]

Was there a negative reception from the fans? I never saw anything.

But really it could easily be rationalized due to Leliana's greatest skill/concern, which is blending in with the crowd. That's kind of part of her job.

[Wulfram]

jackofalltrades456 wrote...

From what I read in Asunder, it seems like they were trying their best to separate both Leliana and the Divine from the Templar by making them more sympathetic to Mages and having the Seekers leave the Chantry at the end of the novel.

Maybe they originally intended to make her part of the Seekers, but retconned it after negative reception from fans.

I mean why the **** would she be wearing a Seeker uniform if she's not in the Seekers? Is she trying to be like the Warden and wear other peoples uniforms?

As Mr Gaider points out earlier in this thread, we don't have any clear evidence that it's Seeker armour.

And the fact that Cassandra and Leliana - and by implication, the Divine - were not supporting the Templars against the mages was established at the end of DA2.  The people hunting the mages had left the chantry to do so, Varric says that.  And Cassandra makes it clear she's hoping to bring peace.

[hussey 92]

Leliana wearing Seeker armour doesn't mean she's a Seeker, just like her dying doesn't mean she's dead.  

[Halberd96]

I thought she was a Seeker...I jumped to a conclusion there I think.

I think its better that way though, I thought it was silly that the Seekers had a symbol and they had soldiers that all had the symbols making it hard to distinguish.

I'd imagine though that all those soldiers at the end of DA 2 are still an important part of the Chantry though since they are under the order of a seeker and Leliana who has a really important job/title/role apparently.

[Agent_Dark_]

I think Leliana will turn out not to be a "real" person after all. Like Starbuck in the re-imagined BSG - she's an "angel" who's come to help out Thedas in the Maker's Name.

When she starts humming All Along the Watchtower you'll know it makes sense.

[Tommyspa]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Asunder established that the Seeker's do have a uniform, and that the uniform is the same as what Leliana was wearing. Considering Asunder takes place after the conclusion of DA2 it is clearly a retcon. She was obviously supposed to be a Seeker in DA2 but the events of Asunder would have put her at odds with the Divine and the Chantry so they changed their minds after the fact.

How is it clearly a retcon? I didn't realize I wasn't really a Grey Warden while wearing the robes of the silent one as Hawke...How long have you been sitting on this info? She wears the armor because it is convienent because she is traveling with seekers and you know, her role is to be incognito most of the time.

[whykikyouwhy]

BrotherWarth wrote...

That makes zero sense. She was with the Divine in Asunder but she wasn't wearing the same robes as the Divine. And why would the Seekers, an elite order that operates in secrecy, just hand out armor to people who happen to be traveling with them? The implication in DA2 is clearly that she's a Seeker. It's moronic to go "Hey, she's wearing a Seeker's armor. I guess that means she hangs out with Seekers sometimes."
Wearing a specific outfit as Hawke or the Warden has no merit in this argument. That's not canon, it's just player agency and Bioware utilizing the resources they already have available.

I don't know that it makes "zero" sense... 

There are all manner of reasons for why Leliana might be wearing the same armor as Cassandra and crew. Such reasons could include:

 - She needed to fit in with the troops and be accepted by their number.
 - She was issued available armor for the trip to interrogate Varric.
 - The armor itself is not necessarily "Seeker" armor, but may be a non-templar issue (perhaps it's standard Chantry issue).
 - She might not be actually working for the Seekers as a sworn member, but had infiltrated their ranks at the Divine's behest.

She does tell Hawke that she is working for the Divine. What that work entails, and who else she may have to work with in order to conduct her duties and tasks (like say, the Seekers) has yet to be fully revealed.

[thats1evildude]

I assumed that Cassandra and Leliana were merely posing as Seekers as part of their mission. (Well, Cassandra was a Seeker, but if she remained loyal to the Divine, then she broke with the rest of her order.)

"I am Cassandra Pentaghast, Seeker of the Chantry" has a bit more weight to it than "Former Seeker of the Chantry Until the Dissolution of the Nevarran Accord."

Modifié par thats1evildude, 18 mai 2012 - 01:18 .

[whykikyouwhy]

BrotherWarth wrote...

First off, the Seekers are separate from Templars. They serve 2 very different functions and the Seekers were formed independent of the Chantry(before becoming part of the Chantry). They serve the Divine(until Asunder). The black armor with the eye in the sunburst is Seeker armor. That's made completely canon by Asunder. And the Divine wouldn't need to infiltrate the Seekers since they serve her will.
And one thing you all seem to be forgetting is that video games are a visual medium. What they show us is to be taken at face value if there is no conflicting element presented. Leliana says she works for the Divine. She's later seen in the armor of an order that specifically serves the Divine. There is no reason to assume she isn't supposed to be a Seeker in DA2. It isn't until Asunder that we're given any reason to assume she isn't a Seeker.

I never said that they were part of the Templar order. I said that perhaps the armor Cassandra and company are wearing is non-templar issue - as in armor that might be provided by the Chantry to its factions that are not of the Templar order/arm.

The codex entry for The Seekers of Truth states this:

It was a mutually beneficial arrangement, but few know that the Chantry created yet another order to watch over the templars: the Seekers of Truth.

I don't know that I would take anything at face value, visual medium or no. We've already seen evidence of political intrigue in both games (particularly involving Orlais). Nothing need be what it seems. So while Leliana is wearing an armor that matches what someone referred to as a Seeker is wearing may imply that she too is a Seeker, that doesn't make it true. That makes it an assumption, which could in fact be an illusion.

And I don't know that any of the Dragon Age novels are considered canon, btw. 

[Lenimph]

Who care's if she's a Seeker... she's already the right hand of the Divine, either way she's serving under and for the Divine. What's the difference? A suit of armor?