23 réponses à ce sujet

[Aurora313]

Is there a way (or will there be a way) to keep the scars for a Paragon/Paragade player. The scars Shepard has fresh out of the Lazarus Project - while yes, they look fairly severe - I personally believe that it adds a further unique element to his appearance. I am aware that it's part of the morality system, as a physical indicator of how paragon or renagade a character is, but I tend to find them asethically pleasing and find myself disappointed when I reach the pinnacle of paragon and they have faded completely. I wonder if there will be an option in ME3 to stop the scars being affected by morality.

Also, a second point (And please, no innuendo or remarks about this, they will be reported and/or ignored.), if the graphics engine supported it and the scars weren't just confined to Shepard's face (IE, you could see them on his arms and shoulders as well if you choose to wear the civis) what would they look like?
A surgical and semetrical patchwork?
Or assorted web-like patterns similar to the onces seen on his cheeks at full renagade?

Modifié par Aurora313, 15 décembre 2011 - 12:44 .

[Pure6Evil]

i dont know, i found myself wearing the deathmask for 50% of the game so i dont really look at those scars.

all i know is those scars signify your indoctornation, the more of a murderer you are the more indoctornated you become and those implants keeping you alive suddenly let you work for the reapers

[ItsFreakinJesus]

If the Ashley armor pic is any indication, Shepard will still have scars.

[Aurora313]

How does 'Indoctrination' come into play? They signifiy your morality and the more morally questionable your acts are, the more of a renagade you become and the worse your scars become. It's not like Shepard can be assimilated by the Reapers because he's a cyborg now....

Although, that's something terrifying to ponder...

[Aurora313]

ItsFreakinJesus wrote...

If the Ashley armor pic is any indication, Shepard will still have scars.

But that's a default Shepard started fresh from ME3. Not a import.

[CptData]

Aurora313 wrote...

ItsFreakinJesus wrote...

If the Ashley armor pic is any indication, Shepard will still have scars.

But that's a default Shepard started fresh from ME3. Not a import.

Indeed. Default Shepard has a paragon/renegade rating of 0, means s/he is "neutral". Also an important Shepard never healed those scars by using that upgrade.

[Pure6Evil]

1st step of indoctornation is the eyes, something TIM is very much down with.

in ME1 Seren said that Sovereign "implanted" him to "strengthen my resolve", something that was done to shepard.

the more renegade you go the more you screw the galaxy, you can probably screw it so far that you end up working with reapers and cerberus. but im not sure of this last part

i mean, whose scars would heal or increase depending on their moral choices, looking at Seren changing his looks through the course of ME1 from start to finish watching as he does all his evil deeds and gets more scars its safe to assume its indoctornation.

Modifié par Pure6Evil, 15 décembre 2011 - 12:48 .

[Aurora313]

But Cerberus didn't used Reaper technology to bring Shepard back. And TIM only threw in his lot with the Reapers some point after Shepard gives Cerberus the middle finger and the start of ME3. Not before. If he had, what would have been the point in ressurecting Shepard to combat the Collectors. A known servant of the Reapers and set them back.

The scars have nothing to do with indoctriation, it just shows how much of a ruthless individual your Shepard is.

[Pure6Evil]

Aurora313 wrote...

But Cerberus didn't used Reaper technology to bring Shepard back. And TIM only threw in his lot with the Reapers some point after Shepard gives Cerberus the middle finger and the start of ME3. Not before. If he had, what would have been the point in ressurecting Shepard to combat the Collectors. A known servant of the Reapers and set them back.

The scars have nothing to do with indoctriation, it just shows how much of a ruthless individual your Shepard is.

if you talk to EDI after you unshacle the AI she said "a part of the reaper that attacked the citiadel was used to make me"

or something of that nature, either way the novel that shows TIM before he became TIM sais that he found some artifact of reaper nature, he then became indoctornated.

also Vigil on Ilos said "Seren is a rouge agent of sovereign, although he was probably not the first, sovereign was probably hiding, planning and gathering allies to start the invasion", Seren betrayed the shadow broker because reapers already have TIM, ever notice how he always has some info and resources? thats why liara is safe, shadow broker is untouched by reapers.

edit: also in ME1 if you did Admiral Kohokus side quest you will see cerberus facility housing a husk, a Rachni and thorian kreeps. lets take the rachni, if Shepard cleaned house the way he should have and killed off all the Rachni (besides the queen who will help you in ME3, but even if you kill her....) then cerberus shouldnt have them, as well as the thorian kreeps, yet, even after killing the thorian and Rachni the cerberous team somehow got them, the only way to do this is to be there before shepard.

Modifié par Pure6Evil, 15 décembre 2011 - 01:04 .

[CptData]

Aurora313 wrote...

But Cerberus didn't used Reaper technology to bring Shepard back. And TIM only threw in his lot with the Reapers some point after Shepard gives Cerberus the middle finger and the start of ME3. Not before. If he had, what would have been the point in ressurecting Shepard to combat the Collectors. A known servant of the Reapers and set them back.

The scars have nothing to do with indoctriation, it just shows how much of a ruthless individual your Shepard is.

Not sure if you're right here, Aurora. At least EDI contains some Reaper tech if I am right. The Normandy was part of the Lazarus project - guess they used some Reaper tech on Shepard too. Maybe that tech is not build in, but maybe it was used to clone cells or simply to revive Shepard.

I still believe Shepard's mind & memories are untouched by TIM, mostly because both were stored in a greybox. No Reaper tech needed here.

[Aurora313]

@Pure6Evil.
Ok, that's your opinion. I respect it and understand it, but as a novice writer myself? It feels like a WEAK plot twist. I mean VERY weak. I'm sorry, but that's how I feel. Revealing Shepard as indoctrinated by his implants feels like it cheapens his story a bit. He fights for everything with such drive then becomes a slave to his own cybernetics? Epescially since more than a few times it has been pointed out that Shepard has no such implant that could directly influence his actions and control him.

Also, TIM was exposed to a Reaper pillar. Shepard was exposed to several piece of Reaper Tech on many occasions for extended periods of time, more than half of them were before he died with the SR1. If anything, Shepard probably has the greater risk of being indoctrinated or being a sleeper agent rather than TIM. Although, as I said again, that would cheapen the story in my eyes.

Shepard experiencing haunting hallucinations from the Reapers as a way to demoralise and shake him to the core? I will accept.
Indoctrinated from implants? I will not.

[Pure6Evil]

Aurora313 wrote...

@Pure6Evil.
Ok, that's your opinion. I respect it and understand it, but as a novice writer myself? It feels like a WEAK plot twist. I mean VERY weak. I'm sorry, but that's how I feel. Revealing Shepard as indoctrinated by his implants feels like it cheapens his story a bit. He fights for everything with such drive then becomes a slave to his own cybernetics? Epescially since more than a few times it has been pointed out that Shepard has no such implant that could directly influence his actions and control him.

Also, TIM was exposed to a Reaper pillar. Shepard was exposed to several piece of Reaper Tech on many occasions for extended periods of time, more than half of them were before he died with the SR1. If anything, Shepard probably has the greater risk of being indoctrinated or being a sleeper agent rather than TIM. Although, as I said again, that would cheapen the story in my eyes.

Shepard experiencing haunting hallucinations from the Reapers as a way to demoralise and shake him to the core? I will accept.
Indoctrinated from implants? I will not.

as i mentioned, im not sure if you can actually work with the reapers, although that would be pretty cool.

the implants inside shepard during the lazerus project seem too coincidental to me tho, i mean think about it, shepard wakes up 1/2 way into his scar recovery Wilson who killed off the station was TIM's "top scientist", i bet you he told him to kill of the station then and there after shep woke up the 1st time.

as for the scars and implants, well, i never did a renegade run, but i saw a full renegade shep picture, looks like an indoctornated shepard to me, looking at Seren just kinda seems to fall in place. Seren and shep both have those implants, their eyes and face and scars and body slowly change through the game with more humanity they loose.

Seren said "there is a thin line between indoctornation and slavery, if the reaper induces too much control of the host they will become a mindless husk", basicly those implants, like lets say when Seren died and sovereign brought him back to life, i can see something like that with shepard. controlling a person that was implanted with reaper tech is easier to control without having them go husk. and should he die the reapers will just probably "assume control of this form".

the reapers made protheans into obedient and fearless slaves, shep was out for 2 years, TIM is a nasty charecter, also in ME3 he is working with reapers, and all his soldiers are indoctornated.

Modifié par Pure6Evil, 15 décembre 2011 - 01:20 .

[Aurora313]

For the sake of argument, let's say that you're right. Hypothetically. If Shepard were indoctrinated by the Reapers:

- One, how come you never hear the whispers of the Reapers, as described by other cybernetically indoctrinated persons (Paul Grayson. Look him up)?
- Two, why does Shepard even go with Miranda and Jacob and not shoot them on the spot before going off to perform esponiage for the Reapers? (kind of confused why he's unable to do that as Pro paragon/Alliance anyway. I really hate them both along with Cerberus.)
- Three. Why do the Reapers allow him to constantly mess up there plans? And constantly ****** them off? (see Harbinger in Arrival DLC).
- Four. Why would TIM and Miranda(Whom was the one doing the work mind you) Both state explicately that there was no kind of control chip in Shepard? Despite Miranda's insistance on doing so.

I'm sorry, but you seem to be calling him 'Indoctrinated' based purely on the nature of his appearance as a full renagade whose ruthlessness is unparralleled. Shepard has just as many implants in him as a Paragon. Does that mean he's indoctrinated too?

Modifié par Aurora313, 15 décembre 2011 - 01:25 .

[Aurora313]

Also - About Wilson. He was in the Shadow-Broker's employ, though his orders were unclear, there was a strong implication that he was either trying to terminate Lazarus Project or gain privileged information from Miranda.

[CptData]

@ Aurora: fully concur.

It's more likely Liara got indoctrinated - maybe because she once mistook a reaper artifact as prothean? After all she was exposed to prothean artifacts for a long time, if one of them was of reaper origin, she could have been indoctrinated over time.

But I think that's not happening.

There's another interesting question: why seems it be impossible to indoctrinate Shepard? S/he got exposed reaper artifacts several times in the series, but it looks as if nothing happened to him or her. Greybox-theory again?

[Aurora313]

Either greybox is somehow interferring with his/her mind enough for the Reapers not to get a hold. Or the Prothean Cypher/beacons altered the way his mind functions. Exposure to the Thorian spores? Or even the Lazarus project implants, or a combination of all four (if Shepard has a greybox that is.). It's impossible to say. Aside from the fact his willpower is god-like. There's a number of things that could be the reason, or none at all.

[CptData]

Aurora313 wrote...

Either greybox is somehow interferring with his/her mind enough for the Reapers not to get a hold. Or the Prothean Cypher/beacons altered the way his mind functions. Exposure to the Thorian spores? Or even the Lazarus project implants, or a combination of all four (if Shepard has a greybox that is.). It's impossible to say. Aside from the fact his willpower is god-like. There's a number of things that could be the reason, or none at all.

Yap. Could be everything and nothing. Think the spores are gone in ME2, but some of the other stuff is still in there: prothean message + cypher + greybox and determination. Shepard won't give up that easily.

Besides that, I don't think Shepard got godlike powers or something. S/he is just a really, really lucky person with a tendency to beat that "Kobyashi Maru test" every single time.

[Aurora313]

Also, my Shepard says to his LI 'Please shoot me if you think I've been indoctrinated.'... at least in my head canon he does.

Anyway, back to the matter. The Scars. I want to keep them. But can't and that makes me sad-face.

[Pure6Evil]

Aurora313 wrote...

For the sake of argument, let's say that you're right. Hypothetically. If Shepard were indoctrinated by the Reapers:

- One, how come you never hear the whispers of the Reapers, as described by other cybernetically indoctrinated persons (Paul Grayson. Look him up)?
- Two, why does Shepard even go with Miranda and Jacob and not shoot them on the spot before going off to perform esponiage for the Reapers? (kind of confused why he's unable to do that as Pro paragon/Alliance anyway. I really hate them both along with Cerberus.)
- Three. Why do the Reapers allow him to constantly mess up there plans? And constantly ****** them off? (see Harbinger in Arrival DLC).
- Four. Why would TIM and Miranda(Whom was the one doing the work mind you) Both state explicately that there was no kind of control chip in Shepard? Despite Miranda's insistance on doing so.

I'm sorry, but you seem to be calling him 'Indoctrinated' based purely on the nature of his appearance as a full renagade whose ruthlessness is unparralleled. Shepard has just as many implants in him as a Paragon. Does that mean he's indoctrinated too?

1) you got me there but ill try a crack at it there are no reapers in the galaxy to hear whispers from. or when shepard found object Rho, even shepard said "is this ok to keep a reaper artifact here in the open?" after which amanda forces shepard to "listen to the whispers", and he did. he was not affected like anyone else, right after that the reaper meets shepard saying "you are becoming an annoyance" meaning they ARE letting him do what hes doing the whole time. the attitude i felt is "we let you live... for now.... but you are becoming more trouble then you are worth"
2) they dont seem like enemies, and the reapers dont need to control him, conveniently enough TIM will controll him and tell him what to do in the mean time.
3) because the reapers lived for millions of years, they dont think that shepard will actually succeed in uniting every race out there to go up against the reapers and as for arrival, like i said at that point (the intro of ME3) the reapers get pissed off at him but its too late because hes in alliance hands now.
4) there is no chip, but look at the lazerus video, clearly you see implants being applied to shepard, how would shepard know? TIM doesnt have to tell him anything.

Modifié par Pure6Evil, 15 décembre 2011 - 01:51 .

[CptData]

Aurora313 wrote...

Also, my Shepard says to his LI 'Please shoot me if you think I've been indoctrinated.'... at least in my head canon he does.

Anyway, back to the matter. The Scars. I want to keep them. But can't and that makes me sad-face.

Yup, paragon!Sheps don't have them. I'd like to have them too, at least sometimes. Maybe we're going to receive new scars in ME3? Shepard gets caught by explosions now and then, why not having one causing a scar in the face?

[Aurora313]

I hope that the Shepard (no matter the import) would have had the scars treated between 2 and 3, despite protests, and the explosion that takes place during the hearing in the leaked demo gives you a new set of scars. I'd like that if it happened.

[DonutsDealer]

I think that the scars are imported in ME3. So if you have the glowing eyes and scars they will pass to ME3 from the beginning. And if you healed your Shepard he won't have scars at all.

Also, if you want to keep the scars even if you are full paragon you will need to fill some of your renegade bar, so they can compensate.

[Alex_SM]

I'm pretty sure the robot dog from the CE will be a mini dog-reaper, and it will cause the indoctrination of the whole Normandy.