149 réponses à ce sujet

[Zarenthar]

I roll with 3 mages and a tank and tbh I only use the tank to round up everybody and taunt, then force field him while my 3 mages call down the wrath of AoE magic straight on the tank. There is absolutely no point in taking melee DPS or rogues and even archers for that matter because they all pale in comparison to the destructive might of magic.

My 3 mages are almost identical: spirit healer spec'd, heal, AoE heal, rez, fireball, cone of cold and arcane bolt. I just line my casters up nice and tight so they can chain CoC just about any1 who peels off Allastair.

So ya I just love the tip on the load screen saying" a stealthed attack is a guaranteed critical hit, provided the attack is successful"

I just enter a room and ROFLSTOMP everything by triple bolting fireballs GG. Allastair is but my pawn.

Come to think of it I should just go for blood magic and create a council of Apostate magi to decimate the Chantry and dominate the wolrd... Wait déja vu lol.

I think I fail at roleplaying.

[JJM152]

Super cheap lyrium potions, or really - 5 sec cool down on different types of lyrium potions, are what make magic users so over powered. Their abilities as they are, are actually fairly good. It's just that it's dirt cheap to make 400 or so lesser lyrium potions and set up all your mages with a tactic that is like if mana < 25% drink lyrium potion.

[Enuhal]

In terms of singletarget-DPS, a dualwielding rogue is extremely good, possibly better than any mage can be.



It requires way more micromanagement than casting 3 Fireballs, though

[Zarenthar]

Actually I have hardly ever used Mana pots 1 or 2 lesser ones on boss fights but thing is I have put nearly 100% of my points in magic, zero in constitution and a little here and there in will.



MOAR POOOWAHHHH!!!!

[Silensfurtim]

my backstabber rogue can wipe out a group of enemies faster than morrigan unleashing her best spells.

[nuculerman]

yes. Mages are over powered and parties of three mages make this game easy. All you need is three mages, two force fields, and one warrior that has taunt and every boss becomes a snoozefest. This was discovered quite a while ago. If you want a more challenging game don't play with three mages. So far I've had the most fun micromanaging my bloodmage/spirit healer grouped with Lelianna as a ranger/bard archer, Lohgain as a main tank and Ohgren as main melee DPS. Without forcefield, mind you. It's just the right challenge for me on hard.

[Zarenthar]

Force field should be removed from the game tbh it's way too efficient.

[Sarcen]

Zarenthar wrote...

Force field should be removed from the game tbh it's way too efficient.

Something less drastic like making sure AI does not attack someone in forcefield will fix it too, so if you force field your warrior it just goes for your mages.

[hexaligned]

Yes, melee is not as powerful as casting (or even close) this isn't a problem caused by melee being worthless though, it's caused by casters being completely broken game mechanic wise. If I couldn't run full melee groups, I would have gotten bored of this game awhile ago.

[Zarenthar]

This game is a great deal of fun nonetheless. Probably the best single player experience for me in a long while.

[TallBearNC]

LOL in any runthrough I eventually run with Shale, Alistair, and Wynn, and I MOW things down w/o an issue. When Shale has 2 matching brilliant crystals, he's almost unstoppable. Wynn keeps everyone healed, and a bard keeps mana and sta up. (I'm usually a rogue or a war, but I need to play through other variations)

[lazorexplosion]

Melee is far from 'useless'.

[kraidy1117]

maybe your just rubish with melee characters....

[nuculerman]

Melee is useless if you're comparing them to mages. Replace any melee character with a mage and the game becomes easier. As long as the last slot you have available is held by a party member with taunt, a mage is far more useful than a melee character. This is true for the VAST majority of this game. The only exception I can think of is Gax, who is highly resistant to magic.



Melee isn't nerfed or underpowered. Mages are just broken. Nightmare is still possible with melee characters, but it's substantially easier with three mages and a warrior. If you max out fire chain with your mage, do blood magic specialization, max out cold and electricity with morrigan, max out earth with wynne, give two of the three of you crushing prison chain and give the other one glyff chain... it's beyond silly. Cast blood wound, run out of the room, cast storm of the century combo. Cast earth quake, cast glyff combo.... you have far more DPS on every single enemy in a room than any melee character can output on a single target. And they can't move for like 30 seconds. Even on nightmare that kills everything but red bosses. And that red boss is just going to be attacking your force fielded tank who is in the center of all that AoE DPS, but can't take any damage.



I'm sorry. But I don't care what your rogues single target DPS is. Three mages have the ability to deal out 30 seconds worth of massive damage to every enemy in an area, and instakill three to four enemies if need be (cone of cold plus stone fist and crushing prison). If they have the drop on enemies everything dies before they even know what hit them. If they're ambushed, everything is CCed and then dies before they know what hit them.

[TallBearNC]

LOL my melee people take things down 2-4X faster than a mage does.



Well if you're on EASY mode then mages will be better.. try all those AOES on hard or normal and you will FRY your party

[nuculerman]

yeah... you've clearly never played a mage party or you don't know how to. That statement doesn't even make sense. No one gets fried. You have three mages casting AoEs on an area where only enemies and your tank are standing. Your tank is surrounded by a forcefield. It's way overkill.



How quickly can your melee party clear out a room? I will be my bottom dollar that my blood mage can take out a room of 6 or more enemies 10x faster than your entire melee party. And that's only with fireball, inferno, the glyff combo and blood wound. On hard if you come to a room full of enemies, all you do is cast blood wound and they're all paralyzed and take damage. Then you cast two glyffs and they're all paralyzed for 15 seconds. Then you cast fireball and inferno and everything in that room is dead before the inferno spell is even done. That's on normal. With one mage. With just fire.



If you have three mages the same thing goes for nightmare only it's even easier than with one mage on normal. Your melee party can't take out a single target faster than mages. Mages have multiple instakills. Have Morrigan cast cone of cold and wynne cast stone fist and your mage cast crushing prison and morrigan cast crushing prison. It just took you 4 seconds to kill three enemies. Your melee party can't do that. Sorry. Surrounded by 6 or more enemies. Hmm. Cast Blood Wound. Run away. Cast storm of the century between you and Morrigan. Cast Fireball and cast chain lightning. Everyone dies. There's really no comparison. If you actually played a mage party I'm sure you'd quickly realize this instead of spewing nonsense.

[mufuti7]

I am amazed how obsessed people are with class balance.

I am rolling with one mage, Morrigan, because this is the only mage character I enjoy taking along.

Never had any problem until I felt like slaying a High Dragon which would have probably not gone that much smoother with one or two more mages.

This game is not a Diablo style RPG, you dont have to clear every room as fast as possible. I can not imagine anything more boring than running with a 3 mage party, not being able to take a rogue with me is one thing, having to take the sleep-inducing Wynne with me another. But being forced to playa man dressed in women clothing... there is a line I will not cross :-D



the thing is, mages have insane aoe abilities. But a mostly melee group is able to manage the game just fine, there is virtually no downside to it because it does not matter if you need a little longer to kill all the badies..



If anything I think people who are running around with 3 mage-parties and are not playing at least on hard are ruining the game for themselves.

[ComTrav]

There are certain fights where setting up the room of AoE Death is harder. (Any fight that starts from dialogue, for instance.) I really think the solution to this issue (such as it is) would be more anti-magic enemies. Enemies with spell immunity, enemies with Templar-like abilities, etc.



And...when you get right down to it, it's a single-player game, and if you like rolling with a 3-mage/1-tank party instead of trying to use melee, well, you paid for it. On Nightmare it's certainly possible to win with a more balanced party composition.

[apantoliani]

Warrior + Berserk + AoE (dual wield) line = kekekeke. I can't accidently hit my own teammates too! Which is good, otherwise Alistair and Zev/Lelianna would be hamburger.

[nuculerman]

ComTrav wrote...

There are certain fights where setting up the room of AoE Death is harder. (Any fight that starts from dialogue, for instance.) I really think the solution to this issue (such as it is) would be more anti-magic enemies. Enemies with spell immunity, enemies with Templar-like abilities, etc.

And...when you get right down to it, it's a single-player game, and if you like rolling with a 3-mage/1-tank party instead of trying to use melee, well, you paid for it. On Nightmare it's certainly possible to win with a more balanced party composition.

It isn't.  On nightmare it's easiest to win with three mages. 

I'm not complaining about anything.  I play on hard with one mage, as I've stated.  That's the great thing about this game.  You can tailor it to your play style and the challenge you want.  I'm simply pointing out the obvious.  Anyone who has TRIED three mages will quickly realize that a three mage party is the most broken party for every battle except Gax.

And as I've stated multiple times.  If you're ambushed, cast blood wound and run away.  Problem solved.  Cast blood control on anyone that resists.  They almost never manage to.  I solo'ed the maleficar side quest in the Berelain forest on hard by doing this with just a blood mage.  It's a complete joke.  Mind blast, Blood Magic.  Blood Wound.  Inferno.  Glyff of repulsion.  Glyff of paralysis.  Both white mages died in 10 seconds.  Both yellow mages were stunned long enough so I picked them off before they could attack me.

Now give Morrigan chain lightning and blizzard and bring her.  And give Wynn maxed out spirit healer and earthquake.  If you get jumped, cast blood wound, move everyone out.  If you don't then... cast blood wound and start casting AoE attacks.  I agree.  It's not even fun.  But whoever is trying to claim four melee party members is equally effective at ANYTHING is full of crap.  The mages can handle an ambush better.  THe mages can set a trap better.  The mages can kill faster.  The mages can do more DPS/area.  There's absolutely no competition.  I remember in the old forums someone said the difficulty levels actually went like this:

Easy: Three mage party
Normal: Two mage party
Hard: One mage party
Nightmare: No mage party

That's prettty acurate.  Of course, three stealth maxed rogues is also a pretty broken set up, so the description obviously isn't completely accurate, but it conveys the proper message.  Mage parties are OPed.   I don't have a problem with that because you CHOOSE YOUR PARTY, so the game is only as difficult or as entertaining as you want it to be, but still... there's nothing wrong with stating facts.

[metatrans]

mages aren't overpowered in general, but there are certain spells that are abuseable.



this thread has already discussed the Taunt+Force Field tricks. thats basically abuse. the fact that the enemies keep whacking him anyway. its one thing to go "immune from harm" to keep someone alive, its another to expect enemies to keep beating on him. bad programming of the AI and in my opinion this is an exploit. if you're not bothered by it go ahead and use it, single player after all, but in my game i don't use it. it trivializes the core mechanics of the game and i find it unfun.



the other abusive thing is cone of cold. its freeze component appears to have no failure chance at all. it even freezes orange bosses that are immune to all other crowd control. it also freezes frost immune enemies who take no damage from it. this also seems like bad programming and in my opinion is near exploit levels. i still find the spell incredibly useful but i do not attempt to play the game in such a way that i have multiple mages rotating Cone of Cold. the CoC rotation strategy can keep even boss enemies on permanent lockdown. its similarly exploitative to Force Field + Taunt because it trivializes core game mechanics and i find it unfun.

[Tonya777]

Wow , thats absolutley freaking genius to have 3 mages and a tank who taunts then gets force field thrown on him while the mages destroy everyone lol

[Dark83]

Sarcenn wrote...

Zarenthar wrote...

Force field should be removed from the game tbh it's way too efficient.

Something less drastic like making sure AI does not attack someone in forcefield will fix it too, so if you force field your warrior it just goes for your mages.

They should have the AI cast Crushing Prison on Forcefields, hehe.

[nuculerman]

I agree with metatrans. I don't use taunt/force field. And I don't give any mage but Morrigan cone of cold. And I don't even use her. My main character, the one where I'm actually going for close to 100% game completion, is a spirit healer/blood mage with glyffs, inferno, crushing prison, and petrify. I play with Allistair, Ohgren and Lelianna. The only time I use force field is if I'm the last one standing and mind blast isn't recharged. Then I use force field, mind blast, revival, group heal. I think that's how force field was inteded to be used.



I'm sure they'll release a patch for it. I disagree though that enemies shouldn't attack shielded allies. I think it should be like walking into a glyff of repulsion. Every time they attack they have a chance to figure out what they're doing is useless. I don't think taunt/force field would be OPed if it worked on nearby weak enemies. But the fact it works on every single nearby enemy, regardless of level, basically indefinitely, makes it way broken.



I also think cone of cold will be patched. I hope the earth line is boosted as well. Cold makes the two higher earth line powers almost useless. Cone of cold is far more effective than petrify at stoping enemies in their tracks and blizzard is far better at AoE cc than earthquake, which to me seems like is most likely to harm your allies than your enemies (I swear it's resisted by at least 60% of enemies on hard).

[The Dead Milkman]

Melee characters might be useless if you're using 3 mages. But my first playthrough was a warrior. I still had 2 mages, but they didn't do much other than heal/support my two melee guys.