149 réponses à ce sujet

[Zilod]

well considering all groups need a tank i will not say that melee is useless... whers the problem? you need a tank as much as you need an healer... rogues still do good single target dps and can almost instapop grunts

this is not an mmo, thers no need for perfect class balance, even in D&D mages and cleric where essential so (again) whers the problem? no one forces you to have 3 mages in group, an healer is more than enought to complete the game and with a bit of effort you can do that with just potions too

if anything melee classes should get an higher action regeneration or reduced cost for moves so to be more varied but this to make them funnier and more varied

Modifié par Zilod, 23 novembre 2009 - 10:19 .

[RedShft]

DW rogues are quite fun. 'nuff said.

[Iggynous]

id like to see your mage pick a lock

[BigNerv]

Iggynous wrote...

id like to see your mage pick a lock

You pick your lock while any mage would clear complete dungeons !

[velmyn]

Sarcenn wrote...

Zarenthar wrote...

Force field should be removed from the game tbh it's way too efficient.

Something less drastic like making sure AI does not attack someone in forcefield will fix it too, so if you force field your warrior it just goes for your mages.

I'd still rate Force Field to be the most effective CC in the game even so. That's how good it is..,(sigh)

Locking out any single target from the fight indefinitely until you want to deal with it is good enough...the fact that you can abuse it as a tanking mechanic only adds a whole truckload of insult to injury. Not to mention it's pretty nifty when Emissaries use crushing prison on your tank, only to have all its allies fly back as you shockwave the tank.

[Ferret A Baudoin]

Mages are pretty powerful, granted. But a DW rogue with runed weapons and the proper talents is scary. Like, "look over your back right now to make sure there's no one else in the house, OMG he's backstabbing my eyes!" scary.

[Forumtroll]

You don't need a tank in this game. That's how much three mages trivialize the game. I'd rather take a rogue than a tank.

[Ace Attorney]

My DW Warrior out damages any mage, even AoE.

Berserk + Rally + Bravery + Momentum + AoE attacks (Whirlwind, Blood Fury, Dual-Weapon Sweep) = Darkspawn milkshake

[Wompoo]

Zilod wrote...

well considering all groups need a tank i will not say that melee is useless... whers the problem? you need a tank as much as you need an healer... rogues still do good single target dps and can almost instapop grunts

this is not an mmo, thers no need for perfect class balance, even in D&D mages and cleric where essential so (again) whers the problem? no one forces you to have 3 mages in group, an healer is more than enought to complete the game and with a bit of effort you can do that with just potions too

if anything melee classes should get an higher action regeneration or reduced cost for moves so to be more varied but this to make them funnier and more varied

I agree.

People who wish to play the game with forcefield or cone of cold/3 mage cakewalks should be allowed. their game their time and their enjoyment. For those who know that certain combinations create an easy game, simply avoid them, if you do not like the outcome... if you do not avoid them, then you are being foolish... just don't build that group composition if you disagree or dislike. I'll roll play the game, so generally story is far far more important to me then the whining of mini/maxers that I have seen in so many DnD games over the years.

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[T0rin3]

Because I can solo Nightmare with a rogue, does that make mages useless? No, not really.

[simpatikool]

I think Melee characters are fun.



My favorite group currently is Sten/my PC being supported by a mage and other ranged DPS. Mage really just heals.

[Imryll]

relhart wrote...

Yes, melee is not as powerful as casting (or even close) this isn't a problem caused by melee being worthless though, it's caused by casters being completely broken game mechanic wise. If I couldn't run full melee groups, I would have gotten bored of this game awhile ago.

I agree those who have said that Force Field should drop aggro, but I'm enjoying my warriors and rogues and consider it a strength rather than a weakness that I can fine tune difficulty level via party make-up. If running three mages and a tank is fun for you, do it!  If you don't find it fun, then use other classes. I typically use a warrior tank, a lock picker (cause I need to know what's in all those chests), and one mage.  The fourth slot is my rotating banter slot.  Sometimes the fourth party member will be a mage, but it's just  as likely to be a rogue or warrior.

[Ginnerben]

I'd be very curious to see someone running a trip-Rogue squad on Nightmare. I'm doing mine on Hard, and I have to admit I find the early game a bit tough (Didn't take Stealth high enough). But I think that's me being bad as a Rogue. Honestly, my DW Warrior does so much more damage than my mage its ridiculous. The only advantage my Mage has is that she stuns whole rooms while doing the damage.



Since the DW Warrior doesn't care if you try to hit him, its pretty balanced

[Zamav]

Story of the Century
Entropic Death
Blood Wound
Crushing Prison
Cone of Cold

These are the spells and combos you can get with all of your mages via careful planning. I dont think anything can stand the Storm of the Century + Entropic Death + Blood Would 3 times in a row. Throw an earthquake or two and you'll end up wondering if its really "Nightmare" you are playing.

We only have access to 3 Mages including PC. Otherwise, you wouldn't really need a tank if you can have 4 Blood Wound, Cone of Cold and Crushing Prison.

Personally, 2 Mages is more than enough for me (1 dedicated healer rather than a mage, but still). I'd go for 3 Mages only if I'm going for Arcane Warrior.

Modifié par Zamav, 23 novembre 2009 - 08:09 .

[breaker85]

I am going to have a completely disagree that mages are any better then melee.  I made a dual weapon wielding human rouge and played through the entire game on nightmare difficulty with no problem whatsoever.  My party was Sten, Me, Morrigan, and Wynne and I raked.  I didnt hardly even use AoE.  If you make your skills right and get the right equipment melee can be awesome.  I was doing 80 damage or more per backstab and was able to stun, whirlwind, and use the momentum talent so I was literally doing almost 80 damage once every second and a half.  If you make your character the right way, you can own much better with a melee then a mage.

[UnAffectedFiddle]

I think the only problem is the huge range of toys Mages get, verse the hyper specislisation of melee. One spell tree dosent negate the other i.e. A warrior is using a shield, dual wielding or using a two hander and thats it. A mage can go for some CC, nab some defensive buffs, some stuns, a heal, undead companion, weapon buffs, powerful AoE and so on.

[RamsenC]

I have a three mage party and oghren (respeced to DW) is the star of the show.



Nothing does as much damage as him and he can take massive amounts of damage as well. I'm playing on nightmare and he kills things in 2 to 3 rounds of combat which is about 2 seconds or less.



In fact I wish I could get rid of one of my mages for another duel wield warrior, but I don't want to mess with Allistar.

[Zarenthar]

DPS wise on single target melee may be relatively stronger but it's irrelevant considering you spend most of the game fighting packs of mobs... Mages are simply more efficient and versatile and that's a fact. I had to put the game on nightmare during my first playthrough because my 3 mage 1 tank setup was simply too destructive. I virtually never used mana and healing pots too I just used 2-3 on bosses.

[RamsenC]

Packs go down like nothing either way though. All you need is one blood wound and whatever pack you are fighting is done for. Now for bosses the single target dps of a melee class is invaluable. I'd say 2 mages and 2 dw warriors is the perfect group for destruction. Replacing one of the warriors with a dw rogue should be awesome as well.

All I'm saying is two mages is enough, you get diminishing returns eventually. A balanced party is better than a mage only party.

Modifié par RamsenC, 24 novembre 2009 - 12:02 .

[Ulrik the Slayer]

If you wanna go down this route: All characters except Mages are useless.



Damage dealer? Mage.



Healer? Mage.



Tank? Mage. (see the spell Force Field).



Problem is they made too few classes, and the Mage was allowed to cover up for the healer/supporter class as well as damage-dealer.

[Mork_ba]

I think that DW rogue with Coup de Grace and runed for paralysis is sick, really. Dunno if it's better with daggers or swords (I tried dual swords cause I wasn't sure what's going on with daggers and dexterity/cunning issues at the time) but at least swords(strength build) kicks butt... I guess that daggers should be better, but I didn't try it cause I was unsure about the mechanics...





You can try 2 archers chaining scattershots too...





Btw, regarging spells, try other spells than primal too... They are too good to be ignored (Mass paralysis and sleep are a couple awsome ones)







Btw, I think that on nightmare difficulty you will get a couple reloads here and there as scattershotting archers on high levels do get annoying and when packed kill mages quite fast Though if you know the fight already you can prevent that quite easily

[Mork_ba]

RamsenC wrote...

Packs go down like nothing either way though. All you need is one blood wound and whatever pack you are fighting is done for. Now for bosses the single target dps of a melee class is invaluable. I'd say 2 mages and 2 dw warriors is the perfect group for destruction. Replacing one of the warriors with a dw rogue should be awesome as well.

All I'm saying is two mages is enough, you get diminishing returns eventually. A balanced party is better than a mage only party.

Aye, would be a pity to miss on all those chests and traps and doors... Plus one gets the swords and the other the daggers

[Ulrik the Slayer]

Problem with an archery-oriented character is that they just don't even compare to Mages and are outshined in every aspect.

[End Game]

Ulrik the Slayer wrote...

If you wanna go down this route: All characters except Mages are useless.

Damage dealer? Mage.

Healer? Mage.

Tank? Mage. (see the spell Force Field).

Problem is they made too few classes, and the Mage was allowed to cover up for the healer/supporter class as well as damage-dealer.

Ex-freakin'-actly. That was an oversight, whether people want to admit it or not.

Modifié par End Game, 24 novembre 2009 - 12:14 .

[Zarenthar]

RamsenC there is no such thing as diminishing returns in DAO this isn't WoW?!