53 réponses à ce sujet

[yesikareyes]

I remember the first time I played Dragon Age 2, I wanted Bethany with me all the time. I really had no difficulty choosing her over Carver. I think she had more rapport with Hawke regardless of the gender chosen. Anyway, I had a feeling that something could happen in the Deep Roads when I was treated to a cutscene with Mama Hawke telling me not to bring Bethany (or was it Bethany who nagged me to bring her?). So she died because I didn't bring Anders (I never use him) and I was so distraught that I opted to play the game again from the very beginning! 

On my second run, I chose to let her stay behind and eventually be part of the circle. I think that was better than her becoming a Grey Warden! Although I did find it cool that she's rollin' with Alistair now during my other playthrough! (Anora is queen and The Warden is consort in my canon) I just felt like it was wrong to deprive her of a long life by going through the joining. It would simply be unfair, but what do you guys think? 

[yfullman]

I actually feel that joining the warden's was the better fate for her. She spent her entire life hiding away from the chantry and the Circle, being little more than a burden to her family. Then suddenly she becomes a warden. She now supersedes the desires of the Circle and the Chantry and can actually become her own person instead of just being a helpless little girl who has to be protected by her older brothers.

[yesikareyes]

You do have a valid point there but Bethany looks angrier at Hawke when she's with the Grey Wardens so it broke my heart to see that.

[yfullman]

Yeah I felt the same lol. But I feel as far as far as storytelling goes, that is the right way to go, and to me it seems like the only way Bethany really gets any development. We can infer pretty accurately what the relationship with the Hawke siblings was like. Bethany was introspective, agreeable, and just thankful to have a family to protect her. Carver was resentful of having to build his life around protecting his apostate family and living in Hawke's shadow.

If taken by the Circle, Bethany is exactly the same as when she was in the beginning of the game. A timid follower who looks to her sibling to make things right and is just as thankful to have Hawke as she always was. And that seemed like another well of potential that DA2 decided not to tap . From what we saw, living in the Circle at that point should of been hell due to Meredith's going extra crazy by acts 2 and 3. Bethany should have been a wreck. The worse fear she had growing up had suddenly become reality...but things were just peachy anyway lol. Its like every other mage is made tranquil or goes OMGBLOODMAGIC GOOO!!!!111 but she is just okay no matter what lol. That really bothered me.

But when she is forced to join the wardens she changes. She comes to truly resent her brother. Whether its from having the life of the Wardens forced on her, or maybe its long buried feelings from growing up, who knows. Maybe bethany felt the same as carver did, about living in Hawke's shadow, but since rocking the boat would have meant circle or death, she just buried it and quietly accepted her role. But once she became a warden all the chains of her past were broken. The fears of the Circle were gone forever, and thus the reason for living the life of a stepford sister under Hawke were gone as well. Maybe she just didn't know what that meant she could do with herself since her entire identity was gone and she felt that Hawke had just cast her aside at the first opportunity because he had finally had enough of the responsibility. But by act 3 she has obviously worked though whatever problems she had and comes to her brother's rescue in the end. Maybe I'm over thinking it but it just seems almost poetic to me haha

[sylvanaerie]

Personally, I prefer Bethany as a Circle mage. As a warden she may be out of the Circle, yes, but she's been trapped by a far worse circumstance. Living with the taint, battling every day for the rest of her life till her Calling (Remember this is a girl who didn't want a life of always running and fighting), nightmares, shortened life span. Being a warden is not a kindness or a 'get out of the circle free' card, it's a calling and NOT an easy life.

From the letter you get from her in Act 2, she seems content in the Circle. She's found a purpose there (teaching the young mages - one of them is the girl Anders kills in his Act 2 quest if you don't prevent it) and she quickly learns which templars to avoid (not all of them are sh*t heads like Alric) and she's among peers who understand her and what she's going through as a mage.

*Edit* Plus, the act 3 scene with Orsino in the Gallows makes for a much more dramatic confrontation with Circle Bethany when she finds out he helped Quentin.

By Act 3 she has it sorted out what she wants (either life) though so it's really up to the player. I just think Bethany is actually happier as a Circle mage than a Grey Warden.

The idea of her and Alistair kicking butt is appealing. I may do my Alistair GW game as an import next playthrough just to see them together

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 17 décembre 2011 - 06:49 .

[brightblueink]

There doesn't really seem to be a "right" choice for Bethany...with Carver it's pretty obvious that he's happiest as a Templar, but it seems like no matter what you do for Beth she's not in an ideal situation. I'm currently playing through a game where Bethany was killed in the deep roads, and even that's interesting from a story perspective since once you go through All That Remains it means that Hawke is really and truly ALONE, which is fun to mess with while role playing. (Although I do wish that if your sibling was killed in the Deep Roads that it had more of an affect on Varric's personal quest in Act II.)

I guess, when it comes right down to it, I find basically every "fate" for her interesting. Which is nice, because that means I'm not tempted to make the same choices over and over again concerning her.

[CrimsonZephyr]

brightblueink wrote...

There doesn't really seem to be a "right" choice for Bethany...with Carver it's pretty obvious that he's happiest as a Templar, but it seems like no matter what you do for Beth she's not in an ideal situation. I'm currently playing through a game where Bethany was killed in the deep roads, and even that's interesting from a story perspective since once you go through All That Remains it means that Hawke is really and truly ALONE, which is fun to mess with while role playing. (Although I do wish that if your sibling was killed in the Deep Roads that it had more of an affect on Varric's personal quest in Act II.)

I guess, when it comes right down to it, I find basically every "fate" for her interesting. Which is nice, because that means I'm not tempted to make the same choices over and over again concerning her.

Well, she does get a happy ending if she's a Circle Mage and you side with the Mages. Sure, there's a war on, but the Circles have broken away and she doesn't have the Taint.

[Heidenreich]

Carver is far happier as a Warden, and Bethany is far happier as a Circle Mage.

;p

[yesikareyes]

I prefer Bethany without the taint and I don't know I guess if we were living in the universe of Dragon Age, I would want my sister to join the circle rather than be The Grey Warden. Ultimately, it's a selfish decision because it stems mostly from my need to protect the younger one. I'm also assuming that the life of a Grey Warden is hard for Bethany. It's unfair for her since I'm deciding what she can or cannot endure. However, in the end it did seem like she appreciated what I've done for her when I placed her in the circle.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Being in the Circle is way better based on what is a better and healthier life for her. But storytelling wise, which one is better depends on what you think works better for any individual playthrough. I think being a Warden adds an interesting tragic twist.

[CrimsonZephyr]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Being in the Circle is way better based on what is a better and healthier life for her. But storytelling wise, which one is better depends on what you think works better for any individual playthrough. I think being a Warden adds an interesting tragic twist.

Being a Warden is a wasted life if there's no Blight. You either become a great hero or you wither and die. It's an all-or-nothing sort of deal. Plus, this game had way too much angst. Making Bethany another cookie-cutter emo just felt excessive.

[Gervaise]

The reason Bethany doesn't get hassled in the Circle is because she is, by Meredith's own admission, an exemplary mage. Also the fact that her mother keeps in contact and they are nobility probably means the unsavoury elements would steer clear. You will notice that on the whole, the ones they prey on are from the peasant classes or elves, who have been cut off from their families so there is no one to ask questions if anything happens to them. Meredith does have a habit of sucking up to the nobility and letting them off lightly if they help their runaway relatives but sending her hit squad after people in lowtown who shelter apostates

It adds several elements to the choices of Hawke during Act 3. If you initially refuse to do Meredith's dirty work, she holds an implied threat over Bethany to get you to do it and of course it makes the final decision virtually a no brainer unless you couldn't care less about her.

She does develop as a character because when you talk with her at the end in the Gallows, she says she realises how lucky she was to have been brought up outside the Circle and also that her magic came from the Maker and so it is nothing to be ashamed of. She came across to me as being a much stronger person at the end than she was at the beginning and she'd learnt a few swear words (in MoA) Plus if you still have a certain Starkhaven Prince on your side and you haven't romanced him yourself, it is clear there is a definite attraction between the two of them. I'd definitely say that Bethany long term has a brighter future outside of the Wardens.

[Bayz]

Making Bethany a mage will mean that she might end up contacting a good spirit of the fade and live a long prosper life, kinda like Wynne.

Making her a Warden would mean that she will end up dying in 30 years, in a forgotten thaig battling Darkspawn...if she is lucky

Those are the facts, pick your choice

[yesikareyes]

I'm sticking to my circle decision, thank you!

[TEWR]

both have their pros and cons. But what's important is looking at it from Bethany's perspective.
But if you were to look at it from a perspective not of Bethany's -- though some will indeed be things she also sees -- then the pros and cons would be something like this:

Circle Mage Pros:

1) Bethany is happy being with her people
2) Bethany will live a longer life than she would as a Warden
3) Regularly visited by the family, due to the family's recently acquired wealth.
4) She learns things about how to appropriately view magic.
5) She's near the Templars Keran, Thrask, and Cullen. Among Kirkwall, Cullen is a moderate.
6) She pretty much pwns the Templars that put her through the Harrowing immediately in the hopes that she'd fail.
7) She can have kids.

Circle Mage Cons:

1) She's near the Templars like Kerras, Alrik, Meredith, and the rest of those zealots.
2) She doesn't get to be with her family anymore. She can see them, but that's not the same as being with them.
3) Risk of Tranquility
4) Risk of the RoA

Warden Mage Pros:

1) She'll be safe from the Chantry and Templars. Theoretically anyway, as I think the Chantry -- or at least rogue elements within the now-fractured Chantry -- are moving against the Wardens.
2) She'll be fighting Darkspawn.
3) She starts to see the world in a different light.
4) She can still be with her people, but not in the same amount of numbers. She can be with other Warden Mages.

possibly more.

Warden Mage Cons:

1) She'll be fighting Darkspawn.
2) She's slowly dying and only has 30 years to live.
3) Plagued by agonizing nightmares that grow worse over time. If she's lucky, she can blot them out. But given what's happened, she isn't able to.
4) These events make her sad. Rightfully so, as it wasn't a fate she wanted.
5) She'll be lucky if she can even have kids after becoming a Warden.

possibly more.

All in all, I find making her a Circle Mage the more satisfying route. Though I dislike the scene used to take her away, as given Kirkwall's stance regarding magic there weren't nearly enough Templars for Hawke to simply let it happen. 2 Templars isn't enough. There should've been 50. And were it me, I would've had Meredith, Cullen, and Thrask leading them.

While she is still around Kerras, Alrik, and other Templars; I like to roleplay Tobias Hawke as killing all of the anti-mage Templars as a way of protecting Bethany while she's in the Circle.

Kerras is a dick to mages. An impotent one I'm betting. He's dead. Bethany won't be subject to his "methods" anymore.

Alrik illegally Tranquils mages -- and Meredith's lack of reprimanding him when a Templar reported this to her means she approved of it -- and then takes advantage of them. He's dead. Bethany won't be subject to any illegal Tranquilizations anymore.

There are other anti-mage Templars. Some named, some not. I kill them all. That way, I remove the Templars that might do something to Bethany.

[lobi]

yesikareyes wrote...

You do have a valid point there but Bethany looks angrier at Hawke when she's with the Grey Wardens so it broke my heart to see that.

metagaming huh. I usually stay away from the spoiler sections.
Circle Bethany retains some naivete. Warden Bethany is more worldly.  Same goes for Carver.
Neither survived the deep roads for me on their first runs because I hated Anders.
Even after I knew, I tended to leave them behind rather than take him.
But I did the warden route once for each to explore the story. Hardley worth putting up with Anders.

[sylvanaerie]

Ethereal, You forgot the best "Circle mage pro" is that at the end of the game, Bethany is free of the circle. Warden Bethany, even if she wishes to, can never lay down that mantle and be free.

[TEWR]

Ethereal, You forgot the best "Circle mage pro" is that at the end of the game, Bethany is free of the circle. Warden Bethany, even if she wishes to, can never lay down that mantle and be free.

Ah quite true!

You can never really leave the Wardens. You can stop being a Warden, but you'll always be tainted. In that, you're always a Warden.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 18 décembre 2011 - 06:13 .

[sylvanaerie]

Of course I Warden or Circle the surviving sibling according to what would fit best with my playthrough (Or what scenes I want later with them in DLC's now, since my sib is always with me in those. I have done runs with both versions of them. My warriors made her a circle mage and (one of them) sided templars because I love the drama of siding with the templars on those runs and protecting baby sister from the psycho K-C, my rogue made her a GW and my mages go half and half on Carver. I play more mages than anything else since the class is so damn diversified, each one can be different.

My "canon" if I can be said to have one, is William, a mage. His brother is a Grey Warden. Carver just seems much happier as one and has found a purpose doing something greater than himself.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 18 décembre 2011 - 01:52 .

[Bayz]

It is undestandable being jealous of characters having...choices and stuff...then again ultimately it is you the one deciding if she lives or joins one or the other isn't it? She simply complies to your choice.

[Dave of Canada]

Kill her after siding with the Templar.
Better than having her tranquil or die in the Deep Roads (or turn into a broodmother).

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 19 décembre 2011 - 10:26 .

[yesikareyes]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Kill her after siding with the Templar.
Better than having her tranquil or die in the Deep Roads (or turn into a broodmother).

Well if she's with Hawke, then there's no chance of her becoming tranquil at the hands of the templar! bwahahaha

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

This is precisely why I created the following topic.

http://social.biowar...5/index/8902958

Bethany is so sweet, lovable, and adorable. It's my first playthrough of DA II. I'm really torn over this decision. Seeing her catch the blight sickness and her reaction made me want to give her a big hug. I haven't felt this much sympathy for a character since Metal Gear Solid 4 (Solid Snake, in case you're wondering).

While it wouldn't be all bad to think about her hanging out with Alistair, and maybe even King Cousland, it still wouldn't be very fair to her. I'm planning to side with the mages anyway.

[AliceEmile]

Regardless of her outcome in standing in the dragonAge universe, Anders being the only healer during act two if the player is *not a mage is an ultimatum.

I cannot see any other choice for players who choose away from Anders, and I will not play him over the other choices.

Playing on Hard or Nightmare, I'm not playing DragonAge because of this blackball.