53 réponses à ce sujet

[TcheQ]

This was my first playthrough.  WIthout knowing entirely what I was doing, where I was going, or even if I would have the patience to finish.  In the end, it was worth it, and an extremely satisfying ending. I think I was level 16 at the end.  A little over 63 hours.  But the end battles were easy?  Was this an error?

Started as an elf mage, who dual-classed as Arcane Warrior.
Speed Bump 1.
Went to redcliffe, An hour long battle getting rid of those zombies. :/  They were tough, especially when they are immune to magic.   Everyone had died but me.  My tactic eventually involved dragging groups of them to a lone knight (all other NPCs were on the floor) at the top of the hill, and running around in circles till they were dead.  Fortunately, I could heal myself, but that was it.

Speed Bump 2
Dragon in Brecilian Forest.
At the first meeting this thing it killed my party in about 5 seconds.  So I just turned around to go and do some other quests.  The mages tower was much easier for my party.  I returned to it when I had Zevran in my party, and some Orzammar armor parts/better equipped party. I used Zevran to sneak into the werewolf lair past a thousand zombies+wolves.  I still couldn't beat a Devouring Skeleton face to face.  When I finally met Zathrian, I was lucky that wild sylvan trees can't fit through small doorways.

Speed Bump 3
Thug Leader
I had beaten Piotin in the arena, but I couldn't beat this guy there and then.  So turned around and went to Denerim, Back to the Brecilian, to the Frostback mountains.  By this time, Both my mage and morrigan had time-freeze (or whatever the spell is called that is basically Otiluke's Resilient Sphere) so they could take turns to stop the leader while the rest of my party barely survived the other three dwarves.

Speed Bump 3a
Jarvia
This one was very frustrating.  Nowhere to run.  Jarvia resists mosts of my spells, then hides in the shadows and three hits and my mages are dead.  The part where she would call more foes to help her was the killer on this part.  After completing everything else there was to complete, I went back to Jarvia.  I had actually tried twice before, with no success.  One time I had snuck through with Zevran (and Jarvia still made a point I had killed all her men, but hadn't) the next time I got halfway through the tunnels, but found great difficulty killing off the emissaries.  Third time, I set all my party to ranged, and hid them in the doorway.  Freezing Jarvia while I picked off all the others.  In the second time she calls on her men to help, two of them were not visible from the doorway, making it slighlty easier.  By some good fortune, she ended up switching to ranged combat herself, and it was just a matter of continual healing to end it.

Speed Bump 4
Branka
Argh.  I was ready to rage quit this one.  My party at the time i think was morrigan, wynne , me oghren.  And I would get slaughtered in 20 seconds
By some freak occurence, i managed , and becuase I had read a hint here on the forums about the lyrium veins, nothing nasty happened when Branka was on low health.  To get to branka, I had used Zevran to sneak past everything he could.  One stone golem was enough to kill my party outright, but I was able to get lucky with the otiluke-sphering of branka. And then have my chracters run aroun in cricles for 30minutes.

Speed Bump 5
Ser Cauthrien - Landsmeet Annexe
Party Stunned
Party Stunned
Party Stunned
Your journey ends here.
Finally got lucky with otiluke's sphere (by this time I am using my mage as a fighter who can tank, but still dies very quickly to cauthrien) luckily my mage gets about 90 health from a lesser poultice.  SO I can heal and tank while the rest of my party finsihed off those archers.  Wynne is dead by this point. and then my mage dies suddenly (whoops) so I spend the next 15 minutes tagteaming alistair+morrigan


Final Battles.
I didn't know if this was intended, but basically a whole heap of low level hurlocks+genlocks spawned (level 0).  They took one hit.  Normal hurlocks+genlocks were a whole lot harder. SO these battles Weren't that challenging.  When I was defending the gates (oghren and zevran) oghren just focussed on killing yellow-texts... zevran didn't even get involved :/) 
The final battle took me two tries.  Finished with Mabari (good doggie knows how to use balistas)
, Wynne and Loghain. In my troops I had 46 archers and about 30 footmen left (the dwarves had helped me route the dragon thralls), and mages had helped vs a general. Had started the final with 50 of each except mages with 12.  I couldn't help but think the battles in Fort Drakon, at least compared to the battles before it seemed so much easier?

Still, my party got annihilated by two yellow-text ogres..so....meh

As for other non-main quest beasts.

I can't kill flemeth, I can't kill the high dragon. Too tough.

Very satisfied with the ending. Thanks Bioware   You made me care about my characters and their wellbeing.

And now to play a human Noble Rogue with a mutt called TeyrnBaste, who pilfers everything in sight.. I'm already heartbroken over the beginning to this story

Have fun everyone.

Modifié par TcheQ, 29 novembre 2009 - 03:00 .

[Anourugs]

I think the entire reason Bioware throws one shottable Darkspawn at you at the end is to give you a false sense of your own power progression having grown so that these previous enemies who were a major pain in The Wilds suddenly die to your power. Its sort of ruined though since those assassin Darkspawn are still really hard to kill.

[The Capital Gaultier]

You don't have to fight Ser Cauthrien, and if you do fight her and die, just wait. Apparently, it takes you to the next area automatically.

[HoLyEmperor]

I can't kill flemeth, I can't kill the high dragon. Too tough.

Just have Shale or Allistair taunt, then put it or him in a force field.  Stand back and whittle the dragon down as it whacks away at the immune target.  Not a fun or satisfying tactic, but it works.

My third playthrough was on Nightmare, and I can't really say it was subjectively harder than my first playthrough on Normal.  Just be careful, pause a lot, and (most importantly) make every use of terrain and crowd control.  If you run into something that just tears you apart (like a dragon), come back in a few levels and it'll be more tame.

[HoLyEmperor]

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

You don't have to fight Ser Cauthrien, and if you do fight her and die, just wait. Apparently, it takes you to the next area automatically.

The first time, yes. 

[nuculerman]

can you actually beat her the first time? I'd love to see the video of that. I tried on normal and my whole party dies in two seconds. Earthquake doesn't knock down a single archer. Blood wound and fireball can only hit 4/8 archers. If you try to run Morrigan close enough to use cone of cold on four archers while you blood wound or fireball the other four, the four you didn't CC attack before she's close enough to freeze them all.



Every single archer has the AoE stun with fire arrows, and they all cast that right off. Everyone in my party dies with one volley on normal difficulty. I didn't even bother on easy when I found out I could just break out of prison later. I didn't see how it would have gone any better. I suppose if you made morrigan a bm, and used blood wound on each set of archers, or invested three points to fireball with her, and you had a mage, then it might be possible. But what a waste just so you can beat one boss fight. Otherwise I fail to see how anyone can beat it. It's not even a micromanaging problem. Everyone is dead before you can start micromanaging.

[Zehnn]

Just pull her to another room and the archers, if they even do follow(they didn't when I did this), would be bunched up enough to crowd control very easily. She still hits ridiculously hard, though, and I was forced to heal my tank every chance I had.

[TcheQ]

Oh yes I should have mentioned I got imprisoned and had to kill Cauthrien in the atrium to the Landsmeet. 

Anourugs wrote...

I think the entire reason Bioware throws one shottable Darkspawn at you at the end is to give you a false sense of your own power progression having grown so that these previous enemies who were a major pain in The Wilds suddenly die to your power. Its sort of ruined though since those assassin Darkspawn are still really hard to kill.

Maybe you are right. 
I am reminded of NWN:Hordes of the Underdark by this bit where there is that Devil near the end of the ice kingdom who spawns all those really easy-kills (and it's a lot of fun with a monk who has greater cleave and kills eight at once )

It was actually a relief to have such an easy enemy (though bosses genlock assassin and the hurlock generals were pretty hard, the dragon thrall area I don't think is possible without calling allies (archers to the rescue!))

As for the dragon tactic, i might try that one time (I actually used it a bit on BG/BGII to freeze my own guys).  DOes it work on Nightmare though? (typically, forcefield wears out when recharge is 33%)

Flemeth initial attack on me is always Dragon Breath.  Dragon Breath makes me sad to be 50% health in one second  Wynne can't heal fast enough.  Then Alastair get's too close and chompchomp yumyum game over.

It wasn't crucial to my character's storyline to save morrigan (since she wasn't going to put out to a chick) and she left anyway when Loghain didn't wanna screw her. ****.

One thing I didn't try is the epic-flee tactic vs Cauthrien in that first bit.  I used it against Caladrius (that area kinda sucks actually lol), but with Cauthrien the rescuing was fun (and dialogue using Morrigan + Mabari (my dog) to rescue me was lulz. 

[HoLyEmperor]

Force Field seems to last longer on your own guys. It's still up when the cooldown wears off, then you can cast it again.

[The Capital Gaultier]

nuculerman wrote...

can you actually beat her the first time? I'd love to see the video of that. I tried on normal and my whole party dies in two seconds. Earthquake doesn't knock down a single archer. Blood wound and fireball can only hit 4/8 archers. If you try to run Morrigan close enough to use cone of cold on four archers while you blood wound or fireball the other four, the four you didn't CC attack before she's close enough to freeze them all.

Every single archer has the AoE stun with fire arrows, and they all cast that right off. Everyone in my party dies with one volley on normal difficulty. I didn't even bother on easy when I found out I could just break out of prison later. I didn't see how it would have gone any better. I suppose if you made morrigan a bm, and used blood wound on each set of archers, or invested three points to fireball with her, and you had a mage, then it might be possible. But what a waste just so you can beat one boss fight. Otherwise I fail to see how anyone can beat it. It's not even a micromanaging problem. Everyone is dead before you can start micromanaging.

If you run into the other room, not all of the archers will follow.  Makes it quite possible.

Alternatively, use Blood Wound and wipe out most of the archers.  Surprisingly effective.

[Iggynous]

i finished on hard to get my bearings, but decided to definitely do nightmare on my second playthrough because it was much to easy



well into story now, and i haven't notice it being anyharder at all, to me it seems nightmare==hard



very disappointing

[TcheQ]

Iggynous wrote...

i finished on hard to get my bearings, but decided to definitely do nightmare on my second playthrough because it was much to easy

well into story now, and i haven't notice it being anyharder at all, to me it seems nightmare==hard

very disappointing

I'm on my second playthrough on nightmare now, and i'm finding battles easier, simply because I know the appropriate tactics.  From what other's have said, spell durations (like force fielding opponents) and the chance of bigger enemies to resist is much higher - so some battles you are only going to win if you get lucky.

[Akka le Vil]

TcheQ wrote...

Speed Bump 5
Ser Cauthrien
Party Stunned
Party Stunned
Party Stunned
Your journey ends here.
Finally got lucky with otiluke's sphere (by this time I am using my mage as a fighter who can tank, but still dies very quickly to cauthrien) luckily my mage gets about 90 health from a lesser poultice.  SO I can heal and tank while the rest of my party finsihed off those archers.  Wynne is dead by this point. and then my mage dies suddenly (whoops) so I spend the next 15 minutes tagteaming alistair+morrigan

You... actually... beat Cauthrien IN THE MAIN ROOM in Nightmare ?
Wow. Just wow. I didn't even thought it was mathematically possible.

[Akka le Vil]

TcheQ wrote...

It was actually a relief to have such an easy enemy (though bosses genlock assassin and the hurlock generals were pretty hard, the dragon thrall area I don't think is possible without calling allies (archers to the rescue!))

It is possible on Hard. I had forgot about allies, so I had to exploit my way through.
It was a MAJOR pain in the bottom, and I had to use every kind of abuse to do it (especially as I play a "0 death" game, so as soon as ANYONE in the party bite the dust, it's reload time).

On nightmare... I don't even want to imagine.

[Nilwarp]

TcheQ wrote...
I'm on my second playthrough on nightmare now, and i'm finding battles easier, simply because I know the appropriate tactics.  From what other's have said, spell durations (like force fielding opponents) and the chance of bigger enemies to resist is much higher - so some battles you are only going to win if you get lucky.

That is the big downside of the level scaling system.
You don't have the chance of deciding the challenge level for yourself. The game decides for you.
No matter what you do, the enemies are scaled down to you.
That explain why all battles become trivial on your second playthrough (you already know efficient strategies).
For example, if you decide to fight the high dragon at level 12 instead of 18, that will not increase the challenge as the highdragon will be scaled down.
Really a shame as that mob is optional and should not have been level scaled.
 I'm not aware of any opponent which doesn't scale, except for the revenants. There could be other few exceptions though.

[hexaligned]

Anourugs wrote...

I think the entire reason Bioware throws one shottable Darkspawn at you at the end is to give you a false sense of your own power progression having grown so that these previous enemies who were a major pain in The Wilds suddenly die to your power. Its sort of ruined though since those assassin Darkspawn are still really hard to kill.

I honestly thought it was a bug on my first playthrough.  It's an odd develpment desicion if it isn't.  At that point in the game even equal level mobs go down like they aren't even there, it seems like they would have put in some actualy challenging endgame fights to balance that out, instead of level 0 mobs.  

[Nilwarp]

Akka le Vil wrote...
You... actually... beat Cauthrien IN THE MAIN ROOM in Nightmare ?
Wow. Just wow. I didn't even thought it was mathematically possible.

No. She said she did kill her later on in the atrium if I'm not mistaken.

Edit: here

TcheQ wrote...

Oh yes I should have mentioned I got imprisoned and had to kill Cauthrien in the atrium to the Landsmeet. 

Modifié par Nilwarp, 23 novembre 2009 - 11:15 .

[Nilwarp]

Nilwarp wrote...
That is the big downside of the level scaling system.
...

I forgot to mention that due to the [put your appropriate adjective here] character advancement system in DA:O, you can have all possible talents at level 12 and many of the most powerful ones at level 8.
Add up the fact the game is strictly linear up to level 7, if not 8.
You get the picture.
Don't get me wrong, I like that game, but I definitely don't like being babysat that way.

[dannythefool]

Anourugs wrote...

I think the entire reason Bioware throws one shottable Darkspawn at you at the end is to give you a false sense of your own power progression having grown so that these previous enemies who were a major pain in The Wilds suddenly die to your power. Its sort of ruined though since those assassin Darkspawn are still really hard to kill.

Maybe it's just to make the final part of the game easier, it's pretty much the only battle with a really huge army of darkspawn and everyone has to fight it. Unlike e.g. Ser Cauthrien, who is much harder, but doesn't need killing...

[TcheQ]

I gues I could try beating Cauthrien in the main room this time round.  But I'm a kind of person who thinks it's more interesting if something happens, and to see if I can get out of it. For example, I chose Mabari and Morrigan to rescue me from Fort Drakon, having no idea whether I would have to reload after 3 hours of frustration...but I managed.  A rather big point of my 1st-time party was none of them actually had any mass-effect (no pun!) spells, mainly due to 1. Not knowing what i was doing and 2. Friendly Fire.

Nilwarp wrote...
I forgot to mention that due to the [put your appropriate adjective here] character advancement system in DA:O, you can have all possible talents at level 12 and many of the most powerful ones at level 8.
Add up the fact the game is strictly linear up to level 7, if not 8.
You get the picture.
Don't get me wrong, I like that game, but I definitely don't like being babysat that way.

Well level 12 I was already near the end of the game  so I think It was balanced well.  It wasn't in my character's nature to perform unnecessary quests, and any random hurlock or thug encounters in Denerim....meant I died. I tried doing the thug quest.  But...fail. I've just finished Ostagar again, and am only level 5?  how do you get level 8? (I completely ignored lothering, it's optional (i.e. not part of linear plot)) 

Level 16  though is required for Arcane Warrior Specialization (which I only just achieved before the Landsmeet)

Modifié par TcheQ, 23 novembre 2009 - 12:34 .

[TcheQ]

Nilwarp wrote...

TcheQ wrote...
I'm on my second playthrough on nightmare now, and i'm finding battles easier, simply because I know the appropriate tactics.  From what other's have said, spell durations (like force fielding opponents) and the chance of bigger enemies to resist is much higher - so some battles you are only going to win if you get lucky.

That is the big downside of the level scaling system.
You don't have the chance of deciding the challenge level for yourself. The game decides for you.
No matter what you do, the enemies are scaled down to you.
That explain why all battles become trivial on your second playthrough (you already know efficient strategies).
For example, if you decide to fight the high dragon at level 12 instead of 18, that will not increase the challenge as the highdragon will be scaled down.
Really a shame as that mob is optional and should not have been level scaled.
 I'm not aware of any opponent which doesn't scale, except for the revenants. There could be other few exceptions though.

I had big problems in Neverwinter Nights because the monsters weren't scaled.  And the amount of XP was pitiful (capped at 500).  So I was facing Purple-text  and red-text monsters all the time, and not getting adequate experience from them (just the NWN mechanics), just because I didn't feel like completeing all the unnecessary sidequests.  I think that's why I like DA, is that it's change in strategy that wins the day, not necessarily a change in your character level that determines whether you win a battle.

I do understand what you mean, though

I think it also means that choice of equipment plays a more important role in battles. And that I do like.

[Nilwarp]

TcheQ wrote...
Well level 12 I was already near the end of the game  so I think It was balanced well.  It wasn't in my character's nature to perform unnecessary quests, and any random hurlock or thug encounters in Denerim....meant I died. I tried doing the thug quest.  But...fail. I've just finished Ostagar again, and am only level 5?  how do you get level 8? (I completely ignored lothering, it's optional (i.e. not part of linear plot)) 

Level 16  though is required for Arcane Warrior Specialization (which I only just achieved before the Landsmeet)

I have always ben level 6 when reaching Lothering.
Lothering is optional but you can only do it right now or never. Which brings to level 7. Then you have the scripted encounter with the dog you cannot avoid. Then you are close to level 8.

But I agree with you, you can decide to miss Lothering forever and end up being free at level 6.
About the specialization talents requirements, true, they can have up to level 16 requirements, but they are definitely not required to beat the game or any opponent in the matter.

Edit: being free at level 6 means probably level 8 when reaching the high dragon because of all the unavoidable fights. I will have to prove it though. Let's try that
Edit2: I forgot to mention I consider all optional quests "required" when I know I cannot complete them later on. That includes a few during the origin story, a few at Ostagar and Lothering of course. I should have mentioned that in the first place. That goes in the same way "I want to decide". If I don't do those quests, the game decides I cannot do them later.

Modifié par Nilwarp, 23 novembre 2009 - 01:10 .

[Nilwarp]

TcheQ wrote...
I think it also means that choice of equipment plays a more important role in battles. And that I do like.

I haven't found that actually.
There is no "uber" equipment in that game, and you just upgrade your mundane equipment with a higher level mundane one when you find it (most drops and most purchasable items are level scaled also).
There are few exceptions, and especially one which is if you buy a DLC. Then you get an uber equipment right from the start. Strangely enough, it seems most players don't complain about the fact they get that very early and spend the whole game keeping it and collecting garbage all the way. I would be very annoyed myself if I had that DLC, but that's just me.
The other exceptions are all items you can only buy (and you cannot afford them until very late in game, if that ever happens).
But I may be wrong about that.

Modifié par Nilwarp, 23 novembre 2009 - 01:49 .

[TcheQ]

What I meant by that was compared to BG/NWN/KOTOR/ME where there was basically "choose the best protection/best sword and win" there were very good reasons to stick solely to ranged, or even have my mages change their ranged weapons since magic didn't work. In those other games you didn't have a penalty to wearing too much armor. For example ME was ridiculous: infinite credits and the best guns....you couldn't kill the Tethors group (pirate who steals Wrex's father's armor). The way Strength-Dex has been set up in DA to combine with armor though, you have a choice of being able to use armor that protects a lot, but you get hit a lot, or protects less, but you get hit less. So one setup, depending on what you fight doesn't work for all enemies - I regularly had to change who I would target first, depending on the situation. Go for the Genlock Emissary, the Hurlock Alpha, the Ogre, or the chaff troops that are drawing the attention of my other soldiers?

[Tankenminnet]

That timestop- how do I do it? Please tell, haha!