366 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr. Gogeta34]

AVPen wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Youknow wrote...

Some of them should. I was disappointed when we really didn't get to more results from the "dead" council. The only thing that ended up happening was that non-human vendors were jerks. Which I don't really understand. I'd be more happy to be alive than I would the person that didn't save my leader. I wish there would have been more talk about the arms race turians and humans were apparently having.

Commander Shepard... the first human Spectre... Hero of the Battle at the Citadel... is back from the dead with highly distrubing rumors regarding ties with an avowed enemy of the Council (capital-offense stuff).

He comes over into Citadel space to provide the answers and clear the air.. and the all-human Council (Human-led if you were Neutral... where's the leadership?).... avoids this person?  Yet alone the fact that Spectres only answer to the Council...

I honestly don't know why people are so damn shocked that the Human/Human-led Council refused to see Shepard and wanted nothing to do with him, given the fact that the Alliance itself disavowed Shepard and everything he said and did regarding the Reapers after he dies and that was far before the Cerberus rumors came about....

They disavowed Shepard's story of the Reapers... not Shepard himself.  He's a hero... they never branded him as a crazy person or an outcast.  He was and is hailed as a a symbol and celebrity... some even thought he was dead as part of a covert spectre op.

Additionally... the original Council does the exact same thing... and yet you're still allowed to see them. 

The meeting was private and off-the-books... so I still don't see why they wouldn't want to know about Humanity's biggest space icon as he put his voice in shops around the Citadel..

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 19 décembre 2011 - 06:06 .

[Labrev]

AVPen wrote...

I honestly don't know why people are so damn shocked that the Human/Human-led Council refused to see Shepard and wanted nothing to do with him, given the fact that the Alliance itself disavowed Shepard and everything he said and did regarding the Reapers after he dies and that was far before the Cerberus rumors came about....

I suspected at that time that they (Bioware) weren't sure what they wanted the new council to look like exactly, and so they didn't show them right away in ME2. I think that's probably what the deal was, seeing as it's no longer considered an all-human council but has aliens on it as well (which seems to have been decided since LotSB where the info drone mentions the Turian Councilor, regardless the council). And they've delved into their individual characters in the leaked script.

I'm guessing the difference is that the new council has a human-chairman with more power and/or the aliens are puppets for human leaders.

Modifié par Hah Yes Reapers, 19 décembre 2011 - 06:05 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...
I'm guessing the difference is that the new council has a human-chairman with more power and/or the aliens are puppets for human leaders.

That power isn't shown in ME2... as the chairman is unable to even get his Council to meet with someone they have full obligation to meet (as they're the only group Shep answers to).

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 19 décembre 2011 - 06:08 .

[didymos1120]

Nevermind.  Wasn't taking the context into account.

Modifié par didymos1120, 19 décembre 2011 - 06:11 .

[Night Wraith]

didymos1120 wrote...

Destroy Raiden wrote...

This and I've also noticed the ren interrupts are more jerk then strategic.

Which ones exactly? Other than punching Al-Jilani again, of course.

Well I always enjoyed the take a nap interrupt.  

[Mr. Gogeta34]

didymos1120 wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...
I'm guessing the difference is that the new council has a human-chairman with more power and/or the aliens are puppets for human leaders.

That power isn't shown in ME2... as the chairman is unable to even get his Council to meet with someone they have full obligation to meet (as they're the only group Shep answers to).

What makes you think Anderson is the chair?

If you have a human-led Council, you get to pick the chairman at the end of ME1 (Neutral Ending).

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 19 décembre 2011 - 06:11 .

[didymos1120]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

If you have a human-led Council, you get to pick the chairman at the end of ME1.

Yeah, I wasn't paying attention to the thread.  Edited my post.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

didymos1120 wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

If you have a human-led Council, you get to pick the chairman at the end of ME1.

Yeah, I wasn't paying attention to the thread.  Edited my post.

No prob

[Labrev]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...
I'm guessing the difference is that the new council has a human-chairman with more power and/or the aliens are puppets for human leaders.

That power isn't shown in ME2... as the chairman is unable to even get his Council to meet with someone they have full obligation to meet (as they're the only group Shep answers to).

Well Udina does not want them to see you, and Anderson just sucks at politics.

[AVPen]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

They disavowed Shepard's story of the Reapers... not Shepard himself.  He's a hero... they never branded him as a crazy person or an outcast.  He was and is hailed as a a symbol and celebrity... some even thought he was dead as part of a covert spectre op.

You're forgetting that as far as the Alliance is concerned in ME2, there are two Shepards: there is Commander Shepard and then there is SHEPARD, "the Human Ideal" whom the Alliance transformed into a symbol and icon that ultimately lost it's connection to the real man/woman in the eyes of the mass public (similar to the majority of religious iconography).

Commander Shepard fought and stopped the Reaper Sovereign and did everything in his/her power to warn others of the Reaper threat and to find a way to stop them, but Shepard the Ideal did no such thing - no, Shepard, the Icon of the human Alliance, only fought and killed the rogue turian Spectre Saren and saved the Citadel, proving to the entire galaxy the value and strength of humanity and represented the pinacle perfection of the Alliance soldier. The Icon Shepard never warned the galaxy of the Reaper threat, because of course the Alliance denied all existence of the Reapers after Commander Shepard was killed and would their ideal, perfect soldier make outragious claims of thousands of giant intellegent machines coming to destroy all life in the galaxy? Of course not, they would say....

Modifié par AVPen, 19 décembre 2011 - 06:28 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...
I'm guessing the difference is that the new council has a human-chairman with more power and/or the aliens are puppets for human leaders.

That power isn't shown in ME2... as the chairman is unable to even get his Council to meet with someone they have full obligation to meet (as they're the only group Shep answers to).

Well Udina does not want them to see you, and Anderson just sucks at politics.

The question becomes though... if you're the chairman... how much politicking do you need to do?  And given who/what Shepard is, how could they not even see him?

"Yeah we know you were thought dead and you've been gone a while and you've got these nasty Cerberus rumors floating around... but we'd rather not even find out the truth and instead just draw our own conclusions."

[Night Wraith]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...
I'm guessing the difference is that the new council has a human-chairman with more power and/or the aliens are puppets for human leaders.

That power isn't shown in ME2... as the chairman is unable to even get his Council to meet with someone they have full obligation to meet (as they're the only group Shep answers to).

Well Udina does not want them to see you, and Anderson just sucks at politics.

The question becomes though... if you're the chairman... how much politicking do you need to do?  And given who/what Shepard is, how could they not even see him?

"Yeah we know you were thought dead and you've been gone a while and you've got these nasty Cerberus rumors floating around... but we'd rather not even find out the truth and instead just draw our own conclusions."

Nope sounds exactly like a politican to me.  Better to ignore the problem and hope it goes away.  You know like the National deficit or Reaper invasions.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

AVPen wrote...
You're forgetting that as far as the Alliance is concerned, there is two Shepards: there is Commander Shepard and then there is SHEPARD, "the Human Ideal" whom the Alliance transformed into a symbol and icon that ultimately lost it's connection to the real man/woman in the eyes of the mass public (similar to the majority of religious iconography).

Commander Shepard fought and stopped the Reaper Sovereign and did everything in his/her power to warn others of the Reaper threat and to find a way to stop them, but Shepard the Ideal did no such thing - no, Shepard, the Icon of the human Alliance, only fought and killed the rogue turian Spectre Saren and saved the Citadel, proving to the entire galaxy the value and strength of humanity and represented the pinacle perfection of the Alliance soldier. The Icon Shepard never warned the galaxy of the Reaper threat, because of course the Alliance denied all existence of the Reapers after Commander Shepard was killed and would their ideal, perfect soldier make outragious claims of thousands of giant intellegent machines coming to destroy all life in the galaxy? Of course not, they would say....

I'm aware... but that very same Shepard is there... literally walking the halls of the Citadel (talking to reporters and leaving messages at various convenience stores).  They didn't even want to "secure" him or anything?  No questions?  No media blackout/control?  That's just not a person you ignore... whether the rumors are true or not.

[AlexXIV]

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...
I'm guessing the difference is that the new council has a human-chairman with more power and/or the aliens are puppets for human leaders.

That power isn't shown in ME2... as the chairman is unable to even get his Council to meet with someone they have full obligation to meet (as they're the only group Shep answers to).

Well Udina does not want them to see you, and Anderson just sucks at politics.

I think there is maybe a problem. Not sure why I never thought of it before, but probably the whole 'Spectres serve the Council directly' thing is a huge pile of BS. Because if it were so Shepard would go to them to talk face to face, not to Anderson/Udina. Even in ME1. Obviously the Council is not direcly supervising Spectres which could kinda explain why so many of them (Spectres) are doing their own thing, mostly illegal and in many cases in a way the Council would not approve of.

[AVPen]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

AVPen wrote...
You're forgetting that as far as the Alliance is concerned, there is two Shepards: there is Commander Shepard and then there is SHEPARD, "the Human Ideal" whom the Alliance transformed into a symbol and icon that ultimately lost it's connection to the real man/woman in the eyes of the mass public (similar to the majority of religious iconography).

Commander Shepard fought and stopped the Reaper Sovereign and did everything in his/her power to warn others of the Reaper threat and to find a way to stop them, but Shepard the Ideal did no such thing - no, Shepard, the Icon of the human Alliance, only fought and killed the rogue turian Spectre Saren and saved the Citadel, proving to the entire galaxy the value and strength of humanity and represented the pinacle perfection of the Alliance soldier. The Icon Shepard never warned the galaxy of the Reaper threat, because of course the Alliance denied all existence of the Reapers after Commander Shepard was killed and would their ideal, perfect soldier make outragious claims of thousands of giant intellegent machines coming to destroy all life in the galaxy? Of course not, they would say....

I'm aware... but that very same Shepard is there... literally walking the halls of the Citadel (talking to reporters and leaving messages at various convenience stores).  They didn't even want to "secure" him or anything?  No questions?  No media blackout/control?  That's just not a person you ignore... whether the rumors are true or not.

Yes... I'm sure the Alliance is just losing their s*** and forming at the mouth, drawing up dozens of elaborate plans for a mass media blackout, all because Shepard said into a recorder "I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite store in the Citadel!" at some turian's gunshop. 

Hell, the Alliance already pimped out his likeness to sell that salarian Tupari drink. 

Modifié par AVPen, 19 décembre 2011 - 06:36 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

AVPen wrote...
Yes... I'm sure the Alliance is just losing their s*** and forming at the mouth, drawing up dozens of elaborate plans for a mass media blackout, all because Shepard said into a recorder "I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite store in the Citadel!" at some turian's gunshop. 

Hell, the Alliance already pimped out his likeness to sell that salarian Tupari drink. 

The fact is though... that they have no idea what he's saying and who he's saying it to (along with what his relationship with Cerberus is/was)..  

Besides, if the Council is fine with Shep mingling with the public and the press... why aren't they seeing him themselves?

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Night Wraith wrote...
Nope sounds exactly like a politican to me.  Better to ignore the problem and hope it goes away.  You know like the National deficit or Reaper invasions.

Like the Council did when the Paragon decision allowed you to meet them?

It literally could've been the same thing with more hostility... I would've loved to see Renegade shepard arguing with the all-human council or the human-led council. 

[Yezdigerd]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Manuel on Eden Prime was unstable and prone to do something dangerous (haven't you played Dead Space 2?  "Stick a needle in your eye?"  One could argue that people like that (at a time like Eden Prime) need to go to sleep until their meds kick in because you won't be back to keep the peace if something goes wrong.  Shepard himself even explains why he did that... it was not unprovoked.

Punching the Reporter:  Practically everyone we've seen that she interviews has hit her.  In that universe, doing that to her had become socially acceptable for some reason.  Regardless, a Renegade Shepard could be well aware of that.

There are no indications, at all, that Manuel constituted a danger, he and the doctor had managed to stay alive perfectly fine unlike the others. All Manuel does is speak his mind. Everything indicates Manuel will stay quit in face of danger as before.  Anyway if you want to push the issue it would have been the doctors call, who actually know him, a realistic renegade approach would have been to insist on sedating Manuel, either with his own kit or the doctors. Just decking him with "say good night Manuel" is b-movie dr. evil stuff.

As for the reporter, "socially acceptable" for a navy commander with a license to kill to smack her around, maybe in your universe, among adults it will make it painfully clear you are playing a video game for kids.

Modifié par Yezdigerd, 19 décembre 2011 - 09:26 .

[GodWood]

People do realise you can use the intimidate option to verbally pwn the reporter right?
The way people bring that punch up you'd think it was the only renegade option available.

[GodWood]

Saphra Deden wrote...

GodWood wrote...
People do realise you can use the intimidate option to verbally pwn the reporter right?
The way people bring that punch up you'd think it was the only renegade option available.

The intimidate option is a lot more satisfying/badass in both games.

Indeed, although overall I'd say the ME1's was better.
Calm, logical, quoting Machiavelli, what's not to love?

[Dave of Canada]

GodWood wrote...

People do realise you can use the intimidate option to verbally pwn the reporter right?
The way people bring that punch up you'd think it was the only renegade option available.

I'm usually a bigger fan of intimidating folks than punching/interrupting them, everybody mentions how awesome it is to push the merc out the window but the intimidate option is just so much more sinister.

[frozngecko]

I like this idea. I'm concerned that the morality choices are getting easier and easier to make and that people choose Renegade just for the lolz and not actually because it is difficult to choose paragon (and vice versa)

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I'm surprised the reporter didn't ask Shepard "Are you still beating your lover?" Now that would have been worthy of a punch, but what she asked? No. Just answer the questions and make her look bad.

So killing Balak is going to bite me in the arse? :facepalm: The guy was going to slam an asteroid into the capital of Terra Nova. He murdered everyone on the asteroid except for four people. You're actually going to let him go? And the other stupid thing is that even if you did "let him go" why couldn't you double cross him and have Joker blow him out of the sky? Why wasn't that a choice? No it was to set you up to be hosed for executing a terrorist.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

AlexXIV wrote...
I think there is maybe a problem. Not sure why I never thought of it before, but probably the whole 'Spectres serve the Council directly' thing is a huge pile of BS. Because if it were so Shepard would go to them to talk face to face, not to Anderson/Udina. Even in ME1. Obviously the Council is not direcly supervising Spectres which could kinda explain why so many of them (Spectres) are doing their own thing, mostly illegal and in many cases in a way the Council would not approve of.

Of course..... plausible deniability. If you are caught or killed we can and will disavow any knowledge of your actions, and in some cases even your existance.