604 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

So...Recon and Issac got a rivalrymance going on then eh?

Hurry up with the hatesex. I want pictures.

[PinkDiamondstl]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...
I know how badly you want me

:sick: I would rather eat broken glass

ReconTeam wrote...
Which involves a lot of dialogue as explanation, decisions as to what said characters think on any number of issues and how strongly they hold these opinions, changes for Shepard to argue the point of view, etc. Nothing's as simple as it seems.

It requires 1 scene and about 5 lines max in which the LI turns you down because "we're just too different/I don't want someone like you". Don't try to make it into a big issue, it's not. The game's tracking your choices all over the place, characters react to it so it is absolutely NON issue for an RPG developer, they've been doing stuff like that for over a decade now.

ReconTeam wrote...
Hypocrite? Get over yourself.

WHen you will finally start taking your own advices?

ReconTeam wrote...
It makes much more sense for a character to have a defined sexuality as opposed to saying "I'm not interested in you because you saved the Collector base."

In a story like Mass Effect? When sexual orientation has no relevance while morality is one of the main topics? And again you keep ignoring ManShep's harem of women and how it doesn't make sense they're all into him haha. Keep it going!

ReconTeam wrote...
You might want to try addressing what I just said before more before ****ing about homophobia "princess". Or did you already move to your typical last resort?

Actually, this is your last rest haha. You always do it "Ohhh so so so you're calling me a homophobe?!??!". I never do it, I laugh when people like you try to make me call you one.

Will you two just makeout and get it over with.

[MACharlie1]

Ryzaki wrote...

So...Recon and Issac got a rivalrymance going on then eh?

Hurry up with the hatesex. I want pictures.

Agreed. 

*digs for camera*

[CptData]

D3MON-SOVER3IGN wrote...

If a guy is a ****** and loves a game that has a romance.. he'll want a ****** love interest
If a girl is a lesbian and loves a game that has a romance.. she'll want a lesbian love interest

In regards to bisexuality.. i guess its fantasy with certain characters like Ash, Tali, Kaidan, etc . People want to see these characters with the same sex..

I think the arguements is silly too. I romance characters but ive never takened them that seriously

There is nothing wrong with wanting these options in games.
There is nothing wrong with not wanting these options in games.

This.

Speaks of a lot of wisdom tbh.


I'm not homosexual but even I like to see homosexual options like m!Shepard and Kaidan or Vega in the ME series. Just for the fun, to explore the "other side" or, since I'm a guy, for obvious reasons when it comes to f!Shepard and Ashley or Miranda.

It's just fun. Why not allowing such options? Most of the dialogue will be the same, just some lines needs to be different. Additional money spent on development for homosexual relationships in ME should be less than 10% of money spent on implementing that particular straight relationship.

[Inquisitor Recon]

IsaacShep wrote...
I would rather eat broken glass

Hit a nerve did I? I really can't tell if you're more obessed with me or Kaidan.

It requires 1 scene and about 10 dialogues max in which the LI turns you down because "we're just too different". Don't try to make it into a big issue, it's not. The game's tracking your choices all over the place, characters react to it so it is absolutely NON issue for an RPG developer, they've been doing stuff like that for over a decade now.

That's the easy and cheap way to do it, yet if they were to implement such a feature they should probably do a better job. Regardless, this still has no relation to you wanting all of the LIs to be bisexual.

WHen you will finally start taking your own advices?

Oh rest assured, I only have such a high opinion of myself when it comes to certain groups on these boards. Not everybody. Try not to get too upset now.

In a story like Mass Effect? When sexual orientation has no relevance while morality is one of the main topics? And again you keep ignoring ManShep's harem of women and how it doesn't make sense they're all into him haha. Keep it going!

Not everybody is bisexual, most people are straight. This is a fact despite whatever BS theories you may believe. If there are going to be romances in the game how does this have no relevance? Care to answer this time or will you repeat your whole "if paragon/renegade choices don't matter sexuality shouldn't" fallacy?

Actually, this is your last rest haha. You always do it "Ohhh so so so you're calling me a homophobe?!??!". I never do it, I laugh when people like you try to make me call you one.

My last rest? I'll presume that was a spelling error but it would make as much sense as the rest of your arguments. Anyway, it's an odd claim when you did your little "you just don't want teh gehs" act earlier. But you know what? I don't want characters made bisexual to suit the whims of whiny fanboys like yourself.

Once more, writing/npc integrity is far more important than Bioware pleasing you with your dream scenario.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 19 décembre 2011 - 07:22 .

[rapscallioness]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

@OP, This matters to me in a video game -- Writer/NPC Integrity. Which can be summarised thusly:

If a character is meant to be straight/gay/bi, then make them straight/gay/bi. If it's in character for them to be swung to a different orientation through RP reasons that make sense, then swing them. But don't make them straight/gay/bi to appease the wailing of your fans; do what's true for the NPCs.

---

I despise the 'all LIs are bi' move primarily because, to me, it reeks of Bioware caving to fan demands. My secondary issue is that it effectively cuts a plethora of RP possibilities from future games for the sake of fan's being able to have their one PC boink everyone in a single playthrough, which I think is a shame (not that you can boink everyone, but that there's a price for that and it's dialogue. Don't worry, I get that a lot of you don't care if you can have your sexytimes. You're entitled to that preference just as I am to mine).

Hissssss. This is what gets on my nerves. All this high horse/high brow wannabe nonsense. You're playing a damn video game, not writing your thesis for a PHd.

The bolded line just doesn't make any sense. Whether, or not your character boinks everyone has nothing to do with this so-called "plethora of RP possibilities".

As far hurting the dialogue---you get more dialogue when you boink them.

I tell you something else, too---boinking everyone in DA2 took more damn strategy than the combat. If there wasn't an Achievement for that, there shoulda been.

Then you wind it up w/ the whole insinuation that we're entitled to be ignorant and low brow if that's our preference.

I don't know where you think you are, but this is nothing more than a forum for a video game. You're not actually doing anything productive. Perhaps you made a wrong turn. But don't come up in a place this trying to act like you're more than you are.

[Inquisitor Recon]

rapscallioness wrote...
I don't know where you think you are, but this is nothing more than a forum for a video game. You're not actually doing anything productive. Perhaps you made a wrong turn. But don't come up in a place this trying to act like you're more than you are.

Somebody's angry. How dare somebody value somewhat better writing over pleasing a certain fanboy/fangirl community? But I'm interested, how is asking for crap like DA2s Hawke-sexuals, productive?

Modifié par ReconTeam, 19 décembre 2011 - 07:29 .

[Ryzaki]

rapscallioness wrote...
Hissssss. This is what gets on my nerves. All this high horse/high brow wannabe nonsense. You're playing a damn video game, not writing your thesis for a PHd.

The bolded line just doesn't make any sense. Whether, or not your character boinks everyone has nothing to do with this so-called "plethora of RP possibilities".

As far hurting the dialogue---you get more dialogue when you boink them.

I tell you something else, too---boinking everyone in DA2 took more damn strategy than the combat. If there wasn't an Achievement for that, there shoulda been.

Then you wind it up w/ the whole insinuation that we're entitled to be ignorant and low brow if that's our preference.

I don't know where you think you are, but this is nothing more than a forum for a video game. You're not actually doing anything productive. Perhaps you made a wrong turn. But don't come up in a place this trying to act like you're more than you are.

@the bolded: QFT.

@the rest: <3

Yes the glorious writing and character coherency where everyone is as friendly to renedouche as they are to Jesus Shepard. Where Liara and Shep act like old chumps no matter how they acted towards each other in ME1. Yes that is totally something that all writers should strive for and the epitome of character coherency and development.   And when Ash and Liara ignored my dude Shep's racist tendancies and punching chicks in the face that was clearly true to their characters. When Alistair still romanced my femWarden that killed Conner and told him to STFU about it. When same warden killed mages in tower for the evlulz. Yup. All that was true to their characters. Same sex romances though? HOLD THE PHONE!

Clearly it only went wrong when the romances were made all Bi. It was all perfect beforehand. :innocent:

Honestly I understand wanting varying sexualities. Let's not pretend though that the current ones (s/s or otherwise) are any more realistic or less facepalm inducing at times.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 décembre 2011 - 07:34 .

[MACharlie1]

ReconTeam: I have a serious question.

Do you believe that it's possible to maintain character integrity and quality writing - ever - by having them reveal themselves as bisexual? Can a character coming out ever be well-written to you?

I mean, I'm trying to figure out why not. I've seen the arguments that they've shown no indication to be attracted to the same sex but if you wanted to be realistic, then you'd know that people come all different shapes and sizes and have different views on different things and may or may not react on those feelings.

[shepskisaac]

ReconTeam wrote...
Hit a nerve did I?

Definitely, in my stomach, I was about to throw up

ReconTeam wrote...
That's the easy and cheap way to do it, yet if they were to implement such a feature they should probably do a better job.

What better job lol? When people turn down each other IRL when first approached they don't spend hours explaining it

ReconTeam wrote...
Care to answer this time or will you repeat your whole "if paragon/renegade choices don't matter sexuality shouldn't" fallacy?

But of course I will answer with "if paragon/renegade choices don't matter sexuality shouldn't". And the "every female squadmate save for one is into ManShep" you keep ignoring. It's simple, there's no realism in any other aspect of LIs availability, there's no reason why there should be in sexual orientation.

ReconTeam wrote...
Once more, writing/npc integrity is far more important than Bioware pleasing you with your dream scenario.

Then I will see you next in your brand new "why aren't LIs turning me down when my Shep is totally opposite of their morality" and "What the hell is with every woman being into my Shep, that is so unrealistic!" threads. Multiple ones. And you need to post skycrapers of text how much you hate it that they're pleasing your dream scenarios of scoring every chick on the ship no matter what.

Ohh yes, and don't forget to hate on every other class than soldier who's played by 65% of ME players so he should get 65% of improvements and new additions. Simple math

Modifié par IsaacShep, 19 décembre 2011 - 07:34 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

MACharlie1 wrote...

ReconTeam: I have a serious question.

Do you believe that it's possible to maintain character integrity and quality writing - ever - by having them reveal themselves as bisexual? Can a character coming out ever be well-written to you?

I mean, I'm trying to figure out why not. I've seen the arguments that they've shown no indication to be attracted to the same sex but if you wanted to be realistic, then you'd know that people come all different shapes and sizes and have different views on different things and may or may not react on those feelings.

Zevran from DA:O was sometimes pretty cool, I didn't really have much of a problem with how he was handeled. I could understand Tali being bisexual from her apparent interest in FemShep. Maybe Jack.

The way I see it, one or two characters is one thing. But all of the LIs? Seriously?

Modifié par ReconTeam, 19 décembre 2011 - 08:33 .

[rapscallioness]

ReconTeam wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...
I don't know where you think you are, but this is nothing more than a forum for a video game. You're not actually doing anything productive. Perhaps you made a wrong turn. But don't come up in a place this trying to act like you're more than you are.

Somebody's angry. How dare somebody value good writing over pleasing a certain fanboy/girl community? But I'm interested, how is demanding crap like DA2s romance "features", productive?

What ticks me off is the condescension. When I played DA2 I wasn't expecting some great piece of literature. I was expecting a video game.

And you're a fanboy, too. You're just a fanboy in a different direction. And you expect to be pleased, or you wouldn't be arguing about it.

What are you even talking about in the bolded? I didn't demand anyything. What I was addressing was coming into a video game forum looking down your nose at everyone that just trying to have some fun.

And honestly, if you're so consumed with the "value of good writing", you're in the wrong place. Go read some books. Spare us all your righteous indignation.

[MACharlie1]

ReconTeam wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...
Do you believe that it's possible to maintain character integrity and quality writing - ever - by having them reveal themselves as bisexual? Can a character coming out ever be well-written to you?

I mean, I'm trying to figure out why not. I've seen the arguments that they've shown no indication to be attracted to the same sex but if you wanted to be realistic, then you'd know that people come all different shapes and sizes and have different views on different things and may or may not react on those feelings.

Zevran from DA:O was sometimes pretty cool, I didn't really have much of a problem with how he was handeled. I could understand Tali being bisexual from her apparent interest in FemShep. Maybe Jack.

The way I see it, one or two characters is one thing. But all of the LIs? Seriously?

Ah. I see. Your're opposed to making all characters bisexual. I get it and understand that. Either way doesn't bother me. As long as your aren't suggesting that there is only one way to write a character based on previous writings of it. 

[RamirezWolfen]

I used to care. Then I realized it was just a game and decided to f*ck off.

[rapscallioness]

ReconTeam wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...
Do you believe that it's possible to maintain character integrity and quality writing - ever - by having them reveal themselves as bisexual? Can a character coming out ever be well-written to you?

I mean, I'm trying to figure out why not. I've seen the arguments that they've shown no indication to be attracted to the same sex but if you wanted to be realistic, then you'd know that people come all different shapes and sizes and have different views on different things and may or may not react on those feelings.

Zevran from DA:O was sometimes pretty cool, I didn't really have much of a problem with how he was handeled. I could understand Tali being bisexual from her apparent interest in FemShep. Maybe Jack.

The way I see it, one or two characters is one thing. But all of the LIs? Seriously?

I don't think anybody wanted all the LI's Bi, but that's the way they're gonna do it because it's a video game and that's the easiest way for them to do it. And now they can go work on other video game stuff like graphics and combat and powers......and the end of the world.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

rapscallioness wrote...

Hissssss. This is what gets on my nerves. All this high horse/high brow wannabe nonsense. You're playing a damn video game, not writing your thesis for a PHd.

The bolded line just doesn't make any sense. Whether, or not your character boinks everyone has nothing to do with this so-called "plethora of RP possibilities".

As far hurting the dialogue---you get more dialogue when you boink them.

I tell you something else, too---boinking everyone in DA2 took more damn strategy than the combat. If there wasn't an Achievement for that, there shoulda been.

Then you wind it up w/ the whole insinuation that we're entitled to be ignorant and low brow if that's our preference.

I don't know where you think you are, but this is nothing more than a forum for a video game. You're not actually doing anything productive. Perhaps you made a wrong turn. But don't come up in a place this trying to act like you're more than you are.

Then the bolded line will be explained further.

The sex scene dialogues we both enjoy is still going to be there if we don't manage a romance every NPC with a particular PC.

But we'll never have (as examples, not suggestions) situations such as these if all LIs are bi:

An LI who, due to abuse, is too afraid to have a relationship with gender X.
An LI who, due to simple preferences, is not attracted to gender X.
An LI who, due to religious observances, refuses (despite any attractions) to be with gender X.

Denial, rejection and the tragedies that can come from these have their place in dialogue and fantasy just as much as the sexytimes do. A romance that developed and felt real only to crumble when the LI lets the PC down because, for whatever reason, gender gets in their way, can be epic if done right.

Over to you.

[CptData]

ReconTeam wrote...

Zevran from DA:O was sometimes pretty cool, I didn't really have much of a problem with how he was handeled. I could understand Tali being bisexual from her apparent interest in FemShep. Maybe Jack.

The way I see it, one or two characters is one thing. But all of the LIs? Seriously?

I usually put it this way:

Shepard is a fluent character. You can pick his or her appearance, gender, past, class and decisions in the game. Whatever you do with your Shepard is canon in that particular playthrough and therefore, your Shepard can't act "OOC". Shepard can have your own sexual allignment or not. Depends on your decisions.

Plus: whenever you create a new Shepard, you are also "creating" a new universe.

In every new universe the characters can be straight, bisexuals or homosexuals. They're kinda shifting like your own Shepard - if you want your male Shepard being gay, you can get into Kaidan's pants, but not into Ashley's. If you want a straight female Shepard, Kaidan wants your Shepard. And if your male Shepard is straight, then it's Ashley.

Got what I wanna say? All characters should have both options but you only will see a few. Maybe put an extra flag at the beginning while character creation:

My (gender) Shepard is 
[  ] heterosexual
[  ] bisexual
[  ] homosexual

//EDIT

Means: a male Shepard with "bisexual" option activated can flirt to anyone. A male Shepard with "homosexual" option selected won't be able to flirt with female squadmates, a female homosexual Shepard can't get a male LI.
Easy rules. I'd go for a bisexual role as f!Shepard and a heterosexual role for m!Shepard if I could pick those options.

Done.

Modifié par CptData, 19 décembre 2011 - 07:54 .

[rapscallioness]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

Hissssss. This is what gets on my nerves. All this high horse/high brow wannabe nonsense. You're playing a damn video game, not writing your thesis for a PHd.

The bolded line just doesn't make any sense. Whether, or not your character boinks everyone has nothing to do with this so-called "plethora of RP possibilities".

As far hurting the dialogue---you get more dialogue when you boink them.

I tell you something else, too---boinking everyone in DA2 took more damn strategy than the combat. If there wasn't an Achievement for that, there shoulda been.

Then you wind it up w/ the whole insinuation that we're entitled to be ignorant and low brow if that's our preference.

I don't know where you think you are, but this is nothing more than a forum for a video game. You're not actually doing anything productive. Perhaps you made a wrong turn. But don't come up in a place this trying to act like you're more than you are.

Then the bolded line will be explained further.

The sex scene dialogues we both enjoy is still going to be there if we don't manage a romance every NPC with a particular PC.

But we'll never have (as examples, not suggestions) situations such as these if all LIs are bi:

An LI who, due to abuse, is too afraid to have a relationship with gender X.
An LI who, due to simple preferences, is not attracted to gender X.
An LI who, due to religious observances, refuses (despite any attractions) to be with gender X.

Denial, rejection and the tragedies that can come from these have their place in dialogue and fantasy just as much as the sexytimes do. A romance that developed and felt real only to crumble when the LI lets the PC down because, for whatever reason, gender gets in their way, can be epic if done right.

Over to you.

I like that better. And you didn't insult me this time.

Those are great ideas, and I agree. There was just something about the delivery the first time that ticked me off.

Love ya!

[Inquisitor Recon]

IsaacShep wrote...
Definitely, in my stomach, I was about to throw up

I look a lot like the Fat B@sterd from Austin Powers, I know you dig that.

What better job lol? When people turn down each other IRL when first approached they don't spend hours explaining it

Are we talking about a romance already in progress, or just Shepard asking and them saying no?

But of course I will answer with "if paragon/renegade choices don't matter sexuality shouldn't". And the "every female squadmate save for one is into ManShep" you keep ignoring. It's simple, there's no realism in any other aspect of LIs availability, there's no reason why there should be in sexual orientation.

Once more, how does the lack of realism in one area a justification for a newly added lack of realism in another? Want to just start copying and pasting this part of our discussion until hell freezes over? I think that would be fun.

Then I will see you next in your brand new "why aren't LIs turning me down when my Shep is totally opposite of their morality" and "What the hell is with every woman being into my Shep, that is so unrealistic!" threads. Multiple ones. And you need to post skycrapers of text how much you hate it that they're pleasing your dream scenarios of scoring every chick on the ship no matter what.

Cool, I'll see you there, but do you mind taking time from sidestepping this issue to writing the topic for me? I'm feeling a bit lazy.

Ohh yes, and don't forget to hate on every other class than soldier who's played by 65% of ME players so he should get 65% of improvements and new additions. Simple math

Good, I love how none of this supports making all of the LIs bisexual too! That's the best part. This will fit perfect into your new topic.

But before you start I just want to clarify this simple math of yours.

S/S fanboys want all LIs to be bisexual
+ Romances aren't perfect to start with
+ People are homophobes if they don't support S/S group ideas
= Bioware should do it

I'm thinking you may need to repeat some classes, but there's no time for that now. You've got a thread to write.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 19 décembre 2011 - 07:56 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

rapscallioness wrote...

I like that better. And you didn't insult me this time.

Those are great ideas, and I agree. There was just something about the delivery the first time that ticked me off.

Love ya!

Thank you. I was going for colourful, but did not intend to be insulting. I apologise for any offense.

[Inquisitor Recon]

CptData wrote...
Maybe put an extra flag at the beginning while character creation:

My (gender) Shepard is 
[  ] heterosexual
[  ] bisexual
[  ] homosexual

Means: a male Shepard with "bisexual" option activated can flirt to
anyone. A male Shepard with "homosexual" option selected won't be able
to flirt with female squadmates, a female homosexual Shepard can't get a
male LI.
Easy rules. I'd go for a bisexual role as f!Shepard and a heterosexual role for m!Shepard if I could pick those options.

Done.

I think the last time somebody suggested a similar idea it was deemed homophobic or unacceptable somehow. Out of curiosity, how would it work with Liara?

Modifié par ReconTeam, 19 décembre 2011 - 07:57 .

[rapscallioness]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

I like that better. And you didn't insult me this time.

Those are great ideas, and I agree. There was just something about the delivery the first time that ticked me off.

Love ya!

Thank you. I was going for colourful, but did not intend to be insulting. I apologise for any offense.

Aww, shoot. Now I feel bad. You know, it's difficult with text only alot of times. You don't get a person's tone of voice; body language all those non verbal ques.

My apologies, too.

edit: and on that note...I've got something, uh, "productive" to do

laterz, bsn.

Modifié par rapscallioness, 19 décembre 2011 - 07:59 .

[MACharlie1]

ReconTeam wrote...

CptData wrote...
Maybe put an extra flag at the beginning while character creation:

My (gender) Shepard is 
[  ] heterosexual
[  ] bisexual
[  ] homosexual

I think the last time somebody suggested a similar idea it was deemed homophobic or unacceptable somehow.

It's redundant. Whats wrong with the dialog wheel? Assuming no ninjamances, nobody would have to see it if they don't want to. 

[Inquisitor Recon]

MACharlie1 wrote...
It's redundant. Whats wrong with the dialog wheel? Assuming no ninjamances, nobody would have to see it if they don't want to. 

With the checklist idea, the sexuality of the LIs in the players universe would depend on that choice as opposed to this "everybody is bi, Shepard-sexual" mess.