604 réponses à ce sujet

[PinkDiamondstl]

RamirezWolfen wrote...

I used to care. Then I realized it was just a game and decided to f*ck off.

True it is only a game. But why is the gayness  needed in our video games.<_<

Modifié par PinkDiamondstl, 19 décembre 2011 - 08:02 .

[WHYBIOWARE]

Rofl

[shepskisaac]

ReconTeam wrote...
I look a lot like the Fat B@sterd from Austin Powers

Not a surprise

ReconTeam wrote...
Are we talking about a romance already in progress, or just Shepard asking and them saying no?

Both. Obviously the first approach could be ended in 1 line, later there would ahve to be more but nothing very big either, these are not 25-years marriages falling apart lol

ReconTeam wrote...
Once more, how does the lack of realism in one area a justification for a newly added lack of realism in another?

It's the same area, it's all part of LIs availability.

ReconTeam wrote...
You've got a thread to write.

No I don't, it's you who's on the crusade against pandering, you need to start covering all the other areas of pandering and fight it just as hard as you do in s/s threads

[CptData]

ReconTeam wrote...

CptData wrote...
Maybe put an extra flag at the beginning while character creation:

My (gender) Shepard is 
[  ] heterosexual
[  ] bisexual
[  ] homosexual

Means: a male Shepard with "bisexual" option activated can flirt to
anyone. A male Shepard with "homosexual" option selected won't be able
to flirt with female squadmates, a female homosexual Shepard can't get a
male LI.
Easy rules. I'd go for a bisexual role as f!Shepard and a heterosexual role for m!Shepard if I could pick those options.

Done.

I think the last time somebody suggested a similar idea it was deemed homophobic or unacceptable somehow. Out of curiosity, how would it work with Liara?

Liara (or any other Asari) is the only option that's always avaiable to both genders, regardless of choosen option.

Think last time someone suggested something similar that particular user wanted an option to switch off any homosexual content. I'd like to see that content, I want that option.
So don't get me wrong - I'm not a "homophobic".
It just is a lot more difficult to implement rules that make Shepard "straight", "bisexual" or "homosexual" by his or her decisions in game. It can work, but it's more difficult. And it definitely needs the friendship feature.

So lets say if you decide your male Shepard puts Kaidan, Jacob, Thane etc in the "friendzone", your Shepard is straight. If you flirt with said squadmates, but also with female squaddies, your Shepard is bi.

Modifié par CptData, 19 décembre 2011 - 08:04 .

[Ravensword]

So, I leave to go watch several episodes of Breaking Bad on DVD, after which I return expecting this thread to be locked, but strangely enough, it's still going.

[PinkDiamondstl]

WHYBIOWARE wrote...

Rofl

Did I go to far?

[Ryzaki]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...
Then the bolded line will be explained further.

The sex scene dialogues we both enjoy is still going to be there if we don't manage a romance every NPC with a particular PC.

But we'll never have (as examples, not suggestions) situations such as these if all LIs are bi:

An LI who, due to abuse, is too afraid to have a relationship with gender X.
An LI who, due to simple preferences, is not attracted to gender X.
An LI who, due to religious observances, refuses (despite any attractions) to be with gender X.

Denial, rejection and the tragedies that can come from these have their place in dialogue and fantasy just as much as the sexytimes do. A romance that developed and felt real only to crumble when the LI lets the PC down because, for whatever reason, gender gets in their way, can be epic if done right.

Over to you.

And one can do that just as great while having those characters not be romances for the PC at all. (ala Aveline). Just because all the LIs are bi doesn't mean everyone is hoping into bed with the PC. I don't know why people don't get that distinction.

Denial, rejection and tragedy does not need non bisexual LIs. It just needs characters the PC can attempt to romance that aren't LIs for a variety of reasons. The two do not cancel each other out.

And of course there are plenty of people who would find LIs geting over their objections to being with gender X far more interesting.

And everyone's definiton of epic is different as well. I'd find it to be more of an epic fail than anything (especially if the reasoning feels weak).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 décembre 2011 - 08:23 .

[PinkDiamondstl]

Ravensword wrote...

So, I leave to go watch several episodes of Breaking Bad on DVD, after which I return expecting this thread to be locked, but strangely enough, it's still going.

Strange indeed ...

[goofyomnivore]

Ravensword wrote...

So, I leave to go watch several episodes of Breaking Bad on DVD, after which I return expecting this thread to be locked, but strangely enough, it's still going.

\\

Haha I thought the same thing when I left a few hours. I've debated this issue too many times to care anymore. This thread is probably filled with hyperbole and fallacies from both sides. Neither seem to be able to agree to disagree on the whole idea of Shepard-orientation or preset orientation, or at the very least see the logical pros and cons behind either side.

Modifié par strive, 19 décembre 2011 - 08:06 .

[MACharlie1]

ReconTeam wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...
It's redundant. Whats wrong with the dialog wheel? Assuming no ninjamances, nobody would have to see it if they don't want to. 

With the checklist idea, the sexuality of the LIs in the players universe would depend on that choice as opposed to this "everybody is bi, Shepard-sexual" mess.

I think it would make for better written and unique dialogs if the LIs followed a spectrum rather then a set variable. For instance, lets take Kelly and Kaidan/Ashley.

- To any player, Kelly is open to either relationship. No differences.
- However, Kaidan and Ashley fall on that heterosexual side. They aren't at that peak 100% where it's impossible but it takes more effort as a same-sex. And then works the other way around with another love interest who is on the homosexual side but can be loved interested by an opposite if the right criteria is met. Whatever that maybe and it's based upon their own personal reasoning that they aren't. 

And then you may have an instance where a player  creates Shepard. Oh he's straight. But then you realize that the male npc has much more in common and is much better match. Homosexuality toggle suggests a "hiding your gays" and has some unfortuante implications. Mind that even it's not purposeful, it's not good for PR. And keep in mind in ME3, we are kind of getting a toggle. Albeit it's a "movie mode" where most if not all conversation options are made for you. 

Modifié par MACharlie1, 19 décembre 2011 - 08:07 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

rapscallioness wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Thank you. I was going for colourful, but did not intend to be insulting. I apologise for any offense.

Aww, shoot. Now I feel bad. You know, it's difficult with text only alot of times. You don't get a person's tone of voice; body language all those non verbal ques.

My apologies, too.

edit: and on that note...I've got something, uh, "productive" to do

laterz, bsn.

No worries. These things happen and 'tis the internet. Take it easy.

[WHYBIOWARE]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

WHYBIOWARE wrote...

Rofl

Did I go to far?

It was funny regardless.

[ObserverStatus]

I don't really care about the characters' sexual preferences myself. I'm more interested in stopping the reapers than my crew mates' love lives.

[Ravensword]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

So, I leave to go watch several episodes of Breaking Bad on DVD, after which I return expecting this thread to be locked, but strangely enough, it's still going.

You missed the part where I posted pony pics. I thought that might bring the thread down, but to no avail.

Anyway, here's my reaction to almost every post there's been in this thread while you were gone:

I'm too lazy to go back right now.

[Ravensword]

strive wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

So, I leave to go watch several episodes of Breaking Bad on DVD, after which I return expecting this thread to be locked, but strangely enough, it's still going.

Haha I thought the same thing when I left a few hours. I've debated this issue too many times to care anymore. This thread is probably filled with hyperbole and fallacies from both sides. Neither seem to be able to agree to disagree on the whole idea of Shepard-orientation or preset orientation, or at the very least see the logical pros and cons behind either side.

No! We must continue this Internet argument for great justice!

[WHYBIOWARE]

Ravensword wrote...

strive wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

So, I leave to go watch several episodes of Breaking Bad on DVD, after which I return expecting this thread to be locked, but strangely enough, it's still going.

Haha I thought the same thing when I left a few hours. I've debated this issue too many times to care anymore. This thread is probably filled with hyperbole and fallacies from both sides. Neither seem to be able to agree to disagree on the whole idea of Shepard-orientation or preset orientation, or at the very least see the logical pros and cons behind either side.

No! We must continue this Internet argument for great justice!

The mods seem to be slacking off. I just got banned for no reason.

Modifié par WHYBIOWARE, 19 décembre 2011 - 08:13 .

[Ravensword]

WHYBIOWARE wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

strive wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

So, I leave to go watch several episodes of Breaking Bad on DVD, after which I return expecting this thread to be locked, but strangely enough, it's still going.

Haha I thought the same thing when I left a few hours. I've debated this issue too many times to care anymore. This thread is probably filled with hyperbole and fallacies from both sides. Neither seem to be able to agree to disagree on the whole idea of Shepard-orientation or preset orientation, or at the very least see the logical pros and cons behind either side.

No! We must continue this Internet argument for great justice!

The mods seem to be slacking off. I just got banned for no reason.

It's probably b/c they're busy watching Breaking Bad. I don't blame them.

[Inquisitor Recon]

IsaacShep wrote...
Not a surprise

I got the Scottish accent and everything. I'm eating a bucket of chicken wings right now.

Both. Obviously the first approach could be ended in 1 line, later there would ahve to be more but nothing very big either, these are not 25-years marriages falling apart lol

It really would depend on a number of factors, but again this is all irrelevant.

It's the same area, it's all part of LIs availability.

LI availability? We're not talking about a cars or whatever. People aren't "avalible" just because you want them, nor should that be the case in ME3. Bioware should keep a somewhat believable scenario as opposed to making everybody bisexual just to please some fanboys, while lessening the quality of the game for people who care about writing, character development, and things other than their obsession with virtual LIs.

No I don't, it's you who's on the crusade against pandering, you need to start covering all the other areas of pandering and fight it just as hard as you do in s/s threads

Giving out orders now? Really? Listen, you're the one trying to make a big issue out of those issues to deflect arguments against your ME3 dream scenario, so you go create the topic. It's as simple as that.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 19 décembre 2011 - 08:23 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Ryzaki wrote...

And one can do that just as great while having those characters not be romances for the PC at all. (ala Aveline). Just because all the LIs are bi doesn't mean everyone is hoping into bed with the PC. I don't know why people don't get that distinction.

Much as I love Aveline and adored her quests, I don't count her as a romance because she never really reciprocates. A romance is never built with the PC, even if there are romance lines with her, and while there is a sorta rejection at the end, it's not really. But she was done really well.

I don't care if everyone hops into bed with the PC or not. I just want stuff like orientations to make sense for respective characters rather than existing solely to please people.

And if the LI lets the PC down chances are there isn't a romance developing. And frankly I'd barf if I had to hear the whole "well we can't be together despite several conversations of me expressing attraction to you because of your gender." spiel especially considering most of the characters probably make their living breaking rules and crap. That's just my preferences though.

Valid.

But it shouldn't be surprising that things like this can go quite a long way before one side loses their nerve, or gets up the guts to come clean about their preferences. Some people even get married to please their families rather than their own attractions. That's people, and that's life, and not everyone's a rebel.

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 19 décembre 2011 - 08:31 .

[Jackster94]

Christ Isaac and recon your ****yness really destroys gay stereotypes dent it?

[ObserverStatus]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...
Oh hai Raven!
And, Twi! <3<3<3

I think this is more of a double facehoof moment myself, but to each his own, I suppose.

[AngryFrozenWater]

slimgrin wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

@OP, This matters to me in a video game -- Writer/NPC Integrity. Which can be summarised thusly:

If a character is meant to be straight/gay/bi, then make them straight/gay/bi. If it's in character for them to be swung to a different orientation through RP reasons that make sense, then swing them. But don't make them straight/gay/bi to appease the wailing of your fans; do what's true for the NPCs.

---

I despise the 'all LIs are bi' move primarily because, to me, it reeks of Bioware caving to fan demands. My secondary issue is that it effectively cuts a plethora of RP possibilities from future games for the sake of fan's being able to have their one PC boink everyone in a single playthrough, which I think is a shame (not that you can boink everyone, but that there's a price for that and it's dialogue. Don't worry, I get that a lot of you don't care if you can have your sexytimes. You're entitled to that preference just as I am to mine).

I agree. But I advise you to take cover.

Nah. I don't agree at all with the "cave in" argument. It doesn't make sense for the simple reason that if BW would change its policy again then they would "cave in" for the other fan's commands.

The whole argument of the companions needing to stay true to their sexual identity doesn't make sense either. Let me give you an analogy: If you sided with the mages in an earlier game that doesn't mean that you will be a traitor when you side with the templars in this game. After all, it is a new run and you look at it fresh. What you have done in that other run is unknown. The same goes for the idea that a companion can be romanced by a PC with another sexual preference than the one chosen in another run or even by another gamer. It is simple really: If you play a straight PC then you can go after straight romances. If your PC isn't straight then you can go after the preference of your choosing.

"Caving in" also sounds negative in the way that BW should not change it's policy regarding the support for alternate sexual preferences. Not that long ago straight females were considered to be a minority in gaming and because of that were not worth of being supported fully. The same kind of resistance existed back in those days. It's a good thing that this has changed a bit. That's not caving in either. It is a choice that reflects much needed equality and BW now also sees female gamers as a market worth going after.

It seems to me that the resistance to companions "suddenly" having another sexual preference is much like the resistance male gamers had when games started to take their female market seriously. Just as there is no logical reason to be against the support for female gamers, there is also no logical reason to be against the idea that companions can be played by gamers with another sexual preference. The whole "caving in" argument is just a sign of that.

The price of this resulting in bad dialogue is also taken from thin air. I agree that the dialogue is one of the strengths of BW, but having companions made to fit a PC with another sexual preference does not make those distasteful or bad by default. Bringing up this is another sign of the resistance.

And there is that "boink in every single playthrough" argument. Straight characters don't "boink in every single playhrough"? If straight PCs can do that then what is wrong with a non-straight PC who "boink[s] in every single playhrough"?

The "sexytimes" bit is written in such a way that these optional non-hetero relations who don't exist in a run if you don't go after them are to be looked at as silly. The attempt to make them look that way by painting them as such does not make it true.

So all in all, I see a lot of arguments that don't cut wood, and can only conclude that I see majority sentiments and irrational fear.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 19 décembre 2011 - 08:38 .

[Jackster94]

* doesn't it ( damn iPad )