604 réponses à ce sujet

[jeweledleah]

ah, its this thread again. at the risk of being labeled homophobe, I'm very much for the options being available to variety of orientations. I am however against making any old LI's (notice that I said specifically LI's, not just characters) available for same sex romances, if they were previously o/s only. I will grudgingly accept it anyway if its written well and in some way addresses why they weren't available before (especially in case of LI's that make the first move). But I will not be happy about it.

[slimgrin]

IsaacShep wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

But what about my other point, what about giving the writers an opportunity to send a message here?

And what about you constantly ignoring arguments?

I understand your point but couldn't I say the same thing about Ashley being a Muslim, or a Pagan, or Hindu? Or is she a conservative Christian?...which do you think is more likely given her background?

Modifié par slimgrin, 19 décembre 2011 - 12:40 .

[AdmiralCheez]

SAGEHONOR wrote...
]
Nope, I dont believe in stereotypes for 100% of the times. I'm just saying they are normally true more than half the times. Thats why we see them alot. GET IT??

No.

They're not.

And that's the problem with society.

[goofyomnivore]

Equality in romances need to be present. Dragon Age: Origins(IMO) was very fair in quality and options for whatever your preference. Mass Effect's current like 9-1 ratio ain't cutting it. However I don't want to see the sexual preference "Shepard" design path.

Romances are a very small part of the game though, so not like they're going to ****** on my cupcakes by doing whatever. I just think the pros/cons of each side is lost in translation and this becomes a recycling flame war. Reminds me of the Collector Base and Cerberus threads but nastier.

Modifié par strive, 19 décembre 2011 - 12:43 .

[slimgrin]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

But what about my other point, what about giving the writers an opportunity to send a message here?

Then they should send a non-hateful message.  One that says, hey, guess what, I'm a person, too.  I'm not some stupid stereotype, I'm a real goddamn person.

Well, they are free to send whatever message they like. The important thing is that all subject matter is fair game for any medium, including games.

Modifié par slimgrin, 19 décembre 2011 - 12:43 .

[shepskisaac]

slimgrin wrote...

I understand your point but couldn't I say the same thing about Ashley being a Muslim, or a Pagan, or Hindu? Or is she a conservative christian?...which do you think is more likely given her background?

No because being a follower of one religion means you don't follow other religions lol Liking men doesn't automatically means you don't like women, if that was the case there would only be straight and gay people, nothing in between.

Ohh and BTW, conservative Christain wouldn't have pre-martial sex. So yeah, you ain't doing great with these assumptions about Ashley.

[AdmiralCheez]

slimgrin wrote...

Well, they are free to send whatever message they like. The important thing is that all subject matter is fair game for any medium, including games.

Yes, because I'd LOVE to hear one more story about how bisexuals are sexually loose, how gay men are weak and effeminate, how lesbians are all hyper-masculine, how blacks are all gangsters...

I've had enough.

[slimgrin]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Well, they are free to send whatever message they like. The important thing is that all subject matter is fair game for any medium, including games.

Yes, because I'd LOVE to hear one more story about how bisexuals are sexually loose, how gay men are weak and effeminate, how lesbians are all hyper-masculine, how blacks are all gangsters...

I've had enough.

Umm, I thought you respected these writers..you really think that's the angle they'd take? I know it isn't. They're smarter than that. But as long as they're instructed to please everyone, we'll never know, we'll never get a truly nuanced take on homosexuality, racism, religion, etc.

Or, we'll get it from other developers.

Modifié par slimgrin, 19 décembre 2011 - 12:54 .

[Medhia Nox]

I believe that video games can never take on serious issues - because, as I wrote in a post some time back - unlike true artforms - video games take a heavy cue from their fan base. ((This is due to the fact that video game creation is not initially taken for "the art" - but for "the profit" - it's a business, not a passion for the company)).

So - video games will, for a long time to come at least, be vanilla representations of many topics.

[Shadow_Soul]

SAGEHONOR wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Well, they are free to send whatever message they like. The important thing is that all subject matter is fair game for any medium, including games.

Yes, because I'd LOVE to hear one more story about how bisexuals are sexually loose, how gay men are weak and effeminate, how lesbians are all hyper-masculine, how blacks are all gangsters...

I've had enough.

Those stereotypes are all over the place and true in certain areas.

True? True?! Are you kidding me? I know many people that are all kinds of religions, races, sexual orientations, and none of them fit any stereotype! I wasn't going to say anything or get involved on this topic, but reading that you think they are "true" when they aren't, just...ugh! They aren't and stereotypes are f*cking stupid, just fyi.

[slimgrin]

Medhia Nox wrote...

I believe that video games can never take on serious issues - because, as I wrote in a post some time back - unlike true artforms - video games take a heavy cue from their fan base.

This is exactly the whole f*cking problem, and why I take the stance I do. Games are every bit capable of commentary on serious subject matter as any other medium...but as long as devs continue to cater to fans, the industry will never 'grow up.'

Modifié par slimgrin, 19 décembre 2011 - 12:59 .

[AdmiralCheez]

slimgrin wrote...

This is exactly the whole f*cking problem, and why I take the stance I do. Games are every bit capable of commentary on serious subject matter as any other medium...but as long as devs continue to cater to fans, well, the industry will never 'grow up.'

Ah, so finally having a realistic coming-out of a canon character isn't grown up enough for you?

Thanks, buddy.  I appreciate it.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 19 décembre 2011 - 12:59 .

[shepskisaac]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

This is exactly the whole f*cking problem, and why I take the stance I do. Games are every bit capable of commentary on serious subject matter as any other medium...but as long as devs continue to cater to fans, well, the industry will never 'grow up.'

Ah, so finally having a realistic coming-out of a canon character isn't grown up enough for you?

Thanks, buddy.  I appreciate it.

Aaaaaaaand WIN!

[slimgrin]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

This is exactly the whole f*cking problem, and why I take the stance I do. Games are every bit capable of commentary on serious subject matter as any other medium...but as long as devs continue to cater to fans, well, the industry will never 'grow up.'

Ah, so finally having a realistic coming-out of a canon character isn't grown up enough for you?

Thanks, buddy.  I appreciate it.

Pure selfishness. You want your way, and no risk of being offended.

[Wulfram]

Medhia Nox wrote...

I believe that video games can never take on serious issues - because, as I wrote in a post some time back - unlike true artforms - video games take a heavy cue from their fan base. ((This is due to the fact that video game creation is not initially taken for "the art" - but for "the profit" - it's a business, not a passion for the company)).

So - video games will, for a long time to come at least, be vanilla representations of many topics.

Considering the way many great artists of the past tended to be controlled by their patrons, I don't really see this argument.

What stops video games from being art is that they're games.  They're about challenge and reward, not aesthetics or meaning.

[shepskisaac]

slimgrin wrote...

Pure selfishness. You want your way, and no risk of being offended.

What selfishness? Cheez wants more realism for you, you should be celebrating.

[Kawamura]

Medhia Nox wrote...

I believe that video games can never take on serious issues - because, as I wrote in a post some time back - unlike true artforms - video games take a heavy cue from their fan base. ((This is due to the fact that video game creation is not initially taken for "the art" - but for "the profit" - it's a business, not a passion for the company)).

So - video games will, for a long time to come at least, be vanilla representations of many topics.

Yeah! Like, there was never ever any form of fan service like dirty humor (usually penis and VD diseases related), no cutting of content and perspectives because of the wishes of patrons and certainly no overwhelming desire to make money (like, I mean, no one ever was paid by the word or anything like that) in our accepted works of art. 

...

Oh, I'm sorry, Shakespeare. I didn't really -- I mean. I think your penis jokes and desire for profit was pretty artful. Especially all those nasty things Iago said. And Hamlet. Oh, and I guess really anything in the comedies. 

[Ryzaki]

I was going to ignore this thread but...

I have only one thing to say about the sterotyping bit.

Just...really? How utterly offensive.

Sterotypes are true most of the time.

I guess I must be stupid and a criminal because I'm black then eh?

Just...do you THINK?

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 décembre 2011 - 01:21 .

[bleetman]

Oh, good. I was afraid I wouldn't be able to catch up on this thread and get a solid reminder as to the behavioral patterns I should be displaying due to my bisexuality.

Thank God for the internet, where other people can inform me about the particulars of my sexuality in case I start doing it wrong. I really don't know how I'd live otherwise.

[Kawamura]

Ryzaki wrote...

Usually I ignore these threads but...

I have only one thing to say about the sterotyping bit.

Just...really? How utterly offensive.

Sterotypes are true most of the time.

I guess I must be stupid and a criminal because I'm black then eh?

Don't forget the menthols. 

I guess I'm only half a criminal most of the time. But I look kinda Latino. Does that mean I have to mostly be stereotypically Latino? 

Oh god. Am I going to have to wear long khaki shorts and high white socks? Listen to Morrissey? Oh, man.