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[slimgrin]

Ryzaki wrote...

Usually I ignore these threads but...

I have only one thing to say about the sterotyping bit.

Just...really? How utterly offensive.

Sterotypes are true most of the time.

I guess I must be stupid and a criminal because I'm black then eh?

That was the part of the thread that didn't need any commentary. The part about games as an art form, controversial content being legitimately explored in games, etc. Why not comment on that?

It's easy to say 'racism is bad' or 'steryotypes are misguided.'

Modifié par slimgrin, 19 décembre 2011 - 01:25 .

[Yuqi]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

SAGEHONOR wrote...

Afraid? Now your logic is getting flawed. Im not for it. I dont mind if its in there but im against it if somebody wants to know.

Oh ho ho.  MY logic is flawed?  You, who say stereotypes are okay, who say they are true more than half the time?

Should I get back in the kitchen for you, big boy?  Would that make you feel better for me to conform to your twisted perception of reality?

 I you Cheez

I don't know why it is such a big deal,honestly.  I don't think having every character bisexual is the way to go. I don't think having the majority of romances 'straight' is the way to go, either.

It dosn't matter what fandom it is,  this argument will always exist. I do suggest anyone who can't deal with S/S avoid the DW fandom 

[Ryzaki]

@slimgrin: Probably because that circlejerk didn't catch my eye. Frankly I don't care at this point. It's in the game. So whatever. Nothing's changing at this point.

And games maybe an art form but they're driven by profit and the desire to give gamers what they want, along with providing entertainment. To me that's far more important than some artistic expression. If you can do all of them? Great. But the second AE starts getting in the way of player entertainment you've lost the original goal (making a good game.) in my view. Better off making a movie or writing a book.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 décembre 2011 - 01:28 .

[shepskisaac]

slimgrin wrote...

The part about games as an art form, controversial content being legitimately explored in games, etc. Why not comment on that?

Cheez commented and owned you. You wanted controversial subjects realistically explored, Cheez said let's have big coming out. That's a realistic subject.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 19 décembre 2011 - 01:29 .

[slimgrin]

IsaacShep wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

The part about games as an art form, controversial content being legitimately explored in games, etc. Why not comment on that?

Cheez commented and own you. You wanted controversial subjects realistically explored, Cheez said let's have big coming out. That's a realistic subject.

Maybe I'm an idiot, but I don't even understand what she means by that.

[Nashiktal]

SAGEHONOR wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

SAGEHONOR wrote...
]
Nope, I dont believe in stereotypes for 100% of the times. I'm just saying they are normally true more than half the times. Thats why we see them alot. GET IT??

No.

They're not.

And that's the problem with society.

They are.. Thats why we see them all the time .

Psh sometimes I wish that were true so people could say this and be correct for once.

[shepskisaac]

slimgrin wrote...

Maybe I'm an idiot, but I don't even understand what she means by that.

No, I think you very well know what she meant, you're just pretending you don't because obviously the pwnage doesn't suit you.

LEMME HELP. You whined for realism and realistic portrayal of controversial subjects? Well then, let's have big Ashley coming out story. It happens in real life = it's relaistic and exaclty what you should want. But of course you only want realism when it helps stopping Ash from being bi.

[goofyomnivore]

Maybe I'm an idiot, but I don't even understand what she means by that.

That romances should have dynamic preferences? That is already kind of present in the sense of Garrus and Tali. Neither showed romantic interest in Shepard in Mass Effect, but in Mass Effect 2 their opinion accepted xenophilia. I think she is asking why can't that extend to orientation? I agree why shouldn't it? However does that mean everyone should change their ideals throughout the game, or everyone having the "hots" towards Shepard? I don't think so personally. Why can't Kaidan just be homosexual? Why does he have to be a "s/s romance?"

Modifié par strive, 19 décembre 2011 - 01:37 .

[AdmiralCheez]

SAGEHONOR wrote...

I like how you guys ignore the second part of what i said. Which was they arent true for everyone. Pathetic.

The "more than half" part is what sunk your battleship, sweetheart.

[DJ CAVE SLAVE]

Bah I think the romances suck anyways. There, I said it. You people will argue about anything.

[Ryzaki]

Kawamura wrote...
Don't forget the menthols. 

I guess I'm only half a criminal most of the time. But I look kinda Latino. Does that mean I have to mostly be stereotypically Latino? 

Oh god. Am I going to have to wear long khaki shorts and high white socks? Listen to Morrissey? Oh, man.  

Wait...I'm confused what about menthols? I don't even know all the sterotypes about my own race! I'm a failure!

Of course. Or maybe a bizarre mix of the two.

Hop to it! :happy:

[Ryzaki]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

SAGEHONOR wrote...

I like how you guys ignore the second part of what i said. Which was they arent true for everyone. Pathetic.

The "more than half" part is what sunk your battleship, sweetheart.

This.

If you said sterotypes were sometimes true then yeah whatever. Almost everything's sometimes true.

More than half the time? 

My ass.

I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you don't realize how offensive some sterotypes are.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 décembre 2011 - 01:40 .

[slimgrin]

IsaacShep wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Maybe I'm an idiot, but I don't even understand what she means by that.

No, I think you very well know what she meant, you're just pretending you don't because obviously the pwnage doesn't suit you.

LEMME HELP. You whined for realism and realistic portrayal of controversial subjects? Well then, let's have big Ashley coming out story. It happens in real life = it's relaistic and exaclty what you should want. But of course you only want realism when it helps stopping Ash from being bi.

I'm not pretending anything.

Actually, that sounds fine to me. It could be a compelling story given her background.  What I don't buy is characters changing sexual prefence based on Shepard's. The magic Bi button as it were.

[billy the squid]

SAGEHONOR wrote...

None of it really matters to me since im pretty indifferent about romances in video games.
But I've seen arguements and people getting offended over phrases like..

" It wouldnt make sense if Ash and Kaidan turned bisexual, keep them straight "
" Keep same sex romances out of Mass Effect 3 "
" I want a gay/lebian romance option in Mass Effect 3 "

Now whether if you are for it or not ive seen people feel the need to get into a heated discusion on whether they support or not support Bioware's decision to implement gay/lesbian/bisexual romance in the games

If you are against it, you are labled sexist, homophobic, or a troll..Even if you defend it logically. I've seen it. Whats the deal with that? why does a characters sexual preference matter so much to you in a video game?

Also, does this arguement make since to you?

Any previous romance options wouldnt make sense because it would look like a retcon? im pretty confused about that arguement

So long as the s/s issue is implemented in a way which remains plausable and logical in its approach, then issues of logic progression in the gender of the romance are rendered moot, paticularly if the owness is on the player to engage in the situation, through several conversations, rather than passively drift into it. Prefrences do not always emerge at first instance, but manifest throughout life or are acted upon after a period of uncertainty, let alone issues of bisexuality.

As such Ashley being straight in ME1 is irrelevant, as no prefrence was expressed, it does not preclude a s/s in ME3 ny virtue of the fact that it was undefined in ME1, if it had been defined in a more obvious way, or emphatic assertion, then yes plausibility issues may arise, but only if the underlying explaination is not sufficient.

For instance, Garus' conversation about reach and flexibility, prima facie he appears hetrosexual to simply foist a s/s relationship in this context would be sloppy. Yet through some conversations, initiated by the player and further exploring it, it is quite possible to portray the relationship with Shep as bisexual if necessary, so long as the detail and nuance of the conversations are there. Cutting out detail in this situation simply lends the appearance of a clumsily implemented system to be P.C. rather than a true attempt to grasp the wider scope interactions.

Whether, some characters swing one way or both ways and who is available, I don't know, as such Bioware possible making all romances available is more a practicality issue in game options that a reflection on ideology and view. Genetic imperatives seem to dictate that hetrosexuals are the majority, with sexuality itself being subject to the vagaries of gentic variation from generation to generation. How large that majority is I would think is fairly uncertian at best, as most statistical data is subject to bias due to the underlying data collection techniques and criteria. Although, for an IP which prides itself on choices and realism of character interactions it would seem almost arbitrary to restrict things based on gender lines representative of percentage of a sexual prefrence in reality. Paticularly when the character of shepard is itself not predetermined from the start, only defined by the most vague background info in ME1. 

Modifié par billy the squid, 19 décembre 2011 - 01:55 .

[bleetman]

SAGEHONOR wrote...

I like how you guys ignore the second part of what i said. Which was they arent true for everyone. Pathetic.

I'd consider it more of a failing that anyone paid attention to the first part.

[Olive Oomph]

I don't want making people a big fuzz about sexual orientation in the future, I don't want it to be
"controversial content being legitimately explored in games" (quote slimgrin), I don't want it to matter in a game like Mass Effect, it's not the point of the game, I want to win that damn war, while having the Shepard I choose to make explore a romantic subplot with a character I/she actually likes. Character doesn't matter to do that, why should sex? There is plenty of literature out there. If you want social commentary go read and let the people, who want to play, play and have some fun.

[DiebytheSword]

slimgrin wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Maybe I'm an idiot, but I don't even understand what she means by that.

No, I think you very well know what she meant, you're just pretending you don't because obviously the pwnage doesn't suit you.

LEMME HELP. You whined for realism and realistic portrayal of controversial subjects? Well then, let's have big Ashley coming out story. It happens in real life = it's relaistic and exaclty what you should want. But of course you only want realism when it helps stopping Ash from being bi.

I'm not pretending anything.

Actually, that sounds fine to me. It could be a compelling story given her background.  What I don't buy is characters changing sexual prefence based on Shepard's. The magic Bi button as it were.

And the only character who has implicity ruled out same sex relations in the entire series is Jack.  All the others could be bisexual or even closeted gays trying to pretend they are straight.  Does that mean all of them should be?  Of course not, but you shouldn't be offended unless Jack decides to bed a female Shepard.

I was only ever offended by Anders in DA2, who penalized you on freindship for turning him down because you could only let him down hard.  Ridiculous set up and reaction, and terrible writing, all wrapped up in poor game design.

[slimgrin]

DJCS wrote...

Bah I think the romances suck anyways. There, I said it. You people will argue about anything.

Well, if we were all still playing Mario Bros. there wouldn't be anything to argue about.

But we're not.

Modifié par slimgrin, 19 décembre 2011 - 01:54 .

[Kawamura]

DiebytheSword wrote...


And the only character who has implicity ruled out same sex relations in the entire series is Jack.  All the others could be bisexual or even closeted gays trying to pretend they are straight.  Does that mean all of them should be?  Of course not, but you shouldn't be offended unless Jack decides to bed a female Shepard.

I was only ever offended by Anders in DA2, who penalized you on freindship for turning him down because you could only let him down hard.  Ridiculous set up and reaction, and terrible writing, all wrapped up in poor game design.

You don't really lose that many points do you? And is there a way to let down someone that doesn't lose you a few IRL frienship points? 

[Ryzaki]

Anders was a fumble on the devs side.

That said.

A. Its only 15 points. I lost more than that just for being a mage and recruiting Fenris
B. It's easily avoidable (unlike the above)
C. It's easily cancelled out.

[billy the squid]

Kawamura wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...


And the only character who has implicity ruled out same sex relations in the entire series is Jack.  All the others could be bisexual or even closeted gays trying to pretend they are straight.  Does that mean all of them should be?  Of course not, but you shouldn't be offended unless Jack decides to bed a female Shepard.

I was only ever offended by Anders in DA2, who penalized you on freindship for turning him down because you could only let him down hard.  Ridiculous set up and reaction, and terrible writing, all wrapped up in poor game design.

You don't really lose that many points do you? And is there a way to let down someone that doesn't lose you a few IRL frienship points? 

I think people tend to be more careful in real life, whilst Ander's implementation was simply cack handed more than anything else.

[Nashiktal]

Ryzaki wrote...

Anders was a fumble on the devs side.

That said.

A. Its only 15 points. I lost more than that just for being a mage and recruiting Fenris
B. It's easily avoidable (unlike the above)
C. It's easily cancelled out.

You forgot the part where it was actually completely in character for anders. Annoying and uncomfortable? Oh yes, but actually quite realistic.

Modifié par Nashiktal, 19 décembre 2011 - 02:03 .

[Sherbet Lemon]

SAGEHONOR wrote...

I like how you guys ignore the second part of what i said. Which was they arent true for everyone. Pathetic.

You were the one who implied that they were true more than half of the time.  Can't you see how someone would take exception to that statement?  Let's take a look at what you wrote.

There is nothing wrong with stereotyping.They are true more than half the time. Just dont approach a situaton thinking of stereotypes as a  100%. kind of thing because they arent.  I dont do that.

Because what i said is pretty much the truth.Most stereotypes are true more than half the time.Thats why we see it so much in marketing and whatnot.. Stereotypes work when you look at society as a whole... 100%
Fact..

Nope, I dont believe in stereotypes for 100% of the times. I'm just saying they are normally true more than half the times.

Oooh, so only MOST of the time they are true.  Ahh, that makes a difference.  <_<

Stereotypes are harmful and perpetuate certain ideologies.  They also ensure that they become intimated as truth despite the fact that culture and perception are not formed solely by individuals.  You are free to think what you want, but you're also very wrong.

Anytime you try to justify a societal norm or truth as reality, you have to ask the question of where the notion is derived from and what the norm speaks to.  Most stereotypes ensure that certain people continue to be marginalized and hated upon. Calling people pathetic is not cool and illustrates the kind of person that you are and reveals much less about them. 

Have fun with stirring the pot, but the reality of the situation is this: there will be same sex in ME3.  It is a done deal and it's about time.

Modifié par Village Idiot, 19 décembre 2011 - 02:05 .