1127 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

@ Lotion:

Regarding the base, what makes you assume that all the Collectors everywhere were all on the base, and that the ship we've seen is in fact the only Collector ship? What makes you assume that there are no other threats on the base? What makes you assume that none of the Collectors will survive the pulse, other than TIM's assurances? What makes you assume you can trust TIM after all the lies?

1) If the other collectors are not IN the base, then the base is secure. And once Cerberus gets their troops on board, it will be fully secured. If the worst comes to pass, the base can always be re-taken (collectors cna get no help from the reapers) or blown up.

2) What other threats? If there were shep didn't encounter them. If htere are, tehy are Cerberuses problem. Let hteir commandos deal with it.

3) The pulse kills everything organic. And why should TIM lie about that? What could he possibly gain by it? IF your'e worried about assurances, then Shep shouldnt' be doing anything, since 90% of the stuff he does is based on asurances from various characters.

4) Why shouldn't I? Ultimtively the reapes will kill him too even if he works for them and he knows it. They will destroy humanity - which is what he's obsessed about. He has EVERY reason to do exactly what he promised.

I get that you're willing to take those risks. The real problem here is that you think any player who isn't willing to take that risk is a naive sobbing moron.

eeeh.... more or less. Either that or a roleplayer, so he has other valid reasons.

Rather than someone who weights risks and potentials differently. Rather than someone who looks at TIM and says "What makes you think you're anything like my boss? You're supposed to be my partner in this, and yet you keep treating me like a lackey. Enough."

There is no different weighing that is accurate - at least not if you base it on facts.

Also, since when did TIM ever tell you he considers you his equal? did the council Ever tell you that? Hackett? Anderson? They all like to give orders.

And you have yet to prove that TIM would be any better...

Given the way almost every Cerberus project ends up (Teltin, Overlord, every project Shep comes across in ME1, many more examples), there's plenty to indicate that TIM is a ******-poor leader.

For one, he's not blind to the obviosu threat. for another, he can keep his priorities straight. For a third, he out-witted the council for years.
And no, those project don't prove he's a bad leader. runnign a hihg-rish science experiment is secreat and runing a giant organization and government are two different things. Since his organization is doing nicely DESPITE all those projects yo ucal ldisasters - then he's really good at runing the organization.

As for replacing the council, I was directly responding, in the context of discussing TIM/Cerberus dominance, to your assertion that the council should be assassinated. Don't set up an obvious avenue of discussion and then try to blast someone for taking a few steps down it.

Your'e the one who said you despise dominance. And yet it's everywhere. It's as natural as breathing. And you're perfectly fine with ignoring it when it suits you.

[Another_Golden_Dragon]

Hmmm... When did Bioware actually say that irradiating the Base was the better solution to destroying it?

Last I heard, they had actually hinted that DESTROYING it would be better.....

[pmac_tk421]

Luc0s wrote...

Another_Golden_Dragon wrote...

Last I heard, they had actually hinted that DESTROYING it would be better.....

Yes, which makes absolutely zero sense in my opinion.

Why does it not make sense? Cerberus is an enemy in ME3, and giving them extra tech won't help.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

(oh forgot -- [sarcasm alert])

You want to know why femShep blew up the CB? You want to know the real reason? TIM kept lighting up in front of her and never once asked if she wanted any smokes. What a cad. After all she did for him. Leather seats and showers only go so far and even though the ship actually had toilets, they could have put doors on the stalls. And better ventilation. I don't think Gardiner was ready for a Krogan on board. So there were problems with the ship itself aside from having to do all those hours of planet scanning to get a stupid upgrade like better armor, better shields, etc. TIM knew the Collectors cut through the original Normandy like butter, yet built the new Normandy like an American made luxury car -- bigger with better cosmetic appointments but not really any better.

And I got the impression that Miranda was none too happy about that either. Maybe he didn't give her all the perks she was promised either? Or maybe she had "issues" with him after the Jacob loyalty mission asschewing. Hmmm? Ever think of that? Then he goes flies into a rage and orders Miranda to kill her friend? (sorry orders Dr. Frankenstein to kill the monster)

And none of this matters because?

"Oh, you blew up the Collector base in ME2? Sweet, then in ME3 Cerberus will just harvest the remains of the base instead of the actual base and they're still going to get exactly the same results no matter what!"

Hence big explosion > electro-magnetic pulse

PS: Are we really really really really sure there are no more collectors anywhere? Perhaps another reaper production line somewhere? That one's probably unionized though and why it didn't get the original contract.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 22 décembre 2011 - 10:05 .

[Ausstig]

Another_Golden_Dragon wrote...

Last I heard, they had actually hinted that DESTROYING it would be better.....

If by hinted you mean "Hit you over the head with a much subtlity as a charging rino", then yes you are right. 

[Another_Golden_Dragon]

Ausstig wrote...

Another_Golden_Dragon wrote...

Last I heard, they had actually hinted that DESTROYING it would be better.....

If by hinted you mean "Hit you over the head with a much subtlity as a charging rino", then yes you are right. 

Works for me, tho I would have exchanged the Rhino for an Elephant (or Krogan):devil:

[Seboist]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

(oh forgot -- [sarcasm alert])

You want to know why femShep blew up the CB? You want to know the real reason? TIM kept lighting up in front of her and never once asked if she wanted any smokes. What a cad. After all she did for him. Leather seats and showers only go so far and even though the ship actually had toilets, they could have put doors on the stalls. And better ventilation. I don't think Gardiner was ready for a Krogan on board. So there were problems with the ship itself aside from having to do all those hours of planet scanning to get a stupid upgrade like better armor, better shields, etc. TIM knew the Collectors cut through the original Normandy like butter, yet built the new Normandy like an American made luxury car -- bigger with better cosmetic appointments but not really any better.

And I got the impression that Miranda was none too happy about that either. Maybe he didn't give her all the perks she was promised either? Or maybe she had "issues" with him after the Jacob loyalty mission asschewing. Hmmm? Ever think of that? Then he goes flies into a rage and orders Miranda to kill her friend? (sorry orders Dr. Frankenstein to kill the monster)

And none of this matters because?

"Oh, you blew up the Collector base in ME2? Sweet, then in ME3 Cerberus will just harvest the remains of the base instead of the actual base and they're still going to get exactly the same results no matter what!"

Hence big explosion > electro-magnetic pulse

PS: Are we really really really really sure there are no more collectors anywhere? Perhaps another reaper production line somewhere? That one's probably unionized though and why it didn't get the original contract.

If there was real choice and consequence in this series then an intact CB would have resulted in Cerberus controlled Collectors.

[Ausstig]

I kept it cause I thought might some type of 'Anti-Reaper-Disassembler-Gun'. I don't see any other way to beat the Reapers.

[Seboist]

Luc0s wrote...

pmac_tk421 wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Another_Golden_Dragon wrote...

Last I heard, they had actually hinted that DESTROYING it would be better.....

Yes, which makes absolutely zero sense in my opinion.

Why does it not make sense? Cerberus is an enemy in ME3, and giving them extra tech won't help.

1. During the events of ME2 Cerberus isn't an enemy.

2. During the events of ME2 you don't know Cerberus will become an enemy in ME3 (so using "Cerberus = enemy in ME3" as an argument is meta-gaming).

3. The whole idea that Cerberus becomes the enemy in ME3 makes zero sense in the first place. Seriously, did the BioWare writers run out of inspiration or something?

4. Any extra info on the reapers is much needed, because during the events of ME2, we still know jack-f*cking-sh*t about the reapers. The Collector base is (at this moment) our only hope to find out more about the reapers before they arrive, yet Paragonoia Shepard thinks it's a smart thing to blow it up because he doesn't trust TIM (or whatever derpy reason the Paragonoia player comes up with).

Arrival was clearly setting up the Batarians as the major non-Reaper antagonist in ME3 but unfortunately BW decided to cut corners, fan pander or whatever inane reason in order to turn Cerberus into some reaper allied major power. They completely disregarded the lore which explicitly stated that Cerberus is a small organization that was nearly bankrupted by Lazarus and the Normandy projects and later almost wiped out by the Turians. Anyone who remembers TIM's notes from the mission summaries of ME2 would know that things like preventing the genophage cure in Sur'Kesh make absolutely no sense.

Modifié par Seboist, 22 décembre 2011 - 10:23 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Interesting that the big explosion was orange and the resulting star behind TIM turned blue. But the EMP was blue and the resulting star was orange. Hmmm the explosion sucked the orange out of the star. and the EMP sucked the blue out of the star. Sorry for being ridiculous, but you gotta admit... blue sun = good, orange sun = bad. Then why did we kill off the Blue Suns?

How do we know it would have resulted in Cerberus controlled Collectors? Besides "You have failed. We will find another way." According to Mordin the Collectors were essentially husks that were programmed for specific tasks. More machine than organic by this point. See humans. Collect humans. Squish into goo. And now we know why TIM doesn't visit these places. TIM doesn't like goo. It's sticky and icky.

NOTE: this is pure speculation. I have not seen anything from BW or anyone connected.

But anyway, assuming Cerberus gets the exact same stuff in ME3 regardless of what happened in ME2. Assuming that Cerberus gets the exact same results from Overlord in ME3 regardless of what you did in ME2. We know the first Act 1 boss in ME3 will be Cerberus. Act 2 boss will be either Thessia or Palaven. Act 3 boss will be which ever of those you didn't do in Act 2. Act 4 will be Earth > the final boss battle vs. the biggest baddest reaper of them all where you will have to destroy six other smaller "power sources" after which you will be able to get one shot in to weaken it. After all six are down you will be able to take it down with ease, thus defeating the reapers once and for all, and everyone will live happily ever after.



.... until we repeat the cycle ourselves.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 22 décembre 2011 - 10:38 .

[Seboist]

The cloning facilities would have remained intact, all Cerberus needed to do is find a replacement for the Collector general(EDI-like A.I perhaps?).

[Andorfiend]

Luc0s wrote...

1. During the events of ME2 Cerberus isn't an enemy.

Sure they are, it's just that TIM is enough of a sucker that Shepard managed to play him for a brand new frigate and crew before TIM wised-up.

[Another_Golden_Dragon]

Luc0s wrote...
1. During the events of ME2 Cerberus isn't an enemy.

2. During the events of ME2 you don't know Cerberus will become an enemy in ME3 (so using "Cerberus = enemy in ME3" as an argument is meta-gaming).

3. The whole idea that Cerberus becomes the enemy in ME3 makes zero sense in the first place. Seriously, did the BioWare writers run out of inspiration or something?

4. Any extra info on the reapers is much needed, because during the events of ME2, we still know jack-f*cking-sh*t about the reapers. The Collector base is (at this moment) our only hope to find out more about the reapers before they arrive, yet Paragonoia Shepard thinks it's a smart thing to blow it up because he doesn't trust TIM (or whatever derpy reason the Paragonoia player comes up with).

"You do remember those sick experiments?" Garrus
"Remember, these people thought enslaving Thorian Creepers and Rachni was a good idea." Tali'Zorah

Where you come up with that Cerberus isn't an enemy, even in ME 2, I'll NEVER understand, and the events of ME 1 would still be relatively fresh in Shepard's mind.  Only fully renegade Shepards would enjoy working with Cerberus, or think they weren't an enemy.

Also, TIM turned on Shepard several times during ME 2, proving a lack of trust.

Of the 4 points you mentioned, only the 4th has any validity  WHATSOEVER. Yes, destroying the Collector base may come back and bite us in the arse, but there isn't ANY proof that Cerberus wouldn't continue harvesting human colonists to try to build a new Reaper.

One does not have to metagame to think that Cerberus wouldn't turn on you, or otherwise still be a threat, no matter WHAT they did for Shepard.

Until Bioware comes and says proves that keeping the base is far better that destroying it, the Renegade option to irradiate it is just STUPID (IMO) and a risk that I am unwilling to take.

And the final proof will not come until March 6, 2012.

Modifié par Another_Golden_Dragon, 22 décembre 2011 - 11:17 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Clones don't appear from thin air though. You need to feed them too. Even if Cerberus has clones, where do they get all the ships, weapons, armor, and such?

TIM brought them at the same store that Saren purchased his secret base.

The evil sales.

[Another_Golden_Dragon]

"Cerberus brought me back from the dead." Also can be viewed as Moral Rape. Did Shepard give consent?

"I have no reason to think TIM would turn against me." This is just naive. And stupid. There has been no reason at all that he should be trusted in the first place. Even disregarding the events of ME 1.

Pro-humanity doesn't mean nice to humans, evil to everyone else. Remember Admiral Kahoku? He was human.

And Cerberus being an enemy doesn't mean that they joined the Reapers.

[Seboist]

Another_Golden_Dragon wrote...

"Cerberus brought me back from the dead." Also can be viewed as Moral Rape. Did Shepard give consent?

"I have no reason to think TIM would turn against me." This is just naive. And stupid. There has been no reason at all that he should be trusted in the first place. Even disregarding the events of ME 1.

Pro-humanity doesn't mean nice to humans, evil to everyone else. Remember Admiral Kahoku? He was human.

And Cerberus being an enemy doesn't mean that they joined the Reapers.

Casey Hudson and the leaked docs beg to differ.

[Seboist]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Clones don't appear from thin air though. You need to feed them too. Even if Cerberus has clones, where do they get all the ships, weapons, armor, and such?

They can hire the merc groups to help out(particularly the Blue Suns helmed by Zaeed).