Aller au contenu

Photo

Renegades and Paragons should have equal consequences.

Débuté par SarunasAndSoOn , déc. 19 2011 05:06

  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
1127 réponses à ce sujet

#851
Another_Golden_Dragon
Posté 23 décembre 2011 - 12:25

Another_Golden_Dragon
  • Members
  • 275 messages

Seboist wrote...

Another_Golden_Dragon wrote...

And Cerberus being an enemy doesn't mean that they joined the Reapers.


Casey Hudson and the leaked docs beg to differ.


Please keep spoilers out of this.  I haven't read the leaked script, and would rather not.

And anyways, joining means willingly signing up.  Indoctrination can be forced.

#852
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 23 décembre 2011 - 12:42

Guest_Luc0s_*
  • Guests

Another_Golden_Dragon wrote...

"Cerberus brought me back from the dead." Also can be viewed as Moral Rape. Did Shepard give consent?


Does it matter? Without Shepard, the galaxy would already have been doomed. Even the dumbest Shepard must realize this.


Another_Golden_Dragon wrote...


"I have no reason to think TIM would turn against me." This is just naive. And stupid. There has been no reason at all that he should be trusted in the first place. Even disregarding the events of ME 1.


No it isn't. The reapers are the real enemy here to both Shepard and TIM. Find the enemy of the enemy and you find a friend. TIM understands this. I understand this. Do you?



Another_Golden_Dragon wrote...

Pro-humanity doesn't mean nice to humans, evil to everyone else. Remember Admiral Kahoku? He was human.


Irrelevant, because the cell that actually killed Admiral Kahoku was a rogue cell that broke apart from TIM and the rest of Cerberus. The cell went rogue. Miranda tells you this if you ask her about it in ME2.


Anyway, at this point (in ME2) I don't care if TIM is nice or not. All I care is that he's the only one willing to do something about the reaper threat. You don't have to like TIM to understand that you and TIM need each other if you even hope to stand a chance against the reapers.


TIM is pro-humanity. His methods aren't really "friendly", but he's still pro-humanity.

Another_Golden_Dragon wrote...

And Cerberus being an enemy doesn't mean that they joined the Reapers.


Euhm, it's pretty much common knowledge right now that Cerberus joined the reapers. Casey said so. Some of the devs said so. I believe it was even said in-game by Captain Anderson in one of the demo's (I'm not talking about the leaked demo).

#853
sH0tgUn jUliA
Posté 23 décembre 2011 - 12:46

sH0tgUn jUliA
  • Members
  • 16 812 messages
You know what they didn't give us the option of doing but should have? Having Legion hack TIM's bank accounts, and hack Miranda's father's bank accounts. He is a machine. All he has to know is that the funds would further the effort against the old machines. They would reach consensus.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 23 décembre 2011 - 12:48 .

#854
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 23 décembre 2011 - 01:00

Guest_Saphra Deden_*
  • Guests

Lizardviking wrote...

TIM brought them at the same store that Saren purchased his secret base.

The evil sales.


Well Saren only had one secret base and he would have had the support of Sovereign and the geth.

Cerberus has to build all of that up on their own.

Considering how weakened they were by ME2 and Retribution it makes one wonder just how powerful the'd have been in ME3 without those setbacks.

As it stands they are a potent force in three... and they field more than just commandoes. A lot more.

#855
Dave of Canada
Posté 23 décembre 2011 - 01:04

Dave of Canada
  • Members
  • 17 484 messages
Collectors, had they stayed alive, would be completely mindless and useless. The Collector General was the one controlling them (while Harbinger controlled him) and he exploded.

#856
Another_Golden_Dragon
Posté 23 décembre 2011 - 01:25

Another_Golden_Dragon
  • Members
  • 275 messages

Luc0s wrote...

blahblahblah


And yet you still haven't proven anything.  Cerberus isn't a god.  Shepard IS human, and has feelings, and yet is treated as some automaton.  My point about Moral Rape is still quite valid.

Seeing the need to work with (or for) Cerberus doesn't mean that Shepard is supposed to like it.  And you don't even get any info on how it happened until more than half-way thru the game (Illium, speaking to Liara).

Yes, TIM didn't allow Miranda to use a Behavior Chip, so that means I must like him?  In reality, TIM made allowances for the fact that Shepard may need to go to the Citadel for whatever reason.  Think Captain Bailey wouldn't have found that chip?  AND allowed Shepard to enter the Citadel?  Corrupt he may be, but that sort of thing is treason, not to mention stupid.  And likely would have gotten him killed.

A branch went Rogue?  THAT is a reason to trust Cerberus?  Cerberus ITSELF went rogue.  Originally a Black Ops Alliance group, it was disowned by the Alliance FOR that very cell's actions.  Are you REALLY certain that, had they found out about it, that the Allaince wouldn't have shut down Operation Overload?

In no way, Shape, Fashion or form is Cerberus good for Humanity.  When Cerberus started those experiments, they lost their original vision.  Cerberus may have been on the right track for the events of ME 2, but that was the lesser evil.

#857
Seboist
Posté 23 décembre 2011 - 01:35

Seboist
  • Members
  • 11 989 messages
What they could have done was for Cerberus to turn Omega's Vorcha into a proxy army. They could have instigated, directed and supplied a Vorcha mass rebellion there with promises of giving them a higher standard of living in exchange for their services. Mordin and Gavorn both said that Omega would be deep doo doo if such a thing would occur and we saw the amount of damage a few of them were able to do with external support in the former's recruitment mission.

The problem with this of course, is that Cerberus would be acting as a clandestine organization and there would be socio-political drama of a downtrodden race trying to uplift themselves with Shepard needing to figure out a way to sway them from TIM's manipulation.

#858
Dave of Canada
Posté 23 décembre 2011 - 01:35

Dave of Canada
  • Members
  • 17 484 messages
Cerberus never went rogue, it was founded outside the Alliance. They either retconned it from ME1 or decided to team up with the Alliance after it was founded.

And they've also evolved humanity and cared for it's interests since it's founding, responsible for defending human interests with assassinations / experiments and being largely responsible for the creation of human biotics and their training / advancement.

#859
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 23 décembre 2011 - 01:40

Guest_Luc0s_*
  • Guests

Another_Golden_Dragon wrote...

*blablabla Cerberus is eeevulll blablablabla OMG they're anti-human blablablabla*



You need to look at the bigger picture here. You're staring yourself blind at how eeeeeevullll Cerberus is that you forgot about the real threat: THE REAPERS!

And since Cerberus is in fact THE ONLY ONE who's helping you to STOP THOSE REAPERS in ME2, I think you should stop looking a gift horse in the mouth and be happy at at least SOMEONE is willing to do something against the reapers.

Where would you be without Cerberus in ME2? Where would Shepard be? Well, for starters, HE'D BE DEAD!

Modifié par Luc0s, 23 décembre 2011 - 01:46 .

#860
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 23 décembre 2011 - 01:42

Guest_Saphra Deden_*
  • Guests

Seboist wrote...

What they could have done was for Cerberus to turn Omega's Vorcha into a proxy army.


Or just turn them into fertilizer

#861
Seboist
Posté 23 décembre 2011 - 01:47

Seboist
  • Members
  • 11 989 messages

Saphra Deden wrote...

Seboist wrote...

What they could have done was for Cerberus to turn Omega's Vorcha into a proxy army.


Or just turn them into fertilizer


Not before you though. :devil:

#862
didymos1120
Posté 23 décembre 2011 - 01:53

didymos1120
  • Members
  • 14 580 messages

Luc0s wrote...

Irrelevant, because the cell that actually killed Admiral Kahoku was a rogue cell that broke apart from TIM and the rest of Cerberus. The cell went rogue. Miranda tells you this if you ask her about it in ME2.


No, Miranda doesn't:

The teams you encountered before your... accident were mostly part of our military division.


That's all she has to say about the status of those Cerberus cells, and you can't even ask her about Kahoku at all.  In fact, the only time his name even comes up is in a galactic news story, and the only cell that's speculated to have gone rogue was the one on Pragia. No idea where you got this notion from.

#863
Killjoy Cutter
Posté 23 décembre 2011 - 05:10

Killjoy Cutter
  • Members
  • 6 005 messages
Why shouldn't you trust TIM?

Because he has a history of lying to Shep, let's start there.

#864
Mr. Gogeta34
Posté 23 décembre 2011 - 05:13

Mr. Gogeta34
  • Members
  • 4 033 messages
We don't know the details on everyhing. The times we do know the details (Overlord/Teltin)... most of the time it's actually not Cerberus's fault and ultimately the missteps of operatives on the ground.

#865
Seboist
Posté 23 décembre 2011 - 05:23

Seboist
  • Members
  • 11 989 messages

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Why shouldn't you trust TIM?

Because he has a history of lying to Shep, let's start there.


My femshep fully trusts her man to do the right thing for the benefit of humanity.

#866
Mr. Gogeta34
Posté 23 décembre 2011 - 05:28

Mr. Gogeta34
  • Members
  • 4 033 messages

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Why shouldn't you trust TIM?

Because he has a history of lying to Shep, let's start there.


Anderson also "withholds information due to threat of info leak" so...

Hackett does it too... everything's "need to know" with them.  None of them should be trusted fully.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 23 décembre 2011 - 05:29 .

#867
Dave of Canada
Posté 23 décembre 2011 - 05:32

Dave of Canada
  • Members
  • 17 484 messages

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Why shouldn't you trust TIM?

Because he has a history of lying to Shep, let's start there.


Because he's working for the same goal as me and has shown that he's willing to do everything to achieve it.

"OH NO HE LIED TO ME, HE'S TOTALLY NOT GOING TO HELP ME FIGHT THE REAPERS" doesn't work for me, mostly everybody who Shepard worked for has lied directly to his face.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 23 décembre 2011 - 05:33 .

#868
DrFumb1ezX
Posté 23 décembre 2011 - 05:35

DrFumb1ezX
  • Members
  • 468 messages
Can I just shoot whoever is stupid enough to fight me?
TIM, you're helping me? Great, start pooling resources!
TIM, you're my enemy? *BAM BAM BAM* Not anymore!

Difficult dilemma solved.;)

"Violence- If it doesn't solve all of your problems, you simply aren't using enough of it."

Modifié par soccerchick, 23 décembre 2011 - 05:36 .

#869
didymos1120
Posté 23 décembre 2011 - 05:41

didymos1120
  • Members
  • 14 580 messages

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

We don't know the details on everyhing. The times we do know the details (Overlord/Teltin)... most of the time it's actually not Cerberus's fault and ultimately the missteps of operatives on the ground.


Ever heard the term "lack of oversight"? 

#870
InvincibleHero
Posté 23 décembre 2011 - 05:41

InvincibleHero
  • Members
  • 2 676 messages

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Why shouldn't you trust TIM?

Because he has a history of lying to Shep, let's start there.


Anderson also "withholds information due to threat of info leak" so...

Hackett does it too... everything's "need to know" with them.  None of them should be trusted fully.

I agree that Shepard is flying blind with the alliance and outright used by Hackett at times. They mislead which is akin to a lie. IM was freer with intel and gave you less parameters for completing missions. He only cared that you got them done.

#871
Guest_Catch This Fade_*
Posté 23 décembre 2011 - 05:42

Guest_Catch This Fade_*
  • Guests

soccerchick wrote...

Can I just shoot whoever is stupid enough to fight me?
TIM, you're helping me? Great, start pooling resources!
TIM, you're my enemy? *BAM BAM BAM* Not anymore!

Difficult dilemma solved.;)

"Violence- If it doesn't solve all of your problems, you simply aren't using enough of it."

Wiser words have never been spoken.

#872
ultimatekotorfan
Posté 23 décembre 2011 - 05:46

ultimatekotorfan
  • Members
  • 152 messages

Saphra Deden wrote...

Renegades should get most of the best outcomes because they approach their decisions logically. Paragons should often suffer for giving into emotion and weakness.


Oh, no one's heard you go on about this a million times. <_<

#873
DrFumb1ezX
Posté 23 décembre 2011 - 05:52

DrFumb1ezX
  • Members
  • 468 messages
Renegades get the job done no matter what.
Paragons get the job done without compromising their morals.
And If I remember correctly, either path is a viable way to go through the game. Who says one should be punished more than another for their choices? People play the game the way they want.
Besides, Real ME fans are all Paragades. XD

#874
Clover Rider
Posté 23 décembre 2011 - 06:00

Clover Rider
  • Members
  • 9 434 messages

Dave of Canada wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Why shouldn't you trust TIM?

Because he has a history of lying to Shep, let's start there.


Because he's working for the same goal as me and has shown that he's willing to do everything to achieve it.

"OH NO HE LIED TO ME, HE'S TOTALLY NOT GOING TO HELP ME FIGHT THE REAPERS" doesn't work for me, mostly everybody who Shepard worked for has lied directly to his face.

Yeah he should try kill you when the Reapers are dead.

#875
Seboist
Posté 23 décembre 2011 - 06:03

Seboist
  • Members
  • 11 989 messages

Some Geth wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Why shouldn't you trust TIM?

Because he has a history of lying to Shep, let's start there.


Because he's working for the same goal as me and has shown that he's willing to do everything to achieve it.

"OH NO HE LIED TO ME, HE'S TOTALLY NOT GOING TO HELP ME FIGHT THE REAPERS" doesn't work for me, mostly everybody who Shepard worked for has lied directly to his face.

Yeah he should try kill you when the Reapers are dead.


That's what should happen with Parashep.
Retourner dans General Discussion


  1. The BioWare Forum
  2. → Mass Effect
  3. → Mass Effect 3
  4. → General Discussion