1127 réponses à ce sujet

[Exia001]

Then whats the point of the ramble about the 'state' of ME3 when it is going to exist as it will.

[Dave of Canada]

Because I like to argue.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Exia001 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Oh, okay.

Then you can never say that anything about ME3 is inconsistent, complain about how the choices don't matter or how it's written in a poorly explained way, because then you're contradicting yourself.

As long as it works (which it always does in some capacity, according to yourself), any bullsh*t reason is okay.

There's is a difference between complaning that some expalantion in-game is horribly written and makes little sense, but accepting it as a fact, and outright denying it....whihc is what you are doing.

So yes, we can complain that X is incosistent, that it makes little sense or that it's poorly written.
What we can't do is refuse to acknowledge X as an argument.

Autism doesn't work that way. Neither does brinigng people back to life. But it's in the game.
I can't deny Sheppard was brought back to life, even tough it makes no medical sense whatsoever. It happend. Period.
In the ME universe, such thing just work. Hence, whey in the ME univers autism DOES work that way.

Just because its a game, it doesn't mean whatever it says goes. Autism is a stated disability, thus it can only work one way. if the grass was blue and the sky green on earth, you'd complain but I could say 'Thats just how earth is in ME, No? Thought not

Indeed, I could complain. I probably would.

But that doesn change the fact that the sky there IS green and the grass IS blue.
I can dislike something for whatever reason I want.
But I CANOOT dismiss it just because I don't like it.

I coudlnt' go and say "There grass on earth in ME isn't blue"... because we were shown it is. It may be stupid, it may be redicolus, but it is there.

[ODST 5723]

I got the same military division dialogue and have never heard about this little tidbit until now. Do you have the choice progression or any video of this?

[Bad King]

Luc0s wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Irrelevant, because the cell that actually killed Admiral Kahoku was a rogue cell that broke apart from TIM and the rest of Cerberus. The cell went rogue. Miranda tells you this if you ask her about it in ME2.

No, Miranda doesn't:

The teams you encountered before your... accident were mostly part of our military division.

Yes, Miranda does.

You didn't pick the right dialogue options. You probably looked over it, because when you ask Miranda about the Rachni and Torian experiments specifically she tells you SPECIFICALLY that those cells went rogue and did operated on their own without TIM's premission.

She doesn't claim that those cells went rogue, instead she gives justifications for their actions (she states that the creepers were mindless and the rachni were abandoned once Cerberus realised how intelligent they were).

[Andorfiend]

Luc0s wrote...

Yes, Miranda does.

You didn't pick the right dialogue options. You probably looked over it, because when you ask Miranda about the Rachni and Torian experiments specifically she tells you SPECIFICALLY that those cells went rogue and did operated on their own without TIM's premission.

But what reason do we have to believe her?

In her second or third line of the game she sneers at Jacob for having a conscience and telling Shepard the truth.

She is literally TIMs ****. She'll say anything he wants her to say.

Even if she thinks that is true, we know TIM is perfectly happy lying to peoples faces.

Given his paranoid, control-freak nature, it's far more likely that he or Miranda are lying than that he actually lost control.

EDI tells you that the primary limit on how many cells cerberus operates is TIMs ability to multi-task as he prefers to keep direct oversight.

The Thresher Maw cell operated for years did TIM pay no attention during that time? He was signing pay checks.

If Miranda/TIM lied to you, then they can't be trusted. If she told the truth then TIM managed to lose control of multiple projects across years of time, and he's therefore so incompetant you shouldn't trust him to order pizza.

Getting back to the Collector base, how does TIM get there anyway if you deny it to him? EDI is the only ship that can use the Omega-4 relay. And if you give it to him, how does he hold it? EDIs dialogue implies there are other collector ships. What's to stop them from taking it back?

[didymos1120]

Luc0s wrote...
Yes, Miranda does.

You didn't pick the right dialogue options. You probably looked over it, because when you ask Miranda about the Rachni and Torian experiments specifically she tells you SPECIFICALLY that those cells went rogue and did operated on their own without TIM's premission.

Let me be clearer: no such dialogue exists.  Here's what she actually says about the rachni and creepers:

"The husks were already dead, the Thorian creatures were mindless, and the rachni were abandoned once we understood their intelligence."

and:

"We weren't breeding an army. We were breeding expendable shock troops for high-risk scenarios. How many soldiers died in Saren's attack on Eden Prime? How many would have lived if we'd had just a dozen rachni soldiers on our side?"

Not a single word about rogue cells.  She only ever disavows the Teltin stuff with Jack.

Modifié par didymos1120, 23 décembre 2011 - 03:38 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

It's not exactly high praise for TIM and Cerberus either way -- at best, they have a history of cells going rogue all the time...

And that still leaves the rediculously high casualty rate for research teams unaddressed...

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 23 décembre 2011 - 04:37 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Andorfiend wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Yes, Miranda does.

You didn't pick the right dialogue options. You probably looked over it, because when you ask Miranda about the Rachni and Torian experiments specifically she tells you SPECIFICALLY that those cells went rogue and did operated on their own without TIM's premission.

But what reason do we have to believe her?

In her second or third line of the game she sneers at Jacob for having a conscience and telling Shepard the truth.

She is literally TIMs ****. She'll say anything he wants her to say.

Even if she thinks that is true, we know TIM is perfectly happy lying to peoples faces.

Is that your rebuttal? "He/she could be lying?"
Everyone could be lying. Tali could be lying. Legion could be lying .Hackett could be lying. Yet you'll never argue that, now will you? Of course, you won't, because you don't have a beef agaisnt those characters.

Unless you can prove she's lying, then she isn't lying. Period.

This response of yours clearly shows you got nuttin...and have to relay on unsopported scenarios

[Killjoy Cutter]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

And what reason do you have for trusting Tali? Garrus? Hackett? the Council?
How do you know they won't turn against you?

It's not naive to not think TIM will turn on you. He has no reason. No real motive. Nothing to gain with it.

If your whole fear/theory rides on poeple doing utterly illogical and senseless things, then by that abortion of logic, trusting anyone is stupid.

I wouldn't trust the Council; I'd count on them to be the petty, myopic career bureaucrats that they are.

Garrus and Tali?  Never lied to Shep as far as I know.

Hacket?  Never lied to Shep as far as I know, please tell me if you have an example.  

Anderson is a little suspect after he dodged the truth about what was going on with the VS and Horizon. 

TIM?  I know TIM lied to Shep multiple times, in ways that could have been lethal to Shep, the squad, and everyone on the Normandy.  I have no reason to trust TIM.


Yes, anyone could hypothetically be lying.  The difference is, we know that TIM lies to Shep in practice, repeatedly. 

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 23 décembre 2011 - 04:45 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Mr.House wrote...

Seboist wrote...

TIM was always meant to be a womanizer as evidenced by this old concept.

I have no issues with him being a womaniser, I have issues with him sleeping with women EVERYDAY and somehow the SB knows about this? <_<

The Shadow Broker thing jumped the shark in those bits of information.  They made the SB out to basically be omniscient and able to know anything convenient to whatever the writer felt like, with no practical or rational limits on the ability to access whatever seemed "kewl" at the time. 

[didymos1120]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Anderson is a little suspect after he dodged the truth about what was going on with the VS and Horizon. 

Enh, not really.  You can call him on it later, and he'll tell you straight-up why he did it.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Luc0s wrote...

And about the supposed other Collector ships: Maybe they were docked at the base when Shepard invaded, just like that one ship that attacked the SR2 when Shepard approached the base? If that is so, then that means ALL Collectors are wiped out during the explosion.

Only one of them launched to attack the Normandy because.... ?

[Killjoy Cutter]

didymos1120 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Anderson is a little suspect after he dodged the truth about what was going on with the VS and Horizon. 

Enh, not really.  You can call him on it later, and he'll tell you straight-up why he did it.

Still a bit suspect in my mind.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

And what reason do you have for trusting Tali? Garrus? Hackett? the Council?
How do you know they won't turn against you?

It's not naive to not think TIM will turn on you. He has no reason. No real motive. Nothing to gain with it.

If your whole fear/theory rides on poeple doing utterly illogical and senseless things, then by that abortion of logic, trusting anyone is stupid.

I wouldn't trust the Council; I'd count on them to be the petty, myopic career bureaucrats that they are.

Garrus and Tali?  Never lied to Shep as far as I know.

Hacket?  Never lied to Shep as far as I know, please tell me if you have an example.  

Anderson is a little suspect after he dodged the truth about what was going on with the VS and Horizon. 

TIM?  I know TIM lied to Shep multiple times, in ways that could have been lethal to Shep, the squad, and everyone on the Normandy.  I have no reason to trust TIM.


Yes, anyone could hypothetically be lying.  The difference is, we know that TIM lies to Shep in practice, repeatedly. 

Wrong. You're making a elephant out of a flea. Yelling "EPIC BETRAYL" when everything TIM said (and didn't say) was perfectly rational.

And you're wrong. Your cewmates did withold information from you. They dont tell you everything right away. You have to slowly get it out of them.

Yes, TIM sent Sheppard into danger. Boo-hoo!
Shep is a soldier, get used to that.

[Mr.House]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Anderson is a little suspect after he dodged the truth about what was going on with the VS and Horizon. 

Enh, not really.  You can call him on it later, and he'll tell you straight-up why he did it.

Still a bit suspect in my mind.

Because he's not going to tell someone who was dead for two years, brought back to life from Cerberus and is well knowen to be working for them right away makes him suspect? What

[Lotion Soronarr]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

And about the supposed other Collector ships: Maybe they were docked at the base when Shepard invaded, just like that one ship that attacked the SR2 when Shepard approached the base? If that is so, then that means ALL Collectors are wiped out during the explosion.

Only one of them launched to attack the Normandy because.... ?

The others weren't ready to launch? Repairs?

[Dean_the_Young]

didymos1120 wrote...

Luc0s wrote...
Yes, Miranda does.

You didn't pick the right dialogue options. You probably looked over it, because when you ask Miranda about the Rachni and Torian experiments specifically she tells you SPECIFICALLY that those cells went rogue and did operated on their own without TIM's premission.

Let me be clearer: no such dialogue exists.  Here's what she actually says about the rachni and creepers:

"The husks were already dead, the Thorian creatures were mindless, and the rachni were abandoned once we understood their intelligence."

and:

"We weren't breeding an army. We were breeding expendable shock troops for high-risk scenarios. How many soldiers died in Saren's attack on Eden Prime? How many would have lived if we'd had just a dozen rachni soldiers on our side?"

Not a single word about rogue cells.  She only ever disavows the Teltin stuff with Jack.

Teltin is pretty much the only cell we know of that, as a cell, went rogue.


The only other cell that ever purposely subverted the Illusive Man to any extent was the Overlord Cell... and that was only in so much that Doctor Archer put off telling the Illusive Man what he was going do in order to make a dramatic report. Which is less about being rogue and more about a project manner withholding a report in order to deliver a surprise.



Really the argument that Cerberus is plagued by rogue cells is bizaar, whether used by defenders or accusers of Cerberus.

[Mr.House]

Andorfiend wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Yes, Miranda does.

You didn't pick the right dialogue options. You probably looked over it, because when you ask Miranda about the Rachni and Torian experiments specifically she tells you SPECIFICALLY that those cells went rogue and did operated on their own without TIM's premission.

But what reason do we have to believe her?

In her second or third line of the game she sneers at Jacob for having a conscience and telling Shepard the truth.

She is literally TIMs ****. She'll say anything he wants her to say.

So why does she resign from Cerberus if you blow up the base then?

[ODST 5723]

Luc0s wrote...

Andorfiend wrote...

Even if she thinks that is true, we know TIM is perfectly happy lying to peoples faces.

No you don't know. TIM lied only once to Shepard. ONLY ONCE did TIM flat-out lie against Shepard in ME2.
ONE LIE is enough for you to assume "TIM is perfeclty happy lying to peoples faces"? Talking about about paranoid... 

TIM and Cerberus lied to Aria about Grayson's involvement in her daughter's death to manipulate her existing suspiscions  and gain her aid and perpetuated that lie to ensure that she didn't interfere with their plans beyond the Omega-4 relay.

[Killjoy Cutter]

What's this about TIM only lying "once" to Shepard? Horizon, and the Collector vessel raid. That's twice minimum.