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[Someone With Mass]

jreezy wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Renegades should get most of the best outcomes because they approach their decisions logically. Paragons should often suffer for giving into emotion and weakness.

*sigh*

There's no way he typed that with a straight face.

More like a stupid face.

Punching people who are merely in your way or those who are in need of medication is hardly the most logical action. Or making other people's lives a hell by closing their business, even when you have no way of benefiting from it.

[Severyx]

Each side has consequences, they're just different consequences. What you consider to be good or bad is irrelevent, and having differing outcomes gives both credibility and weight to choosing one over the other.

[Bleachrude]

- Focus on Sovereign (Neutral): Killing Sovereign is obviously the highest priority.

This is the one I tend to think makes least sense...when the DA contacts you, they tell you their main drive is offline (FTL not available) and their kinetic barriers are at 40%.

Which means that the ship can still manoeuvre and fight...

Why wouldn't you use the honking big ass gun to hammer Sovereign?

[Dave of Canada]

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

Both should have their advantageous ... ME3 will show how Bioware can handle that.

Judging by the script? Horribly.

[AVPen]

Luc0s wrote...

- Keep Collector base (Ren): Even when you don't trust TIM, you can't deny that this base might contain valuable intel on the reapers.

Question:
If you don't trust someone at all, why the **** would you just hand him a goody-bag of the Reapers tech for him to turn around and screw you over on? Unless you really don't trust him at all on major issues, but you're holding on to just a sliver of hope that maybe, maybe he'll be a good little boy and share some of his goodies with you?

[Bleachrude]

But not one ship in the alliance fleet is actually a dreadnought and not one of them has the firepower even from the broadside of the DA.

There's nothing that states that a DA (or ANY dreadnought for that matter) is ineffective at close range, it's just that for dreadnought-class vechicles, they are equally as effective at far range...

(then again, this is bioware where cutscenes of battles leave you shaking your head...Really, did Loghain and Cailan never hear about the oh so Roman pike and shield wall?)

[Sebbe1337o]

Renegade and Paragon should both have good and bad consequences - not all Paragon = good and all Renegade = bad.

[John Renegade]

AVPen wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

- Keep Collector base (Ren): Even when you don't trust TIM, you can't deny that this base might contain valuable intel on the reapers.

Question:
If you don't trust someone at all, why the **** would you just hand him a goody-bag of the Reapers tech for him to turn around and screw you over on? Unless you really don't trust him at all on major issues, but you're holding on to just a sliver of hope that maybe, maybe he'll be a good little boy and share some of his goodies with you?

Well, I would say that he doesn't necessarily need to share anything. He just needs to at least partially use that tech to fight the common enemy. 

[John Renegade]

Sebbe1337o wrote...

Renegade and Paragon should both have good and bad consequences - not all Paragon = good and all Renegade = bad.

That's all I (and a big number of other Renegades) ask for.

[Wulfram]

The sensible choice with the base would be to keep it but give it to the Council or Alliance. Shame it's not allowed.

[John Renegade]

Bleachrude wrote...

But not one ship in the alliance fleet is actually a dreadnought and not one of them has the firepower even from the broadside of the DA.

There's nothing that states that a DA (or ANY dreadnought for that matter) is ineffective at close range, it's just that for dreadnought-class vechicles, they are equally as effective at far range...

(then again, this is bioware where cutscenes of battles leave you shaking your head...Really, did Loghain and Cailan never hear about the oh so Roman pike and shield wall?)

Everyone in the battle serving in the Citadel fleet thought that they are only fighting a geth army. Why would the DA, even if it was capable of it, go out of their way and draw attention to itself by trying to shoot at Sovereign and the geth? Why not try to get away and wait for reinforcements? That ship was barely holding together after the Alliance saved them. Hell, it wasn't even running away anymore or shooting back at the geth ships, which were tearing it apart; shortly before the Alliance came to aid.

That said, you are right regarding those cutscenes.

Modifié par John Renegade, 19 décembre 2011 - 08:13 .

[Yezdigerd]

Luc0s wrote...

Because the DA is a dreadnought and not suitable for close-combat. It's not a combat ship. For this particular situation, I'd think the complete Alliance fleet is more useful than half of the Alliance fleet and 1 dreadnought.

Your statement haven't anything in common with the codex. Dreadnoughts are characterized as "the ultimate arbiter of space warfare" and "No sane commander would face a dreadnought with anything less than another dreadnought."
Furthermore the Destiny's Ascension is described as having almost as much firepower as the rest of the Asari Navy combined. A Navy almost 3 times the size of the system alliance, total mind you, not just the 5th fleet at the citadel.

Modifié par Yezdigerd, 19 décembre 2011 - 08:28 .

[Andorfiend]

Bleachrude wrote...

But not one ship in the alliance fleet is actually a dreadnought and not one of them has the firepower even from the broadside of the DA.

There's nothing that states that a DA (or ANY dreadnought for that matter) is ineffective at close range, it's just that for dreadnought-class vechicles, they are equally as effective at far range...

(then again, this is bioware where cutscenes of battles leave you shaking your head...Really, did Loghain and Cailan never hear about the oh so Roman pike and shield wall?)

*snort* I did a post about that after DA came out. I titled it "Ferelden: Land of idiots."

But yeah, none of the cinematic battle cut scenes reflect the codex entries for how space battles in ME are supposed to work. On the other hand neither does the dialogue.

Joker: "Okay boys we're going in and we're going in hot! Stay tight on my 6!"
5th fleet: "Or we could just sit here and shoot our main guns, like we've been doing for 10 minutes now."

[Yezdigerd]

John Renegade wrote...

Everyone in the battle serving in the Citadel fleet thought that they are only fighting a geth army. Why would the DA, even if it was capable of it, go out of their way and draw attention to itself by trying to shoot at Sovereign and the geth? Why not try to get away and wait for reinforcements?

Because it's superdreadnought, a massive war machine that have no equal in the known galaxy? A better question would be what it's doing ferrying the council around.

[John Renegade]

Yezdigerd wrote...

John Renegade wrote...

Everyone in the battle serving in the Citadel fleet thought that they are only fighting a geth army. Why would the DA, even if it was capable of it, go out of their way and draw attention to itself by trying to shoot at Sovereign and the geth? Why not try to get away and wait for reinforcements?

Because it's superdreadnought, a massive war machine that have no equal in the known galaxy? A better question would be what it's doing ferrying the council around.

Don't ask me about the Council's own stupid emergency procedures.

Have you noticed, how nicely was that "massive war machine" splashed around in a heat/shock wave thanks to non-dreadnought weapons with the Citadel in the background, if you won't try to save it?

Now, if you save it, you do so mere moments before it's demise. I doubt the Destiny Ascension's personal "health bar" is doing well at that point.

[Wulfram]

Was it ferrying them away or was it just the toughest ship around and thus the logical place for them to stay during the battle?

[Dean_the_Young]

Ferrying them away. The Citadel was being abandoned and the Council evacuated.

[John Renegade]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Ferrying them away. The Citadel was being abandoned and the Council evacuated.

Just to add to Dean's point, Avina says this exact thing before you head up to the Citadel Tower. We didn't think this up.

EDIT: The crew members on the DA itself say that too.

"Abandon the Citadel! Evacuate the Council!"

Modifié par John Renegade, 19 décembre 2011 - 08:56 .

[TheWerdna]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

For a risk vs. risk decision, such as Collector Base, the consequences should be as close to equal as they can make it: pros and cons for both sides, only pros for both sides, only cons for both sides.

No.

Low risk,  High gains (keep base) vs. High risk, no gains (destroy base) should bite paragons in the ass. Teh consequence should hit htem like the first of an angry god.

Of course, that's not gonan happen. Bio will wuss out of making logical decisions with logical consequences...

I am thinking it should go more along the lines of

Paragon (Destroyed Base): No risk, no reward

Renagade(Kept Base): High Reward, High Risk (Very good chance of being harmful unless handled properly in ME3)

[Random citizen]

Luc0s wrote...

 Sometimes the Renegade choice is the most logical choice. Sometimes the Paragon choice is the most logical choice. That's how it is in Mass Effect.


The most logical choices in my opion are:

ME1:
- Kill Fist (Ren): Fist is a scumbag. There is no reason to let him go freely.
- Save Feros colonists (Par): Humans have to help each other, because no one else will.
- Kill Shaila (Ren): She was indoctrinated, possibly still is. Too risky to let her stay with the Feros colonists.
- Save Rachni Queen (Par): She could become a valuable ally against the reapers.
- Kill Balak (Ren): He's obviously way too dangerous to let him go.
- Focus on Sovereign (Neutral): Killing Sovereign is obviously the highest priority.

ME2:
- Keep genophage cure data (Par): We need the krogan at their best against the reapers.
- Rewrite heretic geth (Par): With Legion, the geth are valuable ally against the reapers, thus more geth = better.
- Advocate peace between the quarians and geth (Par): We need every species focussed on the reapers.
- Stop project Overlord (Par): With Legion and his geth as our ally, Overlord becomes counter-productive.
- Keep Collector base (Ren): Even when you don't trust TIM, you can't deny that this base might contain valuable intel on the reapers.

No, no, no.
The problem here is the writing.
spoilers follows
:
Killing fist or letting him go are both pretty questionable choices. Turing him in to c-sec would have been much more reasonable.  Strangely enough, all too often the most logical action (given you are not an overly naive or seriously emotionally damaged psycho) is not really offered as an option. Killing Shiala is extreme to say the least, but it is clear her condition is unclear so she should probably be put under medical and behavioural supervision. Saving the Rachni is of course preferable over, for all Shepard knows, completing the genocide of an entire spices and culture. Still, the Rachni are potentially highly dangerous and the planet should be put under heavy security so that nothing leaves the planet in an uncontrolled way.
Killing Balak, its debatable. Personally I let him go to save the hostages. I hope I catch him I ME3.
When it comes to the collector base, the option of turning it over to the council would have been an interesting possibility.

[John Renegade]

TheWerdna wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

For a risk vs. risk decision, such as Collector Base, the consequences should be as close to equal as they can make it: pros and cons for both sides, only pros for both sides, only cons for both sides.

No.

Low risk,  High gains (keep base) vs. High risk, no gains (destroy base) should bite paragons in the ass. Teh consequence should hit htem like the first of an angry god.

Of course, that's not gonan happen. Bio will wuss out of making logical decisions with logical consequences...

I am thinking it should go more along the lines of

Paragon (Destroyed Base): No risk, no reward

Renagade(Kept Base): High Reward, High Risk (Very good chance of being harmful unless handled properly in ME3)

Would be fine by me. At least that would be a balanced and equal choice. (as long as the "proper handling" would be balanced as well, if it were about choices and not only about not doing side missions or something like that, of course)

Modifié par John Renegade, 19 décembre 2011 - 08:58 .

[crimzontearz]

cracked.com/blog/5-real-skills-video-games-have-secretly-been-teaching-us_p2/




there

Modifié par crimzontearz, 19 décembre 2011 - 09:04 .