1127 réponses à ce sujet

[Seboist]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Another_Golden_Dragon wrote...

And again with the "I'm right, and everyone who doesn't agree with me is wrong" hateposts. BOR-RING!

Agreed, lets hope the Paragon Favoritism ends... and the plot gap/hole that's currently in place for those who keep the Base gets fixed.

As it stands:

"(The Blue Button is right, and everyone who doesn't agree with me gets less content, less lives saved, less story continuity, less praise, and less positive results with no upside to making the choice over the alternative Blue choice)"

Yeah, the two "paths" in ME are Paragon and gimped troll Paragon.

[BellaStrega]

Exia001 wrote...

Just because its a game, it doesn't mean whatever it says goes. Autism is a stated disability, thus it can only work one way. if the grass was blue and the sky green on earth, you'd complain but I could say 'Thats just how earth is in ME, No? Thought not

Late to this, but autism actually works several ways. You can have two people diagnosed with autism who were diagnosed on the basis of different criteria (you need 6 out of 12, and it's possible for two people to have no symptoms in common).

That doesn't mean it works like it's shown in Overlord, however. That was just laughable.

I do find it interesting, however, that:

• Autism is altered for dramatic/plot reasons in Overlord as an excuse for plugging a human into a VI to control Geth, and we must accept this because it is the plot that was given to us
• Cerberus ends up as Shepard's enemies, and this makes no sense and must be complained about at length

It seems to me that it's not a question of whether Mass Effect can include implausible, unrealistic things (aside from the basic premises of space travel, extraterrestrial life, etc. that make the setting work), but that things one is not emotionally invested in can be implausible or ridiculous, but things that one is emotionally invested in must be one particular way or Bioware sucks.

Nothing in the ME stories bothers me more than the way autism is represented in Overlord, but I live with it because a) it's a game, and On the second playthrough I was ready for the ridiculous plot twist, and didn't have to wrestle with my suspension of disbelief all over again. Plus, c) It was not as crappy as the "autistic child with superpowers" episode of The 4400.

Strange that some posters on this thread can't do the same with Cerberus. Or think that only their disappointment with Cerberus is worth criticism but Overlord's portrayal of autism must simply be accepted at face value.

Totally inconsistent approach there.

[Dean_the_Young]

What about those of us who feel the Overlord execution was a flop in its own right?

[Kaiser Shepard]

The bad way autism is portrayed aside, I found Overlord to be the most enjoyable ME DLC so far.

[BellaStrega]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

What amuses me is that in all those debates about the Collector Base and TIM, in all these months, no one - not one person - has yet managed to debunk the reaper superiority analysis. No one has even tried to dispute the numbers I gave there.
They just ignore it and pretend I didn't' post it. I guess that's the only thing they can do about it, since they can't debunk it, and it causes their reasonignto crumble.

Nope. You ignore responses and later claim they don't exist. You've done it repeatedly in this thread.

[BellaStrega]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Lotion they are not as unbeatable as you profess. Their choice of tactics state otherwise. They ambush and gain control of citadel. They then cut off all relays and en masse system to system so they cannot be fought in numbers or effectively. They fight by proxy and weaken foes by indoctrination. If they were invincible they'd just wade in and be done with it. They are schoolyard bullies worried about losing their existence not hah hah you don't stand a chance threat.

The fact their plan didn't go off to specs means they have to fight in a manner they are not used to against more effective resistance. Yes singular ship to ship they have advantages but they are thousands and the major races can bring much more numbers to bear. They need the genetic material and cannot just vaporize entire planets or they would just do so.

This objection has been brought up here in at least one of the three threads this topic's been discussed in over the past week or two, but Lotion just dismisses it and then says no one made the argument.

He's all about contradiction, but not very strong in debate.

[BellaStrega]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

So now it's about "motivation"?
I have to motivate you? Seriously?

Either you want ot discuss it or you don't. Either you have counter-arguments, or you don't. And since you avoid posting any.....you don't.

Dodge the issue all you want- I'm gonna keep bringing it up. You can't keep dodging it forever.

It only takes one round with you dodging arguments you can't answer to see that trying to engage you is a pointless waste of time. Every time it's pointed out you dismiss arguments without paying attention to them, you expect people to repeat their arguments over and over and over and over and over again. Seriously, who'd want to waste their time trying to have 50 First Debates with you?

[BellaStrega]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

What about those of us who feel the Overlord execution was a flop in its own right?

Then I agree with your discerning mind. 


But I agree with the others who replied - it has really enjoyable gameplay, and the dilemma at the end is handled well, at least.

Modifié par BellaStrega, 25 décembre 2011 - 04:20 .

[Seboist]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

The bad way autism is portrayed aside, I found Overlord to be the most enjoyable ME DLC so far.

I loved the horror elements in it. It's too bad there's no TIM meetings before and after it though.

[Seboist]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

The bad way autism is portrayed aside, I found Overlord to be the most enjoyable ME DLC so far.

I loved the horror elements in it. It's too bad there's no TIM meetings before and after it though.

The biggest flaw is the same flaw all Mass Effect DLC has: the squad is always silent. Tali and Legion should have especially had dialog, even a lot. Same with Tali and Garrus should have had actual dialogue in LOTSB.

ME2 should have been delayed to better integrate LOTSB(Overord,Kasumi and Zaeed too). You'd think that the freakin Shadow Broker working with the Collectors should have been important enough to be in the main story but nope.

[Dave of Canada]

BellaStrega wrote...
*snip*
Totally inconsistent approach there.

The Overlord project is shown as successful, the person on the other side of the table doesn't consider it canon due to it's poor writing. There's a large difference here between us. We're not pretending the events didn't occur because of how poorly written it is, we argue that it's poorly written. That's it. Same thing with The Illusive Man, Cerberus, Renegades and Paragons.

We have to accept the fact that Paragons are walking gods, Renegades are colossal failures and The Illusive Man has a tophat and monocle. The events do happen, we have to accept it as fact. We just don't have to like it and it's why we're constantly posting about it (from shepard's perspective and from ours), I see no inconsistency.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 25 décembre 2011 - 07:19 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Renegades are still awesome... they just never have their day over the Paragon alternative. None of their sacrifices pan out to any identifiable benefit over an alternative (blue) choice.

The real issue, as far as I'm concerned, is how it ruins the notion of tough choices when you know that one choice will give you the best outcomes regardless of what's at stake.  No sacrifice is ever necessary to get a better result.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 25 décembre 2011 - 08:26 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

BellaStrega wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

So now it's about "motivation"?
I have to motivate you? Seriously?

Either you want ot discuss it or you don't. Either you have counter-arguments, or you don't. And since you avoid posting any.....you don't.

Dodge the issue all you want- I'm gonna keep bringing it up. You can't keep dodging it forever.

It only takes one round with you dodging arguments you can't answer to see that trying to engage you is a pointless waste of time. Every time it's pointed out you dismiss arguments without paying attention to them, you expect people to repeat their arguments over and over and over and over and over again. Seriously, who'd want to waste their time trying to have 50 First Debates with you?

Oh? What question have I avoided answering?

I asked the question and don't give me that BS about how you did and I gnored it. If I did it would be in the thread somewhere. Prove it. Post it.

If you can't prove it, and you can't answer thequestion, then what are you doing here? Whom are you trying to kid?

Again and again and again I have been asking the question,and again and again and again have you lot been avoiding answering it like aplauge. Even now you're avoiding it.

[Lotion Soronarr]

BellaStrega wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

Lotion they are not as unbeatable as you profess. Their choice of tactics state otherwise. They ambush and gain control of citadel. They then cut off all relays and en masse system to system so they cannot be fought in numbers or effectively. They fight by proxy and weaken foes by indoctrination. If they were invincible they'd just wade in and be done with it. They are schoolyard bullies worried about losing their existence not hah hah you don't stand a chance threat.

The fact their plan didn't go off to specs means they have to fight in a manner they are not used to against more effective resistance. Yes singular ship to ship they have advantages but they are thousands and the major races can bring much more numbers to bear. They need the genetic material and cannot just vaporize entire planets or they would just do so.

This objection has been brought up here in at least one of the three threads this topic's been discussed in over the past week or two, but Lotion just dismisses it and then says no one made the argument.

He's all about contradiction, but not very strong in debate.

And that objection is not proof of anything - for the reasons explained earlier. And since I explained exactly why it's wrong, you can't say I'm ignoring or dismissing it.

Try again.

[Lotion Soronarr]

BellaStrega wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

What amuses me is that in all those debates about the Collector Base and TIM, in all these months, no one - not one person - has yet managed to debunk the reaper superiority analysis. No one has even tried to dispute the numbers I gave there.
They just ignore it and pretend I didn't' post it. I guess that's the only thing they can do about it, since they can't debunk it, and it causes their reasonignto crumble.

Nope. You ignore responses and later claim they don't exist. You've done it repeatedly in this thread.

What responses?
If you think you have debunked the issue earlier, please quote it..point me to it.

Show to me - and everyone who is reading this thread - where that happened.

See, the difference between you and me is that when you ask for concrete proof I said/did something I provide links and quotes proving I did. I repeat my argumnets if Ihave to. You? You just say X happened and refuse to back up your words with anything.

So - again - if you got any proof. Post it.

[BellaStrega]

Luc0s wrote...

What I would like to see is that Renegade is just a ALTERNATIVE PATH to the Renegade path, instead of the WORSE PATH.

Right now, Renegades don't get alternative content, Renegades get less content, or sometimes no content at all.


So from meta-gaming perspectives, there is no reason to play Renegade at all. Instead, I'd advice against playing Renegade, because playing Renegade = less content.

This is completely reasonable. This argument is. The fact that Renegade apparently equals less content is not reasonable.

[AgitatedLemon]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

What about those of us who feel the Overlord execution was a flop in its own right?

The only real redeeming factor to Overlord (To me) was seeing DAvid trapped in the Ludovico -esque machine.

Clockwork Orange ftw.

[Wickwrackscar]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

What about those of us who feel the Overlord execution was a flop in its own right?

The only real redeeming factor to Overlord (To me) was seeing DAvid trapped in the Ludovico -esque machine.

Clockwork Orange ftw.

Would be nice to see what happend to David. I hope taking him away changed things for the better for him. Maybe he's still at Grissom Academy in ME3?

[Dean_the_Young]

BellaStrega wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

What about those of us who feel the Overlord execution was a flop in its own right?

Then I agree with your discerning mind. 


But I agree with the others who replied - it has really enjoyable gameplay, and the dilemma at the end is handled well, at least.

Bar the whole pointless visual-shock cruelty. Horror can come in so many more nuanced ways that torture-sadism shock.

Really, Bioware?


I mean, imagine if the brother wasn't mad with pain... but was killing everyone else in some Geth-influenced desire to protect his brother from Cerberus? The idea that he hears/believes that his brother was about to be killed and replaced, and then the entire incident is about a confused, autistic boy trying to protect his brother in the worst possible way?

Bioware has never seemed to recognize that it's the subversion of love, not the primacy of sadism, that produces the most horrifying aspects of human nature.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 25 décembre 2011 - 12:52 .

[Someone With Mass]

Yeah, what was with the random EGD, anyway?

[Dean_the_Young]

General Distress wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

What about those of us who feel the Overlord execution was a flop in its own right?

The only real redeeming factor to Overlord (To me) was seeing DAvid trapped in the Ludovico -esque machine.

Clockwork Orange ftw.

Would be nice to see what happend to David. I hope taking him away changed things for the better for him. Maybe he's still at Grissom Academy in ME3?

Frankly, I never understood why Cerberous wouldn't just kidnap him back.

I mean, his value doesn't go down if he's taken out. The same reasons he was useful in the first place still apply. The 'he's one in a few billion' thing still applies.


Even I'm puzzled at why Cerberus wouldn't take him back at the first opportunity. This is a school, not a high-security prison... and Cerberus has already shown it can bust those.

[BellaStrega]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Bar the whole pointless visual-shock cruelty. Horror can come in so many more nuanced ways that torture-sadism shock.

Really, Bioware?

Yes, I agree with the visual-shock cruelty being a problem. We didn't need to have the guy suspended with cables with his eyelids held open, etc. It was unnecessary. Could have been handled in a less outrageous way.

I mean, imagine if the brother wasn't mad with pain... but was killing everyone else in some Geth-influenced desire to protect his brother from Cerberus? The idea that he hears/believes that his brother was about to be killed and replaced, and then the entire incident is about a confused, autistic boy trying to protect his brother in the worst possible way?

Bioware has never seemed to recognize that it's the subversion of love, not the primacy of sadism, that produces the most horrifying aspects of human nature.

I also found the idea of becoming an infinitely infectious computer virus that would crash the entire galaxy was a bit ridiculous. Even without that element, stopping the whole project and getting him out should have been a priority.