2124 réponses à ce sujet

[BrennaCeDria]

Raenemon wrote...

What do you think of gaming as an art-form? I'm guessing since most of you posted short stories that you feel there is a craft involved with game design that can inspire creative endeavors in other forms, such as fiction. What I am curious is whether you think there can be creative writing that derives from games could approach the quality of what is published in journals and anthologies and novels? In other words, can fanfiction, such as what was written for this competition, be described as encouraging ever surpass the form that inspired it? Even if that was true, would such 'derivative' fiction be take seriously in the 'real world' of publishing agencies and starred reviews?

Would it ever be taken seriously? I highly doubt it. But just as there are fantastic games, movies, and books with terrible fics, AMVs, fan art, etc, just the opposite is true--horrible original material that's vastly improved on in other formats--as well as fantastic original works that have fantastic fan projects spring up around them.

That said, even when something is good enough that it could qualify as "art", I don't think it necessarily should be. Some things (both original and derivative) are fantastic because they allow a mindless escape.

Edit: I just re-read this, and I can barely understand it myself, but the cold meds aren't letting me think of a better way to explain what I'm thinking. Hopefully someone can decipher it.

Modifié par BrennaCeDria, 16 janvier 2012 - 09:08 .

[BrennaCeDria]

Jared Cooper wrote...

Raenemon wrote...

What do you think of gaming as an art-form? I'm guessing since most of you posted short stories that you feel there is a craft involved with game design that can inspire creative endeavors in other forms, such as fiction. What I am curious is whether you think there can be creative writing that derives from games could approach the quality of what is published in journals and anthologies and novels? In other words, can fanfiction, such as what was written for this competition, be described as encouraging ever surpass the form that inspired it? Even if that was true, would such 'derivative' fiction be take seriously in the 'real world' of publishing agencies and starred reviews?

Well you figure, pretty much any Star Wars expanded universe novel would be a good example of this. Some of them are very good; while they could stand on their own without the Star Wars label, they probably wouldn't sell nearly as well.

As for unapproved fanfiction, I think unless it's authorized and commissioned by the original authors of the content, it will be placed in a secondary category, and rightfully so. Not to say there won't be fanfiction that isn't straight up better than the original content, but you need to give credit to the rights holders.

OMG, the Star Wars EU is the example I wish I could have thought of myself. Especially when you look at something like the original Thrawn trilogy, and then compare it to some of the later-90s EU, you almost have to wonder if the later authors were even trying.

[rickf7666]

Raenemon wrote...

What do you think of gaming as an art-form? I'm guessing since most of you posted short stories that you feel there is a craft involved with game design that can inspire creative endeavors in other forms, such as fiction. What I am curious is whether you think there can be creative writing that derives from games could approach the quality of what is published in journals and anthologies and novels? In other words, can fanfiction, such as what was written for this competition, be described as encouraging ever surpass the form that inspired it? Even if that was true, would such 'derivative' fiction be take seriously in the 'real world' of publishing agencies and starred reviews?

Can it be as good if not better than the sorce matirial, absolutly, it just depends on the skill of the writer.  As for publishing that work, well, I think it would be up to the owners of the original matirial.

Fan Fiction is one thing, no money is changing hands.  But just try to publish something based on someone elses intelectual property without direct permision and someone's getting sued.

[Kittnami]

Raenemon wrote...

What do you think of gaming as an art-form? I'm guessing since most of you posted short stories that you feel there is a craft involved with game design that can inspire creative endeavors in other forms, such as fiction. What I am curious is whether you think there can be creative writing that derives from games could approach the quality of what is published in journals and anthologies and novels? In other words, can fanfiction, such as what was written for this competition, be described as encouraging ever surpass the form that inspired it? Even if that was true, would such 'derivative' fiction be take seriously in the 'real world' of publishing agencies and starred reviews?

While I don't think most fanart or fanfiction is taken seriously there have been a couple cases where it has. I can think of at least one. Dragonball Z, the anime, was supposed to end after a certain point. It's very long and after so much the creator was tired of it. When he announced they were bringing it to an end the fans threw such a fit that he extended it. Then when he again announced that he was ending it and would absolutely NOT extend it again two fans got together and approached the creator with a proposal. If they did all the work, would he let them officially continue it. He agreed and thus we have Dragonball GT.

My own opinion is that even though the writing/art is fan based it should still have merit. I do believe that the quality of the fan produced art can surpass its original medium and I, for one, am very happy that such things exist. When you really like a game/movie/etc...where there is only so much time to show things that leaves you wanting more, if you have no talent of your own you can always read the stories other fans have written or see the pictures other fans have drawn. No matter the quality, it affirms that there are other people out there who wonder about the same things you do. When I talk about how much I like Fenris and all my mom has to say is 'but he's not real' it makes me feel better to know that there are other fangirls out there who feel the same way about him as I do 

[Corker]

Coincidentally enough, I just read this article on why a grown-ass person enjoys Young Adult fiction. To quote the article:

s.e.smith wrote...

It’s a pointless, ridiculous, artificial divide much like the one seen between “genre fiction” and “literary fiction,” like one is somehow superior to the other. Sadly, a lot of people seem to buy into it and firmly believe some books are better than others.

There’s a lot of YA that is absolutely terrible. There’s also a lot of adult fiction that is truly awful. Just like there’s genre fiction that is fantastic, beautifully written and amazing, along with literary fiction that is just not even worth opening the front cover.

Same goes for fan-produced works inspired by others' intellectual properties, I'd wager.

[BrennaCeDria]

Kittnami wrote...
 When I talk about how much I like Fenris and all my mom has to say is 'but he's not real' it makes me feel better to know that there are other fangirls out there who feel the same way about him as I do 

I don't know whose it is, but there's a Tumblr where this girl is recording conversations (mostly texts) she has with her mom while her mom plays through DA:O. The posts are absolutely golden, especially when the mom was bragging that she 'hit that' with Zev.

[Luciferadi]

 Hi all.  I don't post much, but I've been following the discussion. I just blogged about entering this contest. It was a challenging experience for me in a lot of ways. I was afraid of the label "fan fiction" because there is so much awful fanfic out there, but this contest has attracted so many good writers, I've learned not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

(I also have a post about YA Lit in case anyone's interested!)

[Ion's Folly]

Raenemon wrote...

What do you think of gaming as an art-form? I'm guessing since most of you posted short stories that you feel there is a craft involved with game design that can inspire creative endeavors in other forms, such as fiction. What I am curious is whether you think there can be creative writing that derives from games could approach the quality of what is published in journals and anthologies and novels? In other words, can fanfiction, such as what was written for this competition, be described as encouraging ever surpass the form that inspired it? Even if that was true, would such 'derivative' fiction be take seriously in the 'real world' of publishing agencies and starred reviews?

Inspiration can come from anywhere - other books, movies, music - anything is fair game if it moves you to create. Which is fine. Art can transcend the form it was originally inspired from, or compliment it...or be nothing more than a big turd on the bottom of the IP's shoe. 
That being said, quality is subjective - there are plenty of fanfics I've read that are brilliant...and plenty of published books that suck. The difference (one hopes) is that traditional publications have editors and an art deparment and publicists and all the rest of it to help with the polishing.

The sticky part is if what you create is saleable. Fanfic generally isn't.  Publishers are looking for original works that they can sell - there are too many copywrite issues involved with derivative works. (And where would it stop, really? If writing fanfic for games is okay...does that mean I can start writing stuff for Harry Potter?)

Frankly, the slush piles are so deep with original writing, there's barely any time to look at it -  let alone unauthorized fanfic. (It would be an instant rejection.) 

If you're a licensed author for a particular fandom - Star Wars, Star Trek, WotC etc - that's a different animal. You might see that in form of a call for submission by a particular publisher, for example. Or if you're already established, you might submit via proposal, but in either case, there are channels that need to be followed, including signed contracts. 

Starred reviews? Like in Publisher's Weekly? Those books are usually sent to them by publicists (and it often costs $$) - the reviewers aren't out scouring for things. Self-pubbed/indie-pubbed books have a hard enough time getting reviewed by many of those publications - or even book bloggers - there's really little chance for a derivative work to be looked at.

Fanfic is fun, but it's still someone else's sandbox. If you're looking to get published, then you need to write something original. 

[Perivayne]

Jessica has twitted that there's no estimate of time for the judging, but that they're working on it as fast as they can.

Good Luck all!

[ColorMeSuprised]

Perivayne wrote...

Jessica has twitted that there's no estimate of time for the judging, but that they're working on it as fast as they can.

Good Luck all!

Thanks for letting us know!

[BrennaCeDria]

ColorMeSuprised wrote...

Perivayne wrote...

Jessica has twitted that there's no estimate of time for the judging, but that they're working on it as fast as they can.

Good Luck all!

Thanks for letting us know!

Gah, I meant to post a link to that tweet here earlier and completely forgot. >.<

[JoeLaTurkey]

*Wrings hands* Oh god...the PRESSURE

[CuriousArtemis]

Raenemon wrote...

What do you think of gaming as an art-form? I'm guessing since most of you posted short stories that you feel there is a craft involved with game design that can inspire creative endeavors in other forms, such as fiction. What I am curious is whether you think there can be creative writing that derives from games could approach the quality of what is published in journals and anthologies and novels? In other words, can fanfiction, such as what was written for this competition, be described as encouraging ever surpass the form that inspired it? Even if that was true, would such 'derivative' fiction be take seriously in the 'real world' of publishing agencies and starred reviews?

Of course fanfiction can be better than its source.  And of course "better" is subjective.

As far as writing fanfiction for profit, some have mentioned the Star Wars franchise and others.  Sometimes an author will either be approached by fans or will discovered fans and approach them about a book.  Two fans of Storm Constantine's WRAETHTHU series did this and managed to published a book with Constantine editing the final product.

wylla wrote...

Starred reviews? Like in Publisher's Weekly? Those books are usually sent to them by publicists (and it often costs $$) - the reviewers aren't out scouring for things. Self-pubbed/indie-pubbed books have a hard enough time getting reviewed by many of those publications - or even book bloggers - there's really little chance for a derivative work to be looked at. 

  

I write book reviews for Kirkus Indie.  Self-published authors can purchase a review from us for aroun 500 bucks I believe.  So the option is definitely out there for them.

wylla wrote...

Fanfic is fun, but it's still someone else's sandbox. If you're looking to get published, then you need to write something original. 

Agreed, unless you are answering a Call for Submissions from an established brand (like Star Wars or Star Trek).  

Fanfiction does, however, have many benefits and should not be denegrated simply because it is a derivative art form.  Fanfiction comes with a ready audience and can thus be great for writer confidence.  While the setting and characters are often readily available, writers still have to wrestle with things like plot and style.  So, in a sense, it can be good for exercising your skills.

Also, keep in mind that some writers ARE technically professional fanfic writers: take the writers who work for BioWare, for example.  They are given a milieu to work with and have to have their work constantly approved by a variety of people.  

[Raenemon]

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies to my original questions.

I think all art, one way or another, is derivative. Any author, of any genre, is always borrowing form and content, whether its James Joyce's taking from ancient Greek and Homer or Tolkien stealing from Scandinavian mythology and Beowulf. Inspiration comes in many forms. Because of technology, modern folk are exposed to narratives in multiple ways besides books or words. It's quite a shift in consciousness. For all the negative arguments against computers or technology, humans simply have more ways and mediums to absorb artforms.

And games, like books, movies, plays, should entertain on some basic level, but it takes an artist to elevate the material. Operas are a great example. They were the cause of some of the greatest lyrics and music of any language, yet the plot and characters of most classical operas were pretty flimsy things. It wasn't until the 20th century that operas were written where content and form became relevant, and the art finally realized its full potential.

[Corker]

^^ Verily, the focus on originality is a very modern thing. I do medieval studies on the side, and lots of the best authors were busy rehashing old tales in new clothes. Of course, many added new details or had a more lovely style or or or... but they were still dealing with The Matter of Britain or the Matter of France or Robin Hood or what have you.

Lancelot is totally Chretien de Troyes's OC in the Arthurian universe, and look how he turned out.

[Fortlowe]

So can we post our stories now?

[JoeLaTurkey]

^ You were free to do what you like with your story moment you submitted it

[CuriousArtemis]

Corker wrote...

Lancelot is totally Chretien de Troyes's OC in the Arthurian universe, and look how he turned out.

Ahahahahaha thank you for that!!  Now I finally can understand why I've hated Lancelot all these years.  He's a Gary Sue!  

[K.L.Bryan]

 Well, that's one less thing to worry about.   I was concerned when I submitted my entry with the wring email address (one not connected to my BSN), that I'd be disqualified, but I just got an inbox from Jessica saying that as long as my abstract is posted, it's not a problem.  Yay.  Not so worries now. 

[The Sarendoctrinator]

Perivayne wrote...

Jessica has twitted that there's no estimate of time for the judging, but that they're working on it as fast as they can.

Good Luck all!

Thanks, I was wondering about this.

K.L.Bryan wrote...

Well, that's one less thing to worry about.   I was concerned when I submitted my entry with the wring email address (one not connected to my BSN), that I'd be disqualified, but I just got an inbox from Jessica saying that as long as my abstract is posted, it's not a problem.  Yay.  Not so worries now. 

I wasn't worried, but I did use a different e-mail too, so it's nice to have confirmation.

[Aenne]

motomotogirl wrote...

Corker wrote...

Lancelot is totally Chretien de Troyes's OC in the Arthurian universe, and look how he turned out.

Ahahahahaha thank you for that!!  Now I finally can understand why I've hated Lancelot all these years.  He's a Gary Sue!  

Speaking of Gary Sues, let's also add Dante from the Divine Comedy.  He wrote a fictional story about himself, everyone he knew and his favorite thinker, Virgil, and they go on a grand adventure through hell and heaven.

Total Gary Sue. XD

[Russalka]

I noticed only now my entry had 2501 words. I was relieved, because my story really was that horrible.

Good luck to everyone else.

[My Name Does Not Matter]

Kind of nervous right now because I submitted mine twice since I forgot my BSN name the first time around. Not sure if I'll be disqualified or not, but fingers crossed!

Good luck to all of you awesome Dragon Age fans out there. x)

[TehVGG]

I think I died a little inside just now. I was re-reading my entry, and I noticed that I messed up a name and said Owain was dead instead of a random Tranquil. His name just popped into my head and I had completely forgotten that he lived.

Just think of a really bad curse word, I said them all.

[W.O.Poetry]

I don't have much faith in my story, but it seems like it'll stand out in the judging since I've found so few other attempts in the humoristic department.

Has there been any anouncements with info about the estimated time to select the top five?

By the way TehVGG: There could be another Owain. If the world is suposed to contain a decent amount of people then it's only logical that the names will be reused