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[Corker]

rickf7666 wrote...

I have two concerns about much of the other fan fiction I tend to see. I was wondering how the general community felt about these things.

The first is the tremendous amount of flowery descriptive metaphors that bury a story for me. I'm not really a fan of the language used in poetry. Maybe I'm a bit to literal minded.

The other thing is a first person narrative. I tend to get turned off by this approach. I'm not quite sure why. I have read some good first person stories, but I've read a lot more bad ones.

Any way, I was just wondering what everyone else thought of these things.

Her eyes of cerulean blue
Were quite unexpected a hue
At least the first time,
But then after nine
Repetitions, I thought the hue blew

I like a good metaphor; I like an unexpected adjective; I like interesting, vivid word painting.  Fantasy gives us miraculous landscapes and awe-inspiring sights to see, and we may as well stop to look at them.

I do not like big words for big words' sakes, or when rare words with very specific meanings are used, inappropriately, in place of more common synonyms with more general meanings.  It makes me suspect a thesarus was involved, in licentious and possibly illegal ways.

First person doesn't make or break for me.  I've read good stuff in first person and bad stuff, just like in third person.  If I get through the first few hundred words and I like what I'm seeing, I'll keep going, regardless of POV.

Modifié par Corker, 28 janvier 2012 - 09:08 .

[ColorMeSuprised]

rickf7666 wrote...
The other thing is a first person narrative. I tend to get turned off by this approach. I'm not quite sure why. I have read some good first person stories, but I've read a lot more bad ones.

I start with your second point.

I absolutely, beyond words, hate to read 1st person narrative! I just hate the limited point of view that inevitably comes with this kind of POV. And it's worse when I cannot stand the person behind that POV.

BUT I have no problem writing it myself, since I for once know everything that's going on behind the scenes.

Most of the time, I don't buy books as soon as I notice the 1st person narrative. I'm not as radical when it comes to fanfiction, though. At least not short One-Shots. Longer multiple chapter stories in 1st person are going to be as ignored as the books. There was only one book I bought and that was because I loved the author and thought the person from which point it was written was totally adorable.

rickf7666 wrote...
The first is the tremendous amount of
flowery descriptive metaphors that bury a story for me. I'm not really a
fan of the language used in poetry. Maybe I'm a bit to literal minded.

In my opinion to many "flowery description" make the flow of a story heavy and I don't like to read heavy flows. Most of the time there is even the problem that these metaphors don't really add up or sound too forced.

I prefer a lively flow.

Modifié par ColorMeSuprised, 28 janvier 2012 - 09:27 .

[wangxiuming]

I actually wrote my contest entry in first person. It's really up to your personal taste, I think. I think the strength of first person is that it allows you to get intimate with the protagonist quickly and easily. The downside is - as ColorMeSurprised says - limited viewpoint and if the reader doesn't like the protagonist, then you're kinda out of luck.

With regards to flowery language, again I think it's really up to the author to use it judiciously. Flower for the sake of fluff isn't my thing, but used in the right setting, I think it can add a great deal of emotional "oomph" to a story.

[ColorMeSuprised]

Of course, it's always up to a person's taste. It was just my opinion. I didn't mean to imply, that everybody should hate 1st person. I'm sorry, if it sounded like that.

And as I said, I have no problem writing it myself...

[CuriousArtemis]

rickf7666 wrote...

I have two concerns about much of the other fan fiction I tend to see. I was wondering how the general community felt about these things.

The first is the tremendous amount of flowery descriptive metaphors that bury a story for me. I'm not really a fan of the language used in poetry. Maybe I'm a bit to literal minded.

The other thing is a first person narrative. I tend to get turned off by this approach. I'm not quite sure why. I have read some good first person stories, but I've read a lot more bad ones.

Any way, I was just wondering what everyone else thought of these things.

Neither of the two gripes you mentioned have anything specifically to do with fanfiction.  The first ("flowery language," and by that I believe you mean "overwrought language") crops up frequently in the works of amateur writers, whether fanfic or original fiction writers.

The second is just personal taste.  I have read some good first person narratives, too (some favorites: The Princess Diaries, Book of a Thousand Days, The Claidi Journals).  I also like to write in first person (sometimes).  Poorly written first person is just as painful to read as poorly written third person.

To be honest, I don't read a lot of fanfiction or original fiction posted online because a lot of it just isn't good.  But some of it truly is.  

[Dasque]

I actually like flowery description, if it's used sparingly in passages that need the additional impact to create a powerful visual. If it's there for the sake of being there, it tends to slow down the entire narrative and appear as if the author was just trying too hard.

(Not that I can talk--the more I read my contest entry, the more I'm discovering that it's much more flowery than my writing usually is. I think I obsessed over it too long. I probably should have walked away sooner. But then, I may have just decided that because I'm still obsessing over the thing, too. It's a vicious, vicious cycle.)

As for the first person narrative, I'll still give the story a try, but it's not my preferance. Not because of the limited POV, but because a lot of writers have trouble sticking to that. Their characters are suddenly impossibly insightful when it comes to the thoughts and feelings of the surrounding cast. Nothing can rip me out of a story faster than a psychic narrator. (Unless they really are supposed to be psychic, I suppose. Never read that story, though. Could be interesting.)

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

rickf7666 wrote...

Thanks SoLD for including my FF in your list. I was wondering if only posting my stories on my Deviant Art account is sufficient? I don't get a lot of comments for my fanfic. The most popular thing so far that I've done seems to be the Mass Effect Rainmeter skins that I did. Should I create an account on fanfiction.net? Would I get more feedback on my stories? Right now I get my sister and a friend read them and for the most part the only feedback I get is a general, "Yeah I liked it." I really appreciate that they read my stuff but I'm not sure if I'm improving at all.

I agree with what ColorMeSuprised said.

FanFiction.Net will have a greater reader pool than BSN, but a lot of people on FF.Net hunt for stories by way of looking up which ones include their favourite characters. This tends to mean that, unless you've been around long enough to have gathered a following, stories with all original characters will drop off the radar. On the other hand, I've personally found that FF.Net gets more readers than DevArt does, maybe because the former is dedicated to stories.

You're never guaranteed reviews for anything though. XD I think people are particularly wary about giving criticism unless specifically requested (I think DevArt has an option for this? paying members only?). There've been a number of cases on FF.Net, at least, where the author's fans dogpiled anyone who said they didn't like something in a story.

rickf7666 wrote...

I have two concerns about much of the other fan fiction I tend to see. I was wondering how the general community felt about these things.

The first is the tremendous amount of flowery descriptive metaphors that bury a story for me. I'm not really a fan of the language used in poetry. Maybe I'm a bit to literal minded.

The other thing is a first person narrative. I tend to get turned off by this approach. I'm not quite sure why. I have read some good first person stories, but I've read a lot more bad ones.

Any way, I was just wondering what everyone else thought of these things.

As others have alread said, whom I agree with (I'm in an agreeing mood today!), that's hardly limited to fanfiction. There are published works that do it too, and they probably have lots of people who like how it was done.

It's possible bad first person sticks out more because FP itself isn't as common as TP. The Power of One, The Tripods Trilogy and The Hunger Games are some (published) books in FP I've read, which I think did the perspective very well. There's an intensity and immediacy in first person that's harder to emulate with third, and if the writer is skilled and the reader can get into the character, it can be very compelling.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

tklivory wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

A reminder to people that if you want your entry listed on this list on BSN, just follow the instructions there.

I know things are getting a little lost on this thread.

Oh, SoLD, can I make a request (here, since I can't post in the other thread, *sigh*).  Would you be able to update my link to point to my FF.net site rather than the BSN blogs?  Pretty please with pancakes and lemon sugar on top? :innocent:
Someone made a good point about readability of the BSN blogs in terms of typography, &c.  If you want to add the link rather than replace, that would work, too.

This is the FF.net link.  And if you don't get a chance to do it, that's okay too, just thought I'd like to post the more legible version!

Is FF.Net more legible? *curious* I hadn't thought about it beyond FF's white background being hard on the eyes. XD

Anyway, changed the link for you and updated the thread. 56 entries!

*shakes more lurkers out of the woodwork*

[Scrimgeour10]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

It's possible bad first person sticks out more because FP itself isn't as common as TP. The Power of One, The Tripods Trilogy and The Hunger Games are some (published) books in FP I've read, which I think did the perspective very well. There's an intensity and immediacy in first person that's harder to emulate with third, and if the writer is skilled and the reader can get into the character, it can be very compelling.

The Hunger Games was one that I thought of immediately too - first person perspective AND present tense, both of which I'm often wary about when choosing something to read, whether it be fanfiction or original work. But I actually really enjoyed how it worked, which surprised me. 

I used to write in first person quite a lot, but rarely do so now. I also tend not to read anything that's first-person (in terms of fanfiction) unless it really grabs me in the first chapter. I think while it's easier to get away with in original fiction, fanfic beccomes trickier because not only do you have to keep their actions believeable, but every single thought has to be in-character too. I'm sure there are times when it's pulled off well, but most of the time I feel it distracts me from the story.

[ColorMeSuprised]

Scrimgeour10 wrote...
The Hunger Games was one that I thought of immediately too - first person perspective AND present tense, both of which I'm often wary about when choosing something to read, whether it be fanfiction or original work. But I actually really enjoyed how it worked, which surprised me.

I haven't read HG because of exactly these two reasons. It's not easy to pull of present tense. Even a friend, who has the same aversion as I do, said that they are really, really good.

You make me consider reading it too...

[Scrimgeour10]

ColorMeSuprised wrote...

I haven't read HG because of exactly these two reasons. It's not easy to pull of present tense. Even a friend, who has the same aversion as I do, said that they are really, really good.

You make me consider reading it too...

Yep I'm exactly the same, and when I first started reading I was thinking 'oh no, this will be a headache,' but as I got into them I stopped even realising it was in the present tense, which I think is the best sign of it being used well. 

It's also slightly ironic that I prefer to read past tense, because I tend to write quite a lot in present. Strange...

[The Sarendoctrinator]

rickf7666 wrote...

I have two concerns about much of the other fan fiction I tend to see. I was wondering how the general community felt about these things.

The first is the tremendous amount of flowery descriptive metaphors that bury a story for me. I'm not really a fan of the language used in poetry. Maybe I'm a bit to literal minded.

The other thing is a first person narrative. I tend to get turned off by this approach. I'm not quite sure why. I have read some good first person stories, but I've read a lot more bad ones.

Any way, I was just wondering what everyone else thought of these things.

I don't care for extensive, "flowery" descriptions and metaphors in most stories. I'm sure there are a lot of people who can do it well, but I remember reading some books where I was just incredibly bored because of how long it took the author to describe a sunset. When I describe a sunset, it's more like two sentences - not half a page. I probably put the most description into battle scenes (because I really want the reader to be able to picture the characters' every move without any confusion) and emotion.

I don't use the "flowery" type of language to describe characters, and it would be inappropriate if I did. If I use Kane, the main character of my short story, as an example... there is nothing "flowery" about him, and if I said that there was, I can just imagine him looking at me in horror.

The first-person POV, it's not my preference, but I've seen it done well. Like others have said, it doesn't make or break the story for me. The way it's handled is most important. The one thing that can really bother me about a story is consistent bad grammar, and that can happen no matter which POV I'm reading.

Dasque wrote...

As for the first person narrative, I'll still give the story a try, but it's not my preferance. Not because of the limited POV, but because a lot of writers have trouble sticking to that. Their characters are suddenly impossibly insightful when it comes to the thoughts and feelings of the surrounding cast. Nothing can rip me out of a story faster than a psychic narrator. (Unless they really are supposed to be psychic, I suppose. Never read that story, though. Could be interesting.)

I've done that before, the psychic narrator. In a creative writing class I was taking, we had an assignment to write using different points of view, and two that were mentioned were first-person and third-person omniscient. I decided to combine them and make first-person omniscient, a story told from a psychic's point of view. Poor guy knew what everyone was thinking about him.

[ArkadyRose]

AO3 is also a good place to post FF; I generally post mine to FFN (because it takes straight uploads of Open Office .odt files), AO3, deviantART and LJ in that order. AO3 is also good in that you can list different stories as all being parts of a series, so people can read the whole thing in order (e.g. all 5 parts of my Apostate Chronicles series can be found at this link. The other trick is to join some of the DA communities on different sites - there are several DA fic communities on LJ, for example, likewise on DA.

It can take a while to build up a following on any one site, but often if people like your work on one site they'll come looking for it on others too.

[Momiji.mii]

I alternate first person limited and third person limited depending on what I write. Sometimes first person limited is perfect, and it's a very engaging style to use because it lets me really slip into the skin of my character and explore their reasoning, thoughts and motivations, but I have to agree that it's a format that can go so very wrong if the writer is not careful. I used it for my DA fanfic and if I decide to post it, I hope it won't discourage anyone from reading it.

[ColorMeSuprised]

The Sarendoctrinator wrote...
I don't care for extensive, "flowery" descriptions and metaphors in most stories. I'm sure there are a lot of people who can do it well, but I remember reading some books where I was just incredibly bored because of how long it took the author to describe a sunset.

Have you ever read Tschingis Aitmatow "Dshamilja". That's the epitome of longwinded boredom. I felt like he was describing a blade of grass over three pages! It nearly killed me! Or Simplicius Simplicissimus by Hans Jakob Christoffel von Grimmelshausen? Urgh. One sentence was like over a page and he was explaining what the landscape looked like.

Scrimgeour10 wrote...
Yep
I'm exactly the same, and when I first started reading I was thinking
'oh no, this will be a headache,' but as I got into them I stopped even
realising it was in the present tense, which I think is the best sign of
it being used well. 

It's also slightly ironic that I prefer to read past tense, because I tend to write quite a lot in present. Strange...

I trust your judgement more than my friends. She is in such a tumblr hype that everything someone posted there has to be bloody brilliant. Guess I will risk a look... or two.

Modifié par ColorMeSuprised, 28 janvier 2012 - 11:27 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

ColorMeSuprised wrote...

I haven't read HG because of exactly these two reasons. It's not easy to pull of present tense. Even a friend, who has the same aversion as I do, said that they are really, really good.

You make me consider reading it too...

It's a good read I was turning pages until 2 in the morning, then picking it up again when I woke. I've only done the first book, but I enjoyed it enough I'm going to buy the rest of the trilogy.

[The Sarendoctrinator]

ColorMeSuprised wrote...

The Sarendoctrinator wrote...
I don't care for extensive, "flowery" descriptions and metaphors in most stories. I'm sure there are a lot of people who can do it well, but I remember reading some books where I was just incredibly bored because of how long it took the author to describe a sunset.

Have you ever read Tschingis Aitmatow "Dshamilja". That's the epitome of longwinded boredom. I felt like he was describing a blade of grass over three pages! It nearly killed me! Or Simplicius Simplicissimus by Hans Jakob Christoffel von Grimmelshausen? Urgh. One sentence was like over a page and he was explaining what the landscape looked like.

I haven't read them... and it sounds like I should be glad that I didn't. I don't think my attention span could hold on for three pages describing a blade of grass! xD

[Thargorichiban]

motomotogirl wrote...

rickf7666 wrote...

I have two concerns about much of the other fan fiction I tend to see. I was wondering how the general community felt about these things.

The first is the tremendous amount of flowery descriptive metaphors that bury a story for me. I'm not really a fan of the language used in poetry. Maybe I'm a bit to literal minded.

The other thing is a first person narrative. I tend to get turned off by this approach. I'm not quite sure why. I have read some good first person stories, but I've read a lot more bad ones.

Any way, I was just wondering what everyone else thought of these things.

Neither of the two gripes you mentioned have anything specifically to do with fanfiction.  The first ("flowery language," and by that I believe you mean "overwrought language") crops up frequently in the works of amateur writers, whether fanfic or original fiction writers.

The second is just personal taste.  I have read some good first person narratives, too (some favorites: The Princess Diaries, Book of a Thousand Days, The Claidi Journals).  I also like to write in first person (sometimes).  Poorly written first person is just as painful to read as poorly written third person.

To be honest, I don't read a lot of fanfiction or original fiction posted online because a lot of it just isn't good.  But some of it truly is.  

I agree that point of view is usually due to personal tastes. Usually I prefer third person omniscient myself, but for this contest I veered towards first person due to the actual story.

Thanks for the review of my entry. Glad it was a little depressing, it was meant to be

I've always thought that if any of my characters ever met me they probably would hang me. I'm not a very merciful god

[CuriousArtemis]

DG just tweeted that he and the other writers have narrowed the entries down to 20

[ColorMeSuprised]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

It's a good read I was turning pages until 2 in the morning, then picking it up again when I woke. I've only done the first book, but I enjoyed it enough I'm going to buy the rest of the trilogy.

Well, I just bought all three box on amazon for about 20€. Considering that sometimes one book costs about that much I guess it's a good deal. I just hope it's not some "Royal Game"-copy. The synopsis does sound a lot like that, to be honest. And if I don't like them I will just give them to my friend. Compensation for forgetting her birthday.

The Sarendoctrinator wrote...

I
haven't read them... and it sounds like I should be glad that I didn't.
I don't think my attention span could hold on for three pages
describing a blade of grass! xD

It's consider classic literatur! You absolutely have to read them! And you will understand just why I hate the overuse of flowery methapors...

No, don't read them. It's bad that I did it out of my free will. It took me three months to read the bible. Another three to read the coran. I needed about as much for these two books, which, together, are not even half of the first two...

[ColorMeSuprised]

motomotogirl wrote...

DG just tweeted that he and the other writers have narrowed the entries down to 20

Thanks for letting us know!

[Nenalata]

motomotogirl wrote...

DG just tweeted that he and the other writers have narrowed the entries down to 20

I swear, without you people, I would find this stuff out twelve hours later. 

[Thargorichiban]

Nenalata wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

DG just tweeted that he and the other writers have narrowed the entries down to 20

I swear, without you people, I would find this stuff out twelve hours later. 

Awesome! I'd be interested in hearing who the top 10 are.

[Maria13]

Since they've whittled it down to 20 I would suggest the top 20 should be named... After all that is one in five...

Modifié par Maria13, 29 janvier 2012 - 12:02 .

[Nenalata]

Maria13 wrote...

Since they've whittled it down to 20 I would suggest the top 20 should be named... After all that is one in five...

Yeah, someone asked him if the list could be posted. Basically, it's up to Jessica and Chris. /hopes/