94 réponses à ce sujet

[Fast Jimmy]

Plaintiff wrote...
Maybe one day I'll have the urge to strip my character down to his smallclothes and slather him in baby oil. And when that day comes, I'm going to pick up the game that allows me to do that.

Wait... are the Kardashian's coming out with a video game then?





And yes, practicallity should not be the number one concern. But considering this thread (and its embedded article) is advocating said practicality, its what I was alluding to.

I would like more character specific armors, if not only for cosmetic choice purposes, but also for multiple builds. If I didn't want to use Merril as a Blood Mage, some of the perks from her armor upgrades are totally worthless. If she had, say, four outfit options for each of the four areas of armor (sixteen options total) that could be mixed and matched for desired effect, but also possibly offer set bonuses if combined, that would be pretty sweet.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 21 décembre 2011 - 04:12 .

[devSin]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Therefore, women in fantasy should wear more clothing because my delicate male ego wants only virginal Christmas presents.

Actually, wouldn't it be even better if they were in a box?

Next game, the woman model should just be a cube. Maybe paper it in floral patterns or something, so you know it's a girl.

[Eddo36]

It's not all about verisimilitude, but also about not over-sexualizing females in the game. Females should be respected as well.

Modifié par Eddo36, 21 décembre 2011 - 05:29 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Stanley Woo wrote...

That's a great article. I'm glad that most of the BioWare stuff was stuff the author found as "good" examples of female armour, while only one was used as a "bad" example. Oh, Aribeth...

And female Dalish armour in DA: Origins (basically a leather bra -- left the midriff exposed).

And Tallis's leather armour was as ineffective from the breastbone up as Aribeth's was.

But otherwise, as a female gamer, I've greatly appreciated Bioware's approach to armour. I can't stand the "less armour is more protection" fantasy trope.

[Zaxares]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...
I can't stand the "less armour is more protection" fantasy trope.

Same! While I appreciate beautiful and sexy women as much as the next guy, there's a time and place for revealing clothing. And the battlefield is NOT it.

[esper]

I agree with Plantiff...
Isabella relys on not getting hit, that is the main concept of her fighting style and it macthes with her pesonality. She neve came across as a person who thinks ahead or practical and she properly lost all the light armour she had when her ship sunk and we all know that she can't save her coin to save her own life... Plus she likes to look sexy which is properly the most important point, the thing she wears fits Isabela

Now if Aveline had worn it, I would have complained about it, but she is covered and Merril doesn't wear less than any other mage and Hawke is also dressed all right, at least the armour my Hawke wears.

[TEWR]

Plaintiff wrote...


Isabela's a pirate. Combat isn't her primary concern, being able to move freely on a ship is.

Actually, both are her primary concerns -- or at least should be -- especially given that Castillon was out for her blood.

Her typical battleground is a tavern, and when she does fight, her style favours mobility and speed over strength or defense.

I wouldn't say that's her typical battleground. She's had two instances where she's fought in a tavern, but she's also fought on her ship and boarded ships before, on the beach, and other places.

But you're right in that she favors quickness, wit, and mobility over strength. Defense however is pretty much part of what being a Duelist was about.

Her clothes might not make sense if she was a soldier or a mercenary, but she's not. She's a sailor and a thief. If it weren't for Hawke, she'd likely be fleeing from armed conflict most of the time. Why do we assume Isabela is 'practical', anyway? It seems to me that she favours showmanship above other concerns.

A good point.

though I've often said that her armor upgrades should've altered her appearance. The Rigid Boning, Supportive Corselet, Lambswool Insoles, and the Boiled Leather Plate would've been nice to see actually applied to her look and not just her stats.

Though I have seen her romanced outfit. But still, it would've been nice to see the armor upgrades applied when they were found/bought

Personally, I don't really care what she looks like in terms of armor. Her current appearance or a more dressed up one isn't something on my priorities list of things I'd like to see changed regarding DA.

I'm not against Isabela covering up more, I really couldn't care less. I won't argue that she's intended to be sexy, but I'll say that it makes sense for character, if not necessarily for how she chooses to spend her free time. If we're going to nitpick about her, then other characters deserve at least an equal amount of scrutiny. They may show less skin, but Varric, Merril, Anders and Carver (at least in Act 1) are all dressed in a similarly 'impractical' fashion.

Varric's chest hair deflects everything.

But, as I said before I think this wouldn't be much of an issue had the armor upgrades altered the appearance a bit.

[whykikyouwhy]

I'm of the mindset that armor, in general, should strike a balance - it should fit the character in the story, and it should look somewhat like it can do what it is intended to do. Isabela's attire is less armor and more a compiled outfit that fits her fighting style (as Plaintiff has pointed out) but also who she is as a character. It wouldn't make sense for her to be in a guardsman uniform, for example (just as Aveline in less than a guardsman uniform would not correlate with who she is, as esper has mentioned). So too, in a fantasy world where magic exists, there is always room for any article of clothing or equipment to be enchanted or constructed of material that provides some sort of protective bonus, is resistant to certain elements or attacks, etc.

How "realistic" armor is or should be, in a fantasy game, becomes one of those sticky points about just how much realism is injected into the game world, and where those lines of demarcation are.

Regarding the article of the original topic - I read it last week and enjoyed it immensely. I thought it made a lot of valid points. And I do have to agree that Bioware has done well to find that nice little pocket of realism (amidst all of the magic and dragons and griffons-yet-to-be-seen) for how their warriors and such are prepared for battle.

[TEWR]

griffons-yet-to-be-seen

An uncharted island. This is where they live in a wild state.

EDIT # 2: never mind, Shadow of Light Dragon just told me about something I didn't know before. People call some coats Dusters. I never knew that. 

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 21 décembre 2011 - 11:49 .

[whykikyouwhy]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

griffons-yet-to-be-seen

An uncharted island. This is where they live in a wild state.

Well, should the next DLC include a three-hour tour...

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

EDIT: But I agree with you. If one were to look at Varric's armor name, it's called Tailored Leather Duster. If one looks back at DAO, there was a leather armor set called the Duster Leather Armor, which was described as being assembled from various odds and ends IIRC.

So Varric's just wearing a more stylish version of something that was described to be pretty darn tough in Origins.

Uh, no. Duster Leather Armour was so named because it was something dwarven dusters wear.

Varric's armour is an actual duster, that is a coat designed to keep dust and rain off the wearer.

The two articles of clothing have no relation to each other, aside from containing the word 'duster'.

[TEWR]

Really?

Huh, I've never heard of any coat being called a duster. I stand corrected.

I kinda feel like a fool though

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 21 décembre 2011 - 11:51 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

It's not something you should see in a medieval setting, if it makes you feel better. I guess DA gets away with it because it's fantasy...

[Fast Jimmy]

Well, to be fair, a giant mechanized crossbow isn't something we usually see in fantasy, either. Unless that fantasy is steam-punk, that is.

So Varric's just a special guy, I guess.

Whykikyouwhy says...
It wouldn't make sense for her to be in a guardsman uniform, for example (just as Aveline in less than a guardsman uniform would not correlate with who she is, as esper has mentioned).

To be fair, it wouldn't make sense for ANY rogue to wear a guard's uniform, ever. But a flexible leather cuirass that allows for flexible fighting, but is light and loose enough to wear on a ship AND reveal skin as fan service? I don't understand why that could not have worked.

And as for mages wearing robes... well, that's just a big gaping hole in all of RPG combat, isn't it?

To be fair, anytime I have a mage, they are going to be using Stoneskin at all times. Not just for realistic, practical reasons but because the way I structure most of my mage setups is to go for as many buffs as possible. So those swords and arrows could have gone right through my mages and only encountered rock hard skin.

Going back to Varric, it seems like his duster jacket is at least composed of a thicker material than cotton. I would wager it is some type of treated, thin heavy leather, as is common for dusters. So while hardly chain mail, it is still leather armor protection, the only thing I am advocating for Isabella.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Well, to be fair, a giant mechanized crossbow isn't something we usually see in fantasy, either. Unless that fantasy is steam-punk, that is.

So Varric's just a special guy, I guess.

There's a bit of a difference between giving a character an improbable-looking weapon (fantasy is rife with this) and dressing him in something inappropriate for the period. Which...fantasy is also rife with.

Never mind. XD My intent was to clarify what a duster is, not seriously debate whether it belongs in Dragon Age any more than shiny steel D-cups do. I'd take the duster over the metal bra any day.

[Fast Jimmy]

Varric in a metal bra?


Now things are getting kinky, yes?

[TEWR]

I think we're getting closer to discovering how Bianca got her name.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Hahaha

[whykikyouwhy]

@Fast Jimmy - I look at Isabela's attire as part of her overall character design, specifically her role as the book judged by the cover. That's my take away from my gaming experience with her, from doing her quests, seeing her whole story arc. Could that twist have been conveyed if she were in light leather armor? Maybe. Maybe not. I doubt it would have made the same impact - I mean, here you have a female character that is, in many ways, the antithesis of who/what female characters often are in video games. The gut reaction from most people with regard to her is based on her appearance. And I have heard and read accounts from numerous players who didn't care from her from the get-go (mostly due to that initial reaction) and who were pleasantly surprised over her depth as the game progressed.

So yeah, maybe a leather cuirass would have made more "sense", seemed more realistic, but that's just not the route that was taken with her default appearance. And I'm ok with that personally because of the range of her character. The substance is there beneath the appearance. Plus, it's not a metal bikini. (I draw the line at those, I'm afraid. They're just too cold.)

And while Varric may have a thick leather jacket, he does have a good portion of his chest exposed. Shameless chest hair displaying hussy that he is. (in other words, he has a large target of exposed skin)

But...there are plenty of other threads that tout praise or complaints regarding armor and attire, practicality and realism, etc and so forth. There's plenty of love gained and lost for characters for a variety of reasons and at varying degrees. I don't want to veer off too much from the original topic (the insight in the article) to delve down those already existing roads.

[N7 Spectre525]

Eddo36 wrote...

It's not all about verisimilitude, but also about not over-sexualizing females in the game. Females should be respected as well.

And one of if not the most famous fantasy icon, Conan sports nothing but a fur loincloth and no one bats an eye. 

[Wulfram]

Isabela's outfit is OK by me because it's not armour, and not pretending to be. Though I'd prefer it if the whole relying on not being hit was reflected in the stats as higher defence, rather than just giving everyone more or less the same armour stat anyway.

[Eddo36]

N7 Spectre525 wrote...

Eddo36 wrote...

It's not all about verisimilitude, but also about not over-sexualizing females in the game. Females should be respected as well.

And one of if not the most famous fantasy icon, Conan sports nothing but a fur loincloth and no one bats an eye. 

If you haven't been living in a cave, it is socially not the same for males and females. If a male sleeps with a lot of females, people would think much much less of it than if a female sleeps with a lot of males.

[SphereofSilence]

There are characters in Dragon Age as well as ME where their could be considered bad by the author's standards.

Flemeth - Arms and lower legs protected with armor, but body's from neck to thigh weakly protected with some kind of 'cloth armor'. Though you could argue that she don't need it, it's all for the 'Sauron Effect'

Champion Mage Armor - Almost same with Flemeth, left arm's totally unprotected.

Champion Warrior Armor - good protection, but too much spikes for 'Sauron Effect'

Qunari Soldier, Qunari Commander and Qunari Arishok - Mainly bare bodies supposed to show their muscle kind of like Conan or barbarian I assume. The shoulder pads are mainly for indication of rank. But you'd think that this technologically advanced people who conquered half of Thedas before would have some kind of full military armor.

Tallis - bare chest and upper arms. Her fighting style could be more acrobatic like Isabela, so...what's the point of having armor in the first place?

Fenris - unprotected upper arm, waist and thigh. Upper arm, and neck has lyrium burned into skin so it's understandable if he needs it for mid-combat usage.

Some female characters' armor's pretty good: Cassandra, Aveline city guard armor, and Merril upgraded armor

Mass Effect:

Grunt - unprotected upper arm

A lot of characters in ME doesn't have armor, but they may not need it since they have shields.

Modifié par SphereofSilence, 21 décembre 2011 - 03:50 .

[Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut]

I think that Dragon Age, as a franchise, suffers a lot more from the unnecessary spikes issue than the boob-plate issue. But in general, people don't draw on historical armor sources enough. I think that in almost all cases, you can pretty reliably say that the aesthetic design on historical armor is a lot better than video game armor, anyway.

[RenaissanceDweeb]

Honestly most of the armor for females hasn't been that absurd in Dragon Age that I've seen apart from a few instances of "Orly?" such as the female version of the Dalish armor. You'd think people who've spent their entire existence being persecuted for what they are would understand the necessity of not keeping one's midriff and their upper chest and neck exposed. Then there's also Mages and robes and the argument that career apostates most especially wouldn't be caught dead in them or with a staff because it would be a glowing neon sign. For a Circle Mage the robes would still be a hindrance but the conceit with that is they're not really called upon for battles; the Blight was a special case.