155 réponses à ce sujet

[Laser Beam]

I have a feeling BioWare is interested in the amount of money Bethesda made then the actual gameplay. 'Tis sad. Will take A LOT to get me back into this series after DA2....

[Sylvius the Mad]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Paper thin main quest plot -- should not be a problem for BeeDubs.  Skyrim's MQ was unforgivably boring.

Skyrim's MQ is well enogh integrated into the game as a whole that it never stands out as something to be examined unless you're metagaming based on journal classifications.  that is absolutely something BioWare should do again (they haven't done it since the original Baldur's Gate, and I'd like to see it return - Skyrim does it well).

UI designed by someone who had only hate in their heart

I imagine it's a pretty good UI for the console, but I'll agree on PC the Skyrim UI is a disaster.  But on PC it can also be modded.  There's a very good UI mod available at Skyrim Nexus.

Railroad quests -- Too many of the Daedric quests had one option and only option only.

The main option in most of the quests is whether to do them.  That's an important option, and one that's too often  missing in modern games.  Try to avoid completing a quest you've already started in Fable, for example.

Most conversations in the game were also terribly dry and thin.

I really like Skyrim's conversations.  They allow tremendous freedom of character development for the player character.

Inventory overload -- Continually the worst part of TES games.  Find another way to create gold for the characters, plox.

I don't understand the complaint.  Yes, there's far more loot in the world than you could possibly carry, but there's also no need to carry it all.  By the time I'm level 15 in Skyrim I'm taking only gold and arrows from fallen opponents and leaving their weapons and armour behind.

And Skyrim's inventory UI, in particular, works about as well as any list interface inventory I've ever seen.

Garbage quests -- enough with the tropey quests.  I want fewer quests in DA3, if it means the chains are longer.  Every quest should be part of a story.  Let noobs fetch their own wood.

If you want to let people fetch their own wood, then don't accept those quests.  Or just don't do them.  That the quests are available, even if you don't do them, adds to the depth of the setting.  Garbage quests, as you call them, are absolutely vital.  We need garbage quests.  

No more attributes.  The winniest aspect of character creation to come to the TES mechanics.  I did not miss another pointless stat in Skyrim and I won't miss it in DA3.  More perks, more powers, more ability to do things in the world.  Less "ooo! my numers!  Look look look at my numbers!"  Continue to move beyond the boring old cliche mechanics.  DA2 started it, Skyrim continues it, now just keep pushing it!

I completely disagree.  Losing the attributes is one of Skyrim's biggest mistakes, and DA2's handling of stats (making them entirely subservient to class structures) was an abomination.

The attributes should inform the quality of everything your character does in the world.  What we need to lose are classes, not attributes.

I'm picturing enchanting and alchemy from Skyrim being merged with the resource acquisition from DA2 and I'm all excited.  After all, enchanting and alchemy in Skyrim rely on MMO style resource grinding.  Save us all the time and hassle by making the resources into nodes so I don't have to skip through fields plucking butterflies out of the air and instead can focus on noble goals like making Penetrator bats out of Dragon genitals.

Again, I completely disagree.  The DA2 resource node system reduced crafting to shopping.  Needing to carry the materials is important.  Needing to sacrifice other things in order to carry the materials is important.

Most times, loot was obvious.  I could look at a table and see I wanted the healing potion and one of the two magika potions standing there, but I didn't need the stamina potion.  I didn't have to open six boxes to figure that out.  I could just look.  That's win.  Granted, there are a million barrels with a dead fly in each one, but I always knew the good stuff was in chests and the crap containers I could ignore without ever getting screwed.

Why should the world accommodate your laziness?

[Herr Uhl]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Paper thin main quest plot -- should not be a problem for BeeDubs.  Skyrim's MQ was unforgivably boring.

Skyrim's MQ is well enogh integrated into the game as a whole that it never stands out as something to be examined unless you're metagaming based on journal classifications.  that is absolutely something BioWare should do again (they haven't done it since the original Baldur's Gate, and I'd like to see it return - Skyrim does it well).

I'd disagree that either Baldurs Gate or Skyrim has main quests that never stand out as something to be examined.

I can see how not having the hub structure would be nice though. (go to place X to achieve main quest objective Y and then get sidequest Z to complete during that time).

[Dubya75]

BillsVengenace wrote...

Does this mean the game will have 10,000 Fetch and Deliver quests?

I'd rather they look at DA:O more closely and not rip off other studios. Do your own thing. That you were great at doing.

People draw inspiration from others. It's normal. It's human nature. All games have some inspiration drawn from elsewhere, be it other games, movies, or whatever.
It would be wise for Bioware to draw inspiration and even borrow some ideas from a game that is ridiculously successful and has shipped 10 million copies in it's first month, don't you think?
I don't think the folks at Bioware are that arrogant to dismiss other successful games in the way you suggest.

Modifié par Dubya75, 21 décembre 2011 - 11:36 .

[Ponendus]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

If you want to let people fetch their own wood, then don't accept those quests.  Or just don't do them.  That the quests are available, even if you don't do them, adds to the depth of the setting.  Garbage quests, as you call them, are absolutely vital.  We need garbage quests.  

What a good point. Thanks Sylvius, I never thought to look at it that way. I confess I got frustrated with 'garbage quests' but that makes a lot more sense now.

[Brockololly]

Dubya75 wrote...
I don't think the folks at Bioware are that arrogant to dismiss other successful games in the way you suggest.

Then maybe they should take a closer look at Origins, considering its their best selling game to date?

[csfteeeer]

Ironically Enough, The Grey Wardens(the Website, obviously) wrote an Article about what DA needs to learn from Skyrim.

Agree with pretty much everything minus Marriage, since that goes against the nature of some characters.

[Fast Jimmy]

csfteeeer wrote...

Ironically Enough, The Grey Wardens(the Website, obviously) wrote an Article about what DA needs to learn from Skyrim.

Agree with pretty much everything minus Marriage, since that goes against the nature of some characters.

But it goes in the total of nature of others... so what's your point? All romances in Bioware games have been pretty optional. If you don't want to get married, I'd say more power to you. But having it on the table is pretty cool.

I think it was stupid that DAO had romances that can result in marriage (to Allistair if you play your cards right) but a relationship that takes place over seven years you don't even have sex for the longest time, let alone actually get married.

Do I think 25% of all the NPCs should be marriage candidates like in Skyrim? No.  But I don't see why a long term game can't allow you to get married, if that's in line with the NPC you are romancing and if you want to (as in, its not mandatory).

But, as with so many discussions on these boards, this is a feature I could honestly give a hill of beans about. The best part of Skyrim for me was the leveling. TES has alwasy done leveling based on how you use your skills, but the addition of perks with every level raise is brilliant. Something done along these lines of a specialized perk every level could lead to a whole new level of customization for gameplay, it would be ridiculous.

[Tommy6860]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Paper thin main quest plot -- should not be a problem for BeeDubs.  Skyrim's MQ was unforgivably boring.

Skyrim's MQ is well enogh integrated into the game as a whole that it never stands out as something to be examined unless you're metagaming based on journal classifications.  that is absolutely something BioWare should do again (they haven't done it since the original Baldur's Gate, and I'd like to see it return - Skyrim does it well).

Yes, it does, and much better than Oblivion ever did. I'd even say it may be better than Morrowind (not close to Daggerfall though). BG isn't the only Bioware game that did this well though. BG2 was great and Origins did very well at this.

The main option in most of the quests is whether to do them.  That's an important option, and one that's too often  missing in modern games.  Try to avoid completing a quest you've already started in Fable, for example.

That's really not much of an option, especially when role playing. Simply saying one has a choice can be done in just about any genre of gaming. It's a matter for me, that when I make a choice, there's player agency involved. Like its predecessor, it doesn't do well in this, but it is heads above Oblivion because it did expand back into allowing for this.. Oblvion left near zero ramifications to choices. Seriously though, I personally don't find much satisfaction from just being able to do, or not do a quest, because that is the only choice. What is important to me, is whether that quest has an effect on plots if I make a choice one way or the other to do and how it affect things when I do or don't do them.

I really like Skyrim's conversations.  They allow tremendous freedom of character development for the player character.

I agree with this, they made the conversations longer, detailed, more expository and involved many NPCs discussing history, lore and the various things pertinent to Skyrim as a whole,as also talking about themselves. Oblivion was so awful at that. Nice that the silent PC remained too, I felt back at home again after DA2.

Modifié par Tommy6860, 21 décembre 2011 - 01:48 .

[Plaintiff]

Marriage is not necessary in any relationship, fictional or otherwise, nor is it an "advancement" on its own terms. There are plenty of loveless marriages and plenty of loving couples who choose not to marry for their own reasons. It almost offends me that this twit attempts to present it as such, and then he crosses the line by saying that there's more development in having some random douche to cook for you than there is in characters that you have in-depth conversations and individual quests for.

In the real world, marriage comes with tangible benefits. In a videogame it's a banal superficiality, like most everything else this guy wants carried over from Skyrim. Getting married would add absolutely nothing to any of the romances with any of the characters in DA2 or Origins, which are actually fairly involved as-is. A marriage scene would just be fluff and the fact that people make mods for them proves nothing, except that some individuals have too much time on their hands.

And cunning is 'useless'? Did this guy play DA2 at all? "Let's ignore that it increases defense and critical hit damage hurrdurrdurr".

Modifié par Plaintiff, 21 décembre 2011 - 02:03 .

[NKKKK]

Sylvius laid it down like a boss.

[Rawgrim]

Sylvius nailed it, I agree.

[Wulfram]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

But it goes in the total of nature of others... so what's your point?

I can't see marriage would really fit with any of the DA2 romances.  Except maybe Merrill, and there are reasons for them not to choose to formalise things what with the whole elf/human thing.

[tanerb123]

well DA2 is a result of taking cues from Call of duty and now DA3 will take cues from Skyrim/ Pity that the only game you should take cues is the one you already did which is DA:O

[Lux]

They aren't going anywhere with the current engine. Long corridors with invisible barriers, nonreactive NPCs and static environments makes for a pretty boring setting. Even if they make DA3 more open-ended they're still missing the eye-candiness and unpredictability in world interaction that Skyrim provides.

There's also the over the top combat they've introduced. TW2 and Skyrim showed that a more realistic looking combat can be as spectacular and more immersive. After all, if they're into entertaining escapism, something more based in reality fools the mind better than the improbable acrobatics they've decided to go for.

I keep hearing from BW that their brand of RPG (party members you can take simultaneously and character interaction) together with day-night cycles, dynamic weather and unscripted encounters (as in Skyrim) would be too much for hardware resources, so they focus on what they do best. If that's the case, maybe their focus needs tweaking in order to add greater visual immersion.

[Aren19]

Speaking of news for DA3, I saw this "trailer for DA3". I wanted to ask, this can't be DA3 could it? No darkspawn, no mention of the Maker (The same person kept saying "gods"), people claiming that Morrigan's son is in the trailer (despite me saying that he could be no older than 10 now) and 2 new monsters (an elf like thing and a hybrid of a spider and snail). To me, it looks like Fable. What do you guys think?

[Drizzt ORierdan]

That is a cinematic from the Prologue of the Witcher 2, Aren19... Some fan of the Witcher would want Dragon Age 3 to resemble it or the other way around.,,, lol

[Plaintiff]

Aren19 wrote...

Speaking of news for DA3, I saw this "trailer for DA3". I wanted to ask, this can't be DA3 could it? No darkspawn, no mention of the Maker (The same person kept saying "gods"), people claiming that Morrigan's son is in the trailer (despite me saying that he could be no older than 10 now) and 2 new monsters (an elf like thing and a hybrid of a spider and snail). To me, it looks like Fable. What do you guys think?

Here's a hint: When it has characters from The Witcher in it, it probably has something to do with The Witcher.

The more you know...

[Aren19]

I've never played the Witcher before, so I wouldn't know. I'm not stupid though, but since it was a game I never played or even remember seeing I had to ask. Sorry for wasting time.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Slidell505 wrote...

And here I thought old Ray said RPGs were dying. Oops no, it was Greg.

They are.  TESV is the least Trope-RPG of the whole series so far... and it sold 10 million copies.  :lol:

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Skyrim's MQ is well enogh integrated into the game as a whole that it never stands out as something to be examined unless you're metagaming based on journal classifications.  that is absolutely something BioWare should do again (they haven't done it since the original Baldur's Gate, and I'd like to see it return - Skyrim does it well).

Who cares about intergration?  The MQ was still boring.  Fail. 

I don't understand the complaint.  Yes, there's far more loot in the world than you could possibly carry, but there's also no need to carry it all.  By the time I'm level 15 in Skyrim I'm taking only gold and arrows from fallen opponents and leaving their weapons and armour behind.

If loot beyond arrows and gold are, as you say, useless for 35 of the 50 levels in the game, it shouldn't be there at all.  The inventory tedium should be revamped.

If you want to let people fetch their own wood, then don't accept those quests.  Or just don't do them.  That the quests are available, even if you don't do them, adds to the depth of the setting.  Garbage quests, as you call them, are absolutely vital.  We need garbage quests.  

False depth.  Real depth comes from the story and the characters, not pretending to be a lumberjack.

I completely disagree.  Losing the attributes is one of Skyrim's biggest mistakes, and DA2's handling of stats (making them entirely subservient to class structures) was an abomination.

The attributes should inform the quality of everything your character does in the world.  What we need to lose are classes, not attributes.

And yet, the less trope RPG the TES games get... the more fun they become and the more copies they sell.  Most gamers have realized it isn't doing 416 points of damage per fireball that's fun... it's watching six bandits scream as they catch fire and fly through the air.  The whole idea of attributes and number based character sheets is already dead.  It's just lingering on a like fart, soon to be waved away.

DA3's best marketing strategy would be to scream "Wow!  Look what we learned from Skyrim!  We're taking a huge nod from Skyrim's character creation!"  And then go ahead and continue on with an even more stripped down version of the DA2 mechanics.  It would alienate the grognards, and attract modern gamers.  Win-win.

Again, I completely disagree.  The DA2 resource node system reduced crafting to shopping.  Needing to carry the materials is important.  Needing to sacrifice other things in order to carry the materials is important.

You sound like a guy who would love World of Warcraft!  They're is a ton of grinding and inventory management to do any crafting at all. 

Why should the world accommodate your laziness?

Because it's a video game.  If I were to ever work hard at a video game I would feel bad about myself.  :lol:

[Meris]

The whole idea of attributes and number based character sheets is already dead. It's just lingering on a like fart, soon to be waved away.

Claiming that the party-based combat in RPGs is dead is not only denying the continued sucess of DA:O, but also boldly blinding oneself of the RTS genre.

Claiming that only a bunch of disgruntled old timers bought DA:O is denying not only my existance, but also adding more legitimacy to the party-based combat, since these 'old timers' are a market of their own.

If you think Skyrim's success is because of the TES combat, which TES fans complain about almost as much as BioWare fans on DA2, or even its character customization, than you've missed the game's point.

Modifié par Meris, 21 décembre 2011 - 06:23 .

[KennethAFTopp]

http://au.gamespot.c...tml?tag=nl.e579


That's an interesting twist. Not sure I like it, hub based Dragon Age Games are fine by me, but still!

Modifié par KennethAFTopp, 21 décembre 2011 - 06:23 .

[KennethAFTopp]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Skyrim's MQ is well enogh integrated into the game as a whole that it never stands out as something to be examined unless you're metagaming based on journal classifications.  that is absolutely something BioWare should do again (they haven't done it since the original Baldur's Gate, and I'd like to see it return - Skyrim does it well).

Who cares about intergration?  The MQ was still boring.  Fail. 

I just had a conversation with Max Von Sydow, Right now I am loving the Skyrim MQ