230 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

My only issue with Jack is that she's a forced recruit. I see why (for the whole "CERBERUS IS BAD!" message but yeah. ) I kind of sigh at the thought of my Shep recruiting a powerful biotic that only harbors ill will for Cerberus. It's an unnecessary risk to him. Especially when he can get by without said risk. (Miranda and Jacob are biotics [as is he even if the game ignores that] so he really isn't in any dire need for a biotic expert and by the time the SM is ready to be launched he can recruit Samara [another risk but she at least doesn't have a personal vendetta against Cerberus and once she makes her vow said risk is neutralized ftm]. 

Well that and how she tells my Shep to GTFO if he's not romancing her.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 décembre 2011 - 04:59 .

[JeffZero]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

Methinks you're wasting your... typing fingers?... AdmiralCheez. Either he's a troll or he just doesn't care, to write stuff like that.

And while I don't overly like Jack, from someone who has worked at a social shelter I can tell you she is all too real. The kind of ''strong'' you describe, that stays unnaffected by the events, just doesn't fit the situation and is far more unrealistic than a person being emotionally ruined by an atrocious childhood if you ask me. She has been used as a lab rat at best since she was conscious. We're not talking about being bullied in school here. She literally had no life beyond being experimented on and being encouraging go feel pleasure when she used violence. Really, I find that she gets over it quite easily over the course of the game.

You've worked at a shelter? Thank you, I appreciate the hard work. I salute you. I mean it.

[Xeranx]

A lot of us were bullied as children. Seems to be a pre-requisite for those of us who participate on game forums. Still, Jack wasn't someone I could connect with. And on top of that she wasn't a character I desired (as a character in a game) at all.

From the first video that was released of her I hoped I could refuse to take her with me. I clearly saw that she was (veritably) Humpty-Dumpty. I knew she was going to have to be fixed, and I didn't want to have to fix her. To be honest, I didn't want her at all. And the funny thing about it is it had nothing to do with what I thought the game should be about or what Shepard should be doing, but everything to do with her depiction. I found her to be a cliche.

Maybe she's as real as people say and I can't get passed my having seen the character a few times before. And maybe my view of her could have changed if it didn't take my Shepard being male to bring her around. Who knows? Then again, I just don't feel a lot for the characters in ME2 which is surprising because I wanted to like Miranda due to her VA being the voice and face of the character. But I can't even do that.

[JeffZero]

I wasn't bullied, actually. I've never had such issues.

[AdmiralCheez]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Should I provoke I rant or no... ah hell.

If the whole "renegade quickie" was something that happened once or twice, I'd buy it that Jack didn't really know how ...little... she was getting herself into. But I get the impression that she's something of a repeat offender in this regard. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting some sort of magic to happen. And she is screwed up, regardless of what excuses you make for her. Probably beyond repair.

So what that she's screwed up?  That doesn't make her a sex doll/bad character.  She's not expecting magic, either--just a quick rush of pleasure, like a drug hit, a stiff drink, or a barfight.  This quick and dangerous gratification was conditioned in her as a child: do dumb and violent things to feel good, but don't ever get close to anyone because you'll get hurt.

Jack is tragic, fascinating, and human because she's screwed up.  When you're hurt badly enough, it changes you.  And we've all been hurt.  The fact that Jack is still alive is testament to her strength, no matter how broken she may be.

Lol @ sl*t shame. Would you really expect someone to have long lasting and fulfilling relationships if they carry themselves like a dog? It's not about sexual freedom or whatever you would like to call it, it's about foresight and hindsight. Miri's stability is a front. Turn up the heat and the front goes away, exposing the inner psycho. Hard assery is similar in nature to bad temper in that it is something you must "pamper" to counter its effects. Very similar workaround.

Wait, what?  This doesn't even make sense.  Where are you getting this?  Miranda's perfectly sane.  She's also very strong and in control of herself--her one flaw is that she doesn't see how strong she is; she doesn't value herself as a person because she doesn't think she deserves to be who she is.  That's a very human flaw, one I'm sure a lot of people can identify with.  Ever feel like you don't deserve the things you have?  Ever feel like you're not good enough?  Ever lie to yourself and others to hide how utterly dissatisfied you are with your identity?  Because that's Miranda in a nutshell.  That's her core struggle, and that's what makes her a good, strong, sympathetic character despite the stupid outfit.

And this whole "never had long lasting relationship" is pure speculation.  Seriously.  I mean, what, does she have to get married?  Please.  And yes, you sl*t-shamed--you implied that the more sex a woman has, the less value she has as a person.

And apples and oranges is a terrible analogy.

So's your hateful BS.

[Xeranx]

JeffZero wrote...

I wasn't bullied, actually. I've never had such issues.

Hence why I said 'a lot' rather than "all". 

[Ryzaki]

JeffZero wrote...

I wasn't bullied, actually. I've never had such issues.

I wish I was so lucky.

People can be jerks (which is why I can understand  where Jack is coming from and the strength it took to get there).

Still wouldn't recruit her if it was optional though.

And Miranda's relationship issues would be far more due to her perfectionism and uptightness and self esteem issues than how many people she slept with.

It's really too bad Jack doesn't have a strong friendship path. She would've benefited the most from one.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 décembre 2011 - 05:09 .

[JeffZero]

Xeranx wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

I wasn't bullied, actually. I've never had such issues.

Hence why I said 'a lot' rather than "all". 

apologies to both you and Ry, I didn't mean to sound like an ass posting that, lol. I meant that since I posted that I can relate to Jack, if you were saying "a lot of us have been bullied" I thought I would specify that that wasn't really where I found relatable aspects.

I had a lot of tough knocks as a kid but somehow I dodged the bully bullet.

[JeffZero]

FallTooDovahkiin wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

I wasn't bullied, actually. I've never had such issues.

LOL:lol::lol:

----
EDIT:
@AdmiralCheez

Strongly agree.
Couldn't have said it better myself if I was to talk with that cracka.

he hella rude tbh

[Ryzaki]

JeffZero wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

I wasn't bullied, actually. I've never had such issues.

Hence why I said 'a lot' rather than "all". 

apologies to both you and Ry, I didn't mean to sound like an ass posting that, lol. I meant that since I posted that I can relate to Jack, if you were saying "a lot of us have been bullied" I thought I would specify that that wasn't really where I found relatable aspects.

I had a lot of tough knocks as a kid but somehow I dodged the bully bullet.

Eh I was luckier than most. It only lasted for 6 months until I got pissed off enough to kick the ringleader in the face and knock her teeth down her throat and start bashing her head against the window. They left me alone after I flipped out. I suppose the learned to leave the quiet ones alone after that.

Though NP. I think most people go through rough knocks sadly. Wish it wasn't like that but eh. It's life.

I do wish Jack didn't go all F*** OFF! after Shep slept with her though. Surely that wasn't worth such a reaction? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 décembre 2011 - 05:16 .

[JeffZero]

No doubt, Ryzaki. No doubt!

[Giantdeathrobot]

@JeffZero yeah, it wasn't easy. Technically, it was for my college, but only 2 weeks mandatory. I ended up doing it for 6 months, then quit, it was just too much at times. I live in Montreal, it's not a poor city by any means but a lot of **** is going on, no need to add details I assume. Let's just say I met several people who were like Jack. There were employees in that shelter that were there since one, two, five, even ten years and beyond (it's run by a rather popular artist, he can afford to pay minimal wages). I don't know how they manage.

About her casual approach to sex, that's a very realistic part of her character. People who never had any idea of romantic love generally treat sex like one would any other entertainment. No involvement at all. And I agree Jack's proposal was a test more than anything, even. She refuses to speak with Shepard again if he accepts, that's telling if anything is.

[Ryzaki]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

A lot of us were bullied as children. Seems to be a pre-requisite for those of us who participate on game forums. 

There's not tooooooooo much comparison between bullying and psychological and emotional abuse. Being bullied isn't THAT much of a qualifier to say whether Jack is "believable" or not.

Are you seriously making the suggestion that bullying isn't abuse of a sort? 

Now If you're gonna say it's not on the same level I'd agree. But bullying (especially extreme bullying) can be extremely psychologically damaging. There's more to bullying than just pushing someone down on the playground and laughing as they get mud in their hair. That's a form of it sure but that's certainly not the only one.

Being made to feel like ****, like you're nothing, that can come just as easily from strangers as it can from your parents and it's damaging either way. Luckily some of the time with bullying the family is a fallback but it's not always that way.

And ugh I sound preachy. NVM.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 décembre 2011 - 05:20 .

[Volus Warlord]

Well you know, I just had to get the hate out. :/

First off, I never saw the need "quick and dangerous" gratification you speak of. To me it shows personal weakness and a gross lack of foresight.

Miranda is perfectly sane.. uh.. what? She's is second only to Jack in psycho-level. (Maybe I should make a poll about that sometime.) There are more types of crazy than the direct crazy you see from Jack. Also, stop relating what I say to sexism. It is not male chauvinism that fuels those opinions, much as you would like to think it is.

As per what makes people valuable.. well hey, that's just your own thing to decide.

[JeffZero]

@Giantdeathrobot Yeah, that's a damn long time to work in a place like that. I'd go crazy for sure. But I have the utmost respect for anyone that works at those places. My mom and I were at one for a few weeks when I was little. I was so grateful to have a bed to sleep in, even if the company during the day left something to be desired.

And I agree fully about the sex thing. The fact that Jack backs away so much afterward is extremely telling.

Modifié par JeffZero, 21 décembre 2011 - 05:22 .

[Volus Warlord]

JeffZero wrote...

I wasn't bullied, actually. I've never had such issues.

Pssh. Everybody's been bullied. Then they bully other people. It's just the way it works.


Someone treats you like garbage, then you treat other people like garbage, then they treat other people like garbage.. so on and so forth. :happy:

[AdmiralCheez]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Well you know, I just had to get the hate out. :/

First off, I never saw the need "quick and dangerous" gratification you speak of. To me it shows personal weakness and a gross lack of foresight.

Oh, so that drugs-for-kills conditioning was obviously supposed to have no effect whatsoever...

Also, I suggest you read the other posts about the renesex: if Shep takes advantage of her, she stops talking to him--he's proven himself to be scum like the rest, just using her, and only worth hanging around because he's her ticket to freedom.

Miranda is perfectly sane.. uh.. what? She's is second only to Jack in psycho-level. (Maybe I should make a poll about that sometime.) There are more types of crazy than the direct crazy you see from Jack. Also, stop relating what I say to sexism. It is not male chauvinism that fuels those opinions, much as you would like to think it is.

You fail to explain WHAT is crazy about her.  And yeah, that whole devaluing a human being because she's sexually active is pretty sexist.

As per what makes people valuable.. well hey, that's just your own thing to decide.

Yep.  Misogynist.

[JeffZero]

Volus Warlord wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

I wasn't bullied, actually. I've never had such issues.

Pssh. Everybody's been bullied. Then they bully other people. It's just the way it works.


Someone treats you like garbage, then you treat other people like garbage, then they treat other people like garbage.. so on and so forth. :happy:

It was an exaggeration on my part to say I've never been bullied, but I kind of meant on the level that Ryzaki insinuated. The hugely damaging level.

As for paying it forward, I prefer to do so with nice things.

[Another_Golden_Dragon]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Someone treats you like garbage, then you treat other people like garbage, then they treat other people like garbage.. so on and so forth. :happy:

And the cycle must be broken, or we become the Krogan.

[Volus Warlord]

AdmiralCheez wrote...



You fail to explain WHAT is crazy about her.  And yeah, that whole devaluing a human being because she's sexually active is pretty sexist.

Is it? If I lose respect for both men and women for the same causes, how is it sexist?

[Youknow]

Jack is alright. My biggest problem is how she seems to handle herself considerably better when you are a female than when you are a male... Almost makes it feel like she tried to guilt trip you into that scene...

She tells you to stop bothering her when you are a female and acts like "you're cool Shep, but I'm cool, and I don't feel like hanging out with you 24/7." I wish you could get that with her as a male, but NO you just get "**** off!"

[Volus Warlord]

Another_Golden_Dragon wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

Someone treats you like garbage, then you treat other people like garbage, then they treat other people like garbage.. so on and so forth. :happy:

And the cycle must be broken, or we become the Krogan.

The cycle cannot be broken. The cycle will never be broken.