139 réponses à ce sujet

[Brand907]

For not having any interest in males.. Alistair certainly does have some lines that make you wonder. My first play through was as a male and the Lampost Licking conversation line was very.. uhmm.. yeah.

[Ninjatroll]

TallBearNC wrote...

He even has slightly different dialog for males vs females lol: "I've never considered doing something like this before" ROFL! and he will behave towards a male romance a bit differently vs a female as well.

The ability to romance Alistair as a male IS in the game, but for SOME reason, they took the FLAG out preventing it. It's QUITE easy to turn this flag on, allowing any gender to romance him.

TallBearNC wrote...
all the dialogue and other things and
present in the game for a M/M relationship with alistair.. even
Morrigan talks has sex and behaves differently with a woman. So the
coding and scripting is in the game also. It was probably put it so
people could write modules to suit player's needs.

Sheryl Chee wrote...
I'm sorry, but you are wrong. Alistair was never intended
to be romanceable for males, neither was Morrigan for females. There is
absolutely no dialog written for this, and if you make
Alistair/Morrigan ignore gender checks, they will still talk to you as
though you are of the opposite sex.

Now I'm confused. The OP claim that there in fact is a difference in dialog and scripting. But the Bioware employe claim the oposite. Anyone else tried this?

[alek2702]

Ninjatroll wrote...
Now I'm confused. The OP claim that there in fact is a difference in dialog and scripting. But the Bioware employe claim the oposite. Anyone else tried this?

I just tried it and Alistair called me a "woman" so I guess it doesn't change the dialog.

But after all you're his 'queen' so maybe that's not that wierd ...

Modifié par alek2702, 27 novembre 2009 - 04:21 .

[TallBearNC]

Sheryl Chee wrote...

TallBearNC wrote...

Actually I VERY MUCH understand RPG, and the game IS coded for Alistair to date men in the game, but for some reason BW took it out at the last minute.

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. Alistair was never intended to be romanceable for males, neither was Morrigan for females. There is absolutely no dialog written for this, and if you make Alistair/Morrigan ignore gender checks, they will still talk to you as though you are of the opposite sex. It was not "taken out". The reason there is a flag that checks for same sex romances is because all the flags that could conceivably be needed were put into the template romance plots, and then duplicated for all the romances.

If you want to make them bisexual, go to it, just don't assume that just because the flag was there and never used, that it's because the same sex romances were taken out at the last minute on a whim.

If you like I'd be MORE than happy to FRAPS a video of Alistair talking to my male character. Yes in some places he refers to him as a her.. and when I married him I became the queen.. but there IS other dialogue he's using when u force him M/M vs M/F. So unless you happen to be a DEV who programmed him. I suggest you play as a M and force yourself into a rel with him and watch for yourself

And for being "straight" he has the "most gay" references, vocal inflections, etc out of any male character in the game. LOL. I thought he was gay all along. 

But if you want proof, Im happy to faps some video showing alistair saying VERY differnet things to males vs females sexually, etc I'll also be MORE than happy to do the same with Morrigan.

I've played the game through NINE times so far, and I can tell you 2000000000000000% certainty when you FORCE Morrigan to F/F and Alistair to M/M, there ARE some differences (sex scenes are different as well as after sex dialogue). Morrigan will also talk to a femal lover slightly differently than a male. You are correct when they talk to the player and use the players gender, it will come out opposite to your gender if you force them.

So please don't insult my intelligence. I wouldn't have made such a post had I not seen it myself.

Just the other day people in BW/EA "tech support" were CLUELESS DLCs used SSID reigstry entries and people in BW were running around not doing what's going on.

So I'm sorry.. short of a DEVELOPER (especially one who CODED) Alistair chimes in, what you have to say doesn't hold much water as I HAVE seen different in game with my own eyes.

Modifié par TallBearNC, 28 novembre 2009 - 01:09 .

[TallBearNC]

olnorton wrote...

TallBearNC, what is the armor Morrigan is wearing in this shot?
farm3.static.flickr.com/2547/4127494296_4bf55526fd_o.jpg

The Andraste healers set of gear

[LichtVonWahrheit]

TallBearNC wrote...

Sheryl Chee wrote...

TallBearNC wrote...

Actually I VERY MUCH understand RPG, and the game IS coded for Alistair to date men in the game, but for some reason BW took it out at the last minute.

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. Alistair was never intended to be romanceable for males, neither was Morrigan for females. There is absolutely no dialog written for this, and if you make Alistair/Morrigan ignore gender checks, they will still talk to you as though you are of the opposite sex. It was not "taken out". The reason there is a flag that checks for same sex romances is because all the flags that could conceivably be needed were put into the template romance plots, and then duplicated for all the romances.

If you want to make them bisexual, go to it, just don't assume that just because the flag was there and never used, that it's because the same sex romances were taken out at the last minute on a whim.

If you like I'd be MORE than happy to FRAPS a video of Alistair talking to my male character. Yes in some places he refers to him as a her.. and when I married him I became the queen.. but there IS other dialogue he's using when u force him M/M vs M/F. So unless you happen to be a DEV who programmed him. I suggest you play as a M and force yourself into a rel with him and watch for yourself

And for being "straight" he has the "most gay" references, vocal inflections, etc out of any male character in the game. LOL. I thought he was gay all along. 

But if you want proof, Im happy to faps some video showing alistair saying VERY differnet things to males vs females sexually, etc I'll also be MORE than happy to do the same with Morrigan.

I've played the game through NINE times so far, and I can tell you 2000000000000000% certainty when you FORCE Morrigan to F/F and Alistair to M/M, there ARE some differences (sex scenes are different as well as after sex dialogue). Morrigan will also talk to a femal lover slightly differently than a male. You are correct when they talk to the player and use the players gender, it will come out opposite to your gender if you force them.

So please don't insult my intelligence. I wouldn't have made such a post had I not seen it myself.

Just the other day people in BW/EA "tech support" were CLUELESS DLCs used SSID reigstry entries and people in BW were running around not doing what's going on.

So I'm sorry.. short of a DEVELOPER (especially one who CODED) Alistair chimes in, what you have to say doesn't hold much water as I HAVE seen different in game with my own eyes.

It would be far simpler if you would post video to prove that its different. The burden of proof falls on to the one making the claim, not on others to disprove it.

[Vicious]

Same sex romances don't float my boat but kudos to those who enjoy them. It's also cool all characters can go which way. It doesn't change the game at all, just allows more options.



Replay Value>All.

[EricHVela]

I have found no different dialog between the +100% Alistair M/F and the +100% Alistair M/M debug hack with the same quests completed. I've tried many dialog combinations and it seems the code does not understand M/M with Alistair and assumes he's interacting with a woman. The kissing scene in camp is clipped horribly wrong in M/M.

Go ahead and use the hack, but the romance flag is simply a part of the code and is needed for the intended romance options. The hack is forcing a change that does not seem to be intended. Right or wrong: It's your game to play how you want, but do not insist that BW intended a gay Alistair option and decided against it. The evidence points otherwise if you test it out fairly.

You're essentially changing the parameters of the intended game if the code gives such evidence. As I mentioned, you are free to do what you want aside from reverse engineering the engine

(Alistair always says he's never done that kind of thing before. Why? Because he's never done it with anyone before. He was in a kind of monastery. Duh! Of course, he'll say he's never done that kind of thing before. This line is used for the M/F just as it is for the M/M debug hack.)

Modifié par ReggarBlane, 28 novembre 2009 - 07:28 .

[AlphaMagnum]

TallBear....Sheryl Chee is one of the lead writers who wrote the dialogue for the game, and in particular she wrote for Dog, Leliana, and Wynne, though I assume she has a complete understanding of the rest of the characters as well.

If she says that those things weren't written that way, and that development didn't include 'adding same-sex romances then taking them out,' then she's probably right.

Also - there's no need to be rude, and like another poster said, it's your burden to actually prove that these things are in-game, not Bioware's to prove that they aren't.

PS: Lay off on the caps.  Makes you look like a jerk, if that wasn't what you were trying to do.

Modifié par AlphaMagnum, 28 novembre 2009 - 07:37 .

[MS3825]

Sheryl Chee can say what she wants. Bioware had a previous issue with one of their moderators saying stuff on forums before about gay characters in their games.
I wouldn't expect a programmer / writer to come on the forums, but if she is a writer I doubt she is the sole writer for all characters... and certainly the characters ALL had changes from their first imagining to the final product. Furthermore the PUBLISHERS stick their noses in development far too often in all medias. Who's to say Alistair didn't START gay but then someone other than the person(s) who wrote most of his stuff decided he wasn't?

While Zevran may have the most obvious "gay dialog", Alistair is the one who pings my gaydar the most from his regular dialogue. Someone mentioned the pillowfight speech etc. for him and I agree.
Breeders often can't fathom their oh-so-straight macho athletes (warrior in this case) that they look up to are in fact gay. They don't hit on anything with a "joystick" instead of an "Xbox". They don't have limp wrists. You'd never know they were gay until they retire and no longer have a fear of people discriminating and ruining their careers and lives when they come out and shock their fans. Maybe Alastair is one of those guys. As a Grey Warden he wouldn't want to be seen as "weak" or different... especially not after being kicked out of the only home he ever knew.
I would say Zevran is the straight one... but he wants to get close to his mark (The main character) and/or not be killed by him. Keep your friends close but your enemies closer.

Gay's have been playing "Guess the Gay" watching movies and TV for decades, and video-games more recently. I'm glad for the inclusion of open same gender flirting / teasing at the very least. I'm also VERY surprised by the support of the idea for gay characters here on the forums.
Maybe humans aren't that bad after all...

Modifié par MS3825, 28 novembre 2009 - 09:46 .

[Puzzlewell]

Whenever I get to my third playthrough (cause second is already planned out) I was pondering playing as a Human Noble warrior. I'll give this a shot to see how F/F with Morrigan works out. Thanks for the info

[alek2702]

well, whether or not it changes the dialog, most of the time it works great.

i started another playthrough yesterday (with the hack enabled), got a +100 from Alistair, and i think there was only one time he called my male char. a 'woman' and the rest of the romance dialog fits perfectly with the usual m/m friendship.

Thanks for the info

[teo torriate]

code2501 wrote...

Hate to break it to you, but Zevron is nothing but a walking stereotype, there is nothing real about him, and playing through several games with male characters alistair has only not made what I would call a "pass" on one of them, and thats without touching the console.

Kid yourself into thinking hes just a "bro-mantic" but in the real world you don't find guys talking to you with some of his dialogue options unless they are flirting with you.

Yeah - Zevron is a terrible stereotype - but then it's a minor miracle that we even get gay/bi options in a game like this at all.

You're also right about some of Alistair's dialogue - my jaw hit the ground when he said to my (male) character - "you look really cute when you're angry"..... 

[TallBearNC]

AlphaMagnum wrote...

TallBear....Sheryl Chee is one of the lead writers who wrote the dialogue for the game, and in particular she wrote for Dog, Leliana, and Wynne, though I assume she has a complete understanding of the rest of the characters as well.

If she says that those things weren't written that way, and that development didn't include 'adding same-sex romances then taking them out,' then she's probably right.

Also - there's no need to be rude, and like another poster said, it's your burden to actually prove that these things are in-game, not Bioware's to prove that they aren't.

PS: Lay off on the caps.  Makes you look like a jerk, if that wasn't what you were trying to do.

Normally I do not use caps, but they were intended. She annoyed me - all but calling me a liar which really pissed me off to tell you the truth. I've been busting my ass in the tech forums helping people fix their games and work around BWs MASSIVE bugs in teh game and DLC content while BW/EA either 1) has no answers, 2) can't help people, and 3) are taking WAY too long to fix them. I then come over here and post something exciting and she decides to come slap me down.

Also usually most of the time I see people from EA or BW posting things on these forums they are usually wrong or giving users misinformation.

I really don't care who she wrote the dialog for unless it was Alistair and she was personally involved in ALL the dialogue, animations, and everything he can do. So far I've seen people at BW not knowing what other ppl have done with the game. In the tech support forums many BW employees were clueless to find out that the DLC stored things in the registry.

As soon as I return from vacation and have high speed inet. I will fraps the differences for this thread and that will end that discussion right there. Who knows maybe another writer or dev put things in there she has no clue about.

 I'm on dial up at my grandparents right now.

[Rappeldrache]

Hello,

this cheat (?) - does he make it possible to have two romances at the same time? I have a female Elf.

I want to see the Zevran-romance AND Alistair-romance from the beginning (at the same time) .... Or do you have a idea how I can stop the jealousy, please?


PS: Greetings from Germany - the major of our capital Berlin is gay and our foreign minister, too.

Modifié par Rappeldrache, 28 novembre 2009 - 10:18 .

[Cirellion_Malevar]

Shabob wrote...

TallBearNC wrote...

chiliztri wrote...

Mugatoo wrote...

as a female player .. I CANT fathom my Alistair gay sorry.... I refuse to hear this ..(sad that they would even put that in game at all) Thats just gross... you can have Zevron tho for that crap, ..
(my hubby is mugatoo signed on since we both cant have diff accts.)

That's your opinion and your entitled to it, but while you may find it "gross", others will really enjoy this.

Let's keep the gay-bashing to a minimum please. If you don't like this, don't click on the topic and read it. Simple as that.

Exactly this is a spoiler thread on how to romance characters that were thought not possible.. NOT a morality discussion... if people have any sort of morale objections, they shouldn't even BE playing a mature game with sexual situations, gay/lesbian/bi content, GRAPHIC violence and gore

Exactly, now will someone create a beastiality mod so I can have sex with dog?  I would also like a child molestation mod so I can go priestly on Connor.  THANKS!!!

It's true that morality is subjective. Nevertheless, every human culture around the globe agrees that child molestation and bestiality are immoral because of the interrelated and/or subsequent psychological dysfunctions and traumas associated with them. Homosexuality, on the other hand, is not classified as immoral by anyone who can think objectively, and is, in fact, only labeled as such based solely on religious beliefs of Judao-Christian faiths. The only psychological damage that can be attributed to homosexuality is that which is inflicted by others who baselessly claim that it is immoral.

In short, Shabob...you're an idiot.

I do so look forward to the day when society can identify hopeless morons such as yourself at an early age and grant them temporary suvival until such time as their organs need to be harvested for the benefit of those more worthy.

Modifié par Cirellion_Malevar, 29 novembre 2009 - 12:39 .

[TallBearNC]

Rappeldrache wrote...

Hello,

this cheat (?) - does he make it possible to have two romances at the same time? I have a female Elf.

I want to see the Zevran-romance AND Alistair-romance from the beginning (at the same time) .... Or do you have a idea how I can stop the jealousy, please?


PS: Greetings from Germany - the major of our capital Berlin is gay and our foreign minister, too.

Normally ppl will get jealous and insist you "end" it with other people, but you CAN trick it, by saying you will end it.... end it with the person.. re flag them to be romantic then up their aprrove.. this USUALLY works

but in the end (after the finally meeting in the hall) what you decide when you talk to each character will determine a lot of what the final ending is. I've never ended the game with more than 1 active romance

[Arhea]

I somehow ended the game once with Alistair and Zev both in love with my character. Not sure what happened but neither seemed to pick up on the other and I was never forced to chose. Probably just a bug.

[Arijharn]

MS3825 wrote...

Sheryl Chee can say what she wants. Bioware had a previous issue with one of their moderators saying stuff on forums before about gay characters in their games.
I wouldn't expect a programmer / writer to come on the forums, but if she is a writer I doubt she is the sole writer for all characters... and certainly the characters ALL had changes from their first imagining to the final product. Furthermore the PUBLISHERS stick their noses in development far too often in all medias. Who's to say Alistair didn't START gay but then someone other than the person(s) who wrote most of his stuff decided he wasn't?
 

I think that is a ridiculous assertion to make. Wouldn't you think it logical to assume that when developing the game that:
A) They had regular meetings in which every team member gave their feedback in regards to development and their own/their teams progress
That each individual team (Programmers/Artists/etc) had team meetings to discuss more 'advanced' topics (for example; how the AI programming was progressing in regards to physic's implementations). In this case, how much progress Sheryl has made with one of the characters she was writing in regards to how much progress David was having with one of theirs.
C) That they didn't crunch heads together at times to discuss what they felt was important in regards to storyline continuity and come up with something perhaps better than they intended initially.
D) That they didn't know if someone else didn't come up with a better idea.
E) That most of the personalities of their major characters wasn't already worked out (in broad strokes, and yes, I'd say that someone's sexuality would fit snuggly into how they choose to define themselves personality wise) in pre-production? Of course, someone's sexuality wouldn't necessarily be set in stone, but Sheryl just all but confirmed otherwise.
F) That development is completely closed off with no contact with anyone else?

In my limited experience with game design/producing everyone does indeed get together to brainstorm and work out ideas with of course storyline elements being left to the Writers, or Programming being left to programmers. Personally, I think it is frankly asinine to assume that any significant project is created in a vacuum.

[JigPig]

TallBearNC wrote...
 I'm on dial up at my grandparents right now.

How conveniant the "I'm on vacation card"
Just as this thread fades into obscurity and everyone forgets about his ramblings, I suppose he'll fraps his non-existant dialogue?
I'm not holding my breath for the videos, lol

[Fishy]

nuculerman wrote...

TallBearNC wrote...

So in the end I find the game is FULLY capable of having ALL characters "going both ways" which IMO they should have allowed from the start.. Now any RPGers, str8, gay, lesbian, bi, etc can romance their fav character and FULLY enjoy the game

good find.  But I don't think you actually understand "rpg."  Allistair is straight.  He is a character in a world that you are playing a role in.  If he doesn't have any interest in having sex with other men then he doesn't have any interest in having sex with other men.  Likewise for Morrigan.

Bioware doesn't write "sandbox" RPGs, where it's you and a world to exploit.  It's your character, in a world full of other characters.  Allistair is supposed to feel like a real person.  So is Morrigan.  So is Lelianna.  So is Zevran.  It makes perfect sense that Lelianna would go either way with her background.  She's probably had to seduce as many women as men before she stole their secrets.  It makes perfect sense Zevran would go either way.  He's probably had to seduce as many men as women before he slit their throats.  It makes perfect sense that Morrigan is straight.  Flemeth is straight and anything Flemeth says is the word of God.  She's interested in power and men generally garner that.  It makes perfect sense that Allistair is straight.  He was a Templar.  Religious zealots and all that...

Are you saying that depending of your childhood you're either homosexual or straight?i don't buy it .. You're either homosexual or not.Your'e born like this.Personnaly .. Thinking of bedding a man disgust me.

Yes i can find a male very attractive   but i have ZERO sexual intention.2 guy making out and you see me running in the bathroom throwing up.

Although seing 2 woman making out i love that  .I tryed to play has a homosexual elf  .. I TRYED ... I just could not finish the game lol .

If i was a woman i would probably be Lesbian though.Woman are so much more beautiful than man.I just love woman ..

When we're created we're actually all of female sex .. it's just after that depending of those chromozone that we're either female or Male.Some guy have a lot of those female chromozone .

Morrigan and Allistair are 100 % hetero sexual .. You're cheating if you bed them with the same sex.it's just feel wrong for me and gross.

[DeathTyrant]

Interesting mod, it certainly opens up everyone's options hehe.

I'm not fussed about who they make hetero/homosexual in games, but I do it to be a constant.

I like characters to be properly defined as one or the other (or defined as bisexual), rather than something that the PC can change through dialogue choices and actions. Of course the very reverse could be true for others. Perhaps they see it as them helping a kindred spirit out of the closet.

[TallBearNC]

JigPig wrote...

TallBearNC wrote...
 I'm on dial up at my grandparents right now.

How conveniant the "I'm on vacation card"
Just as this thread fades into obscurity and everyone forgets about his ramblings, I suppose he'll fraps his non-existant dialogue?
I'm not holding my breath for the videos, lol

****** off moron. I bookmarked my own thread. Do you think I'd actually make a claim then not be able to back it up? 

I'm up in Hot Springs, VA (actually 1/2 way in between Covington and Hot Springs) go look it up on the map you idiot. I'm out in the BOONIES. There's no DSL, no cable modems, no NOTHING here at my grandparents... they are in their 70s and old country folk. Hell I don't even get cell reception. I'll be home tomorrow.... I have the game on my laptop and I've already frapsed the differences, but I can not upload them via a 56K modem AOL dialup. As soon as I am home I will UL them.

Modifié par TallBearNC, 01 décembre 2009 - 04:42 .

[TallBearNC]

Suprez30 wrote...

nuculerman wrote...

TallBearNC wrote...

So in the end I find the game is FULLY capable of having ALL characters "going both ways" which IMO they should have allowed from the start.. Now any RPGers, str8, gay, lesbian, bi, etc can romance their fav character and FULLY enjoy the game

good find.  But I don't think you actually understand "rpg."  Allistair is straight.  He is a character in a world that you are playing a role in.  If he doesn't have any interest in having sex with other men then he doesn't have any interest in having sex with other men.  Likewise for Morrigan.

Bioware doesn't write "sandbox" RPGs, where it's you and a world to exploit.  It's your character, in a world full of other characters.  Allistair is supposed to feel like a real person.  So is Morrigan.  So is Lelianna.  So is Zevran.  It makes perfect sense that Lelianna would go either way with her background.  She's probably had to seduce as many women as men before she stole their secrets.  It makes perfect sense Zevran would go either way.  He's probably had to seduce as many men as women before he slit their throats.  It makes perfect sense that Morrigan is straight.  Flemeth is straight and anything Flemeth says is the word of God.  She's interested in power and men generally garner that.  It makes perfect sense that Allistair is straight.  He was a Templar.  Religious zealots and all that...

Are you saying that depending of your childhood you're either homosexual or straight?i don't buy it .. You're either homosexual or not.Your'e born like this.Personnaly .. Thinking of bedding a man disgust me.

Yes i can find a male very attractive   but i have ZERO sexual intention.2 guy making out and you see me running in the bathroom throwing up.

Although seing 2 woman making out i love that  .I tryed to play has a homosexual elf  .. I TRYED ... I just could not finish the game lol .

If i was a woman i would probably be Lesbian though.Woman are so much more beautiful than man.I just love woman ..

When we're created we're actually all of female sex .. it's just after that depending of those chromozone that we're either female or Male.Some guy have a lot of those female chromozone .

Morrigan and Allistair are 100 % hetero sexual .. You're cheating if you bed them with the same sex.it's just feel wrong for me and gross.

This isn't a morality thread. It'a a spoiler thread on how to enable romances that are not part of the "normal" storyline. So either help with the disccusion or STFU, and take your moral judgements and shove them

Modifié par TallBearNC, 01 décembre 2009 - 04:32 .

[TallBearNC]

This game is MEANT to be modded, changed, and be made into ANYTHING the gamer sees fit if they have the knowlege how to do it. I'm just doing it via an internal script at the moment vs a mod.
 
There are people out there already modding the game to add more towns, stories, change characters orientations, etc... If  anyone thinks doing any of this is "cheating" then you have no clue about why this game was made and is what it is

And if none of that convinces any of you idiots out there who keep yipping that changing things is "cheating" then go look up to the right of the home button and click the PROJECTS button. Wow. Bioware released a toolset for ppl to mod the game and even set up a place for people (and ENCOURAGES them) to share their mods with the community.....

Modifié par TallBearNC, 01 décembre 2009 - 04:38 .