372 réponses à ce sujet

[Made Nightwing]

Would you all like to know a dirty secret of mine?

I like Miranda. I like Tali. I like Liara, Jack, Kaidan, Thane, Garrus, Chakwas, TIM, Anderson. I even like Udina...well...maybe not Udina.

And most of all, coming out at a narrow margin, I like Ashley.

Why do I like them? I like them because they resonated with me. I liked their stories, I liked their conversations, I liked their romance plotlines. I liked their quirks.

I'm an 18-year old Army Reserve Officer candidate. I run, swim, kickbox and shoot. I am also at university, studying Theology, Philosophy, Literature and History. You all have your stories. You're not exclusively one faceted. You have things you like, things you dislike, little things that people like about you, and little things that people HATE about you. Putting in character flaws to go with their strengths is what makes the characters what they are. It's what makes people who they are.
Far too many people on this forum lock on to the popular opinion without bothering to form their own. They get a negative picture of a character in their heads, and will not allow anyone else to alter that.

Ashley is a strong and deep character. Family oriented, traditional. For her, honour and service are not punchlines, but core beliefs. She has a chip on her shoulder, yes, due to her family name. She believes in what the Alliance stands for, even if her grandfather crucified by them. Have none of you ever met servicemen and women in real life? Have you heard any of them advocating having military officers of a foreign power, or a mercenary, stationed on a top secret stealth ship?

As I said, I like all the characters, but Ashley stands out as being nose bitingly, confrontationally REAL.

[Made Nightwing]

Dariustwinblade wrote...

^That only prooves her xenophobic and narrominded point of view. Her paranoia, if she has such a problem WITH HER SUPERIOR'S descision then she shouldn't be in the crew. Shepard trusts the aliens so should she. She had nothing standing for her. The "could be" argument is not a valid reason to harrase Liara. She wasn't being cautious she was being a bit*h to Liara. Who just made a valid suggestion.

lol, you're adorable.

By your reasoning, since General Bradley frequently disagreed with General Patton, Bradley shouldn't have been on Patton's command staff? In a military unit, particularly a frontline combat unit, the senior NCOs HAVE to bring security concerns to the attention of the commanding officer.

In the ME universe, it is NOT common procedure to have aliens aboard human starships. Particularly krogan...particularly krogan mercenaries. Now Shepard may have been more perceptive than some, but Ashley is no mere grunt. A grunt would sit down, shut up and do as they were told. A US Marine Corps Gunnery Sergeant/US Navy Chief Petty Officer doesn't ****foot around their CO, and whoever wrote Ashley kept that in mind.

[Nashiktal]

Dariustwinblade wrote...

^That only prooves her xenophobic and narrominded point of view. Her paranoia, if she has such a problem WITH HER SUPERIOR'S descision then she shouldn't be in the crew. Shepard trusts the aliens so should she. She had nothing standing for her. The "could be" argument is not a valid reason to harrase Liara. She wasn't being cautious she was being a bit*h to Liara. Who just made a valid suggestion.

So she isn't allowed to have an opinions, even when its he duty to point out security concerns? Not once does she ever go against her commanders (which she doesn't really if I remember sheps wording correctlyl) orders save on virmire, which even then was only to save shep's life.

She ask's shep permission to speak freely about aliens, shep accepts, she voices it, and then you are done. She follows sheps orders even when she doesn't agree with them. Just because shep trusts the aliens doesn't mean ashley should. It just means she shouldn't go against his orders, which she doesn't.

In fact being ****y to liara is not against any regulations and orders, and in fact just seems a lot like a soldier acting like a soldier being rude and callous toward an outsider civilian who is giving tactical advice to a miliitary commander when she herself is barely old enough to be considered an adult. If you think soldiers are all nicey nice to people in situations like that I think you will be surprised.

Let me propose this scenario, there is an officer under commander Pesh, who for allowance of this hypothetical scenario is in a similar situation as commander shepard only modern day. One day Pesh goes forth to collect a girl due to her connections (daughter) to a known genocidal terrorist's high ranking officer. Not only does Pesh let the girl wander around freely on the ship because she apparently isnt connected to the terrorists (with only her word to go on) but allows the girl to suggest (and follows) said terrorists daughters tactical advice, AND lets the girl use her psychic powers to read his mind on impulse, without attempting to think of alternatives, even despite all the alliance secrets stored in his head?

Is the soldier not allowed to be upset, and is this soldier once given permission to speak freely not allowed to speak her mind about her distrust? Even when said soldier does show sympathy for the girl on occasion? Even when this soldier has always followed Pesh's orders no matter how much she disliked it?

In my opinion Ashley is acting perfectly reasonably. Its only due to the plot that the kumbaya (and persuasion meter) approach actually works out with no consequences.

Modifié par Nashiktal, 27 décembre 2011 - 11:32 .

[Wulfram]

Roses are red, Liara is blue,
I'm not one for poetry, so I'm dumping you.

[DonutsDealer]

Nashiktal wrote...

Dariustwinblade wrote...

^That only prooves her xenophobic and narrominded point of view. Her paranoia, if she has such a problem WITH HER SUPERIOR'S descision then she shouldn't be in the crew. Shepard trusts the aliens so should she. She had nothing standing for her. The "could be" argument is not a valid reason to harrase Liara. She wasn't being cautious she was being a bit*h to Liara. Who just made a valid suggestion.

So she isn't allowed to have an opinions, even when its he duty to point out security concerns? Not once does she ever go against her commanders (which she doesn't really if I remember sheps wording correctlyl) orders save on virmire, which even then was only to save shep's life.

She ask's shep permission to speak freely about aliens, shep accepts, she voices it, and then you are done. She follows sheps orders even when she doesn't agree with them. Just because shep trusts the aliens doesn't mean ashley should. It just means she shouldn't go against his orders, which she doesn't.

In fact being ****y to liara is not against any regulations and orders, and in fact just seems a lot like a soldier acting like a soldier being rude and callous toward an outsider civilian who is giving tactical advice to a miliitary commander when she herself is barely old enough to be considered an adult. If you think soldiers are all nicey nice to people in situations like that I think you will be surprised.

Let me propose this scenario, there is an officer under commander Pesh, who for allowance of this hypothetical scenario is in a similar situation as commander shepard only modern day. One day Pesh goes forth to collect a girl due to her connections (daughter) to a known genocidal terrorist's high ranking officer. Not only does Pesh let the girl wander around freely on the ship because she apparently isnt connected to the terrorists (with only her word to go on) but allows the girl to suggest (and follows) said terrorists daughters tactical advice, AND lets the girl use her psychic powers to read his mind on impulse, without attempting to think of alternatives, even despite all the alliance secrets stored in his head?

Is the soldier not allowed to be upset, and is this soldier once given permission to speak freely not allowed to speak her mind about her distrust? Even when said soldier does show sympathy for the girl on occasion? Even when this soldier has always followed Pesh's orders no matter how much she disliked it?

In my opinion Ashley is acting perfectly reasonably. Its only due to the plot that the kumbaya (and persuasion meter) approach actually works out with no consequences.

If the suggestion is valid you should consider it, even if it comes from a civilian, it would be like when Miranda says you should send a tech expert, you agree because is a good idea and not get mad at her because she is a civilian.

Even if she is Benezia's daughter she shouldn't have asked for permission to ask her about Liara's sexual life (that`s really unprofessional and stupid). It would be like if Saren's son (hipotetically) comes with a weapon to destroy the reapers and gives a plan. You don't get mad at him saying: "Who put you in command?" and such. You just agree whether is a good plan or not.

[JosephDucreux]

Why hate Ashley for her poetry?

Well, cause they be the immature 99% of Talimancers who're just engaging in an e-peen length competition and trying to lengthen their two inchers by slamming other people's choices while going 'UGUUU TALI MY WAIFU IS PUURFEECT URS SUX 0LOLOLOL'. Don't believe me? Just look at Someone With Mass. And he's got mass alright, all 300 pounds of it.

However, there are the respectable 1% of Talimancers who I actually respect, like S.A.K and Calinstel. Salut. Unfortunately, these are pretty much the only 2 Talimancers I've seen so far that are actually respectable on these forums.

Modifié par JosephDucreux, 27 décembre 2011 - 01:52 .

[Dariustwinblade]

Where did Tali come from! And I am a Talihater saying that.

[Ryzaki]

Yeah Ash's comment about aliens made me facepalm.

Yes Ash you apparently are the only one with brains on the ship. Anderson, Udina and Shepard apparently didn't even think about that before you opened your mouth. Obviously.

And there's no way Anderson isn't aware that Garrus and Wrex are on the ship seeing as Shep can be running around with them by his side.

I would've liked a "Well no Ash. Clearly I didn't even think of the risks before you brought it up! Clearly I just invited them along without even thinking about it!" Ah sarcasm.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 décembre 2011 - 02:23 .

[Ryzaki]

Nashiktal wrote...
If anything her point of view makes shep look like an idiot at least initially. His plan works, but it would be like a U.S. soldier actively working with russians and chinese and getting annoyed that his subordinate has reservations about letting them on their brand new advanced warship.

I was with you until this bit.

Garrus is a C-Sec officer who gave Shep intel to help take down Saren (as did Wrex). Recruiting them to help out (especially since Garrus leaps at the chance) isn't stupid at all. It's more like working with the russians and chinese who are trying to take down the dictator just because they're a certain race doesn't mean they agree with all others of said race. It's narrowminded to think such.

Frankly I would be a bit agitated that said subordinate thinks I'm such a collassal idiot that what they're saying didn't at all go through my mind or that no one else (even those who are my superior) saw that it was a low risk and was outweighed by the gains.

Not to mention said advanced warship was codeveloped by the turians so. It's not like they don't already have the blueprints.

Tali herself gives Shep the stake to nail in Saren's coffin. There are at most 3 inviduals (I tend to get this convo before I recruited Liara...at least I'm pretty sure) while there's at least 20 crew members. It's also not likely the three were working together. Even if they *did* try to steal something chances are they'd get caught (remember the engineers tended to stay near Tali and many of the alliance soldiers didn't trust the aliens and would be likely to watch them closely anyways.) It's a risk sure but it certinaly isn't something ridculously stupid. (not to mention Tali can be forced on Shep's ship by Anderson/Udina anyways).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 décembre 2011 - 03:14 .

[android654]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Would you all like to know a dirty secret of mine?

I like Miranda. I like Tali. I like Liara, Jack, Kaidan, Thane, Garrus, Chakwas, TIM, Anderson. I even like Udina...well...maybe not Udina.

And most of all, coming out at a narrow margin, I like Ashley.

Why do I like them? I like them because they resonated with me. I liked their stories, I liked their conversations, I liked their romance plotlines. I liked their quirks.

I'm an 18-year old Army Reserve Officer candidate. I run, swim, kickbox and shoot. I am also at university, studying Theology, Philosophy, Literature and History. You all have your stories. You're not exclusively one faceted. You have things you like, things you dislike, little things that people like about you, and little things that people HATE about you. Putting in character flaws to go with their strengths is what makes the characters what they are. It's what makes people who they are.
Far too many people on this forum lock on to the popular opinion without bothering to form their own. They get a negative picture of a character in their heads, and will not allow anyone else to alter that.

Ashley is a strong and deep character. Family oriented, traditional. For her, honour and service are not punchlines, but core beliefs. She has a chip on her shoulder, yes, due to her family name. She believes in what the Alliance stands for, even if her grandfather crucified by them. Have none of you ever met servicemen and women in real life? Have you heard any of them advocating having military officers of a foreign power, or a mercenary, stationed on a top secret stealth ship?

As I said, I like all the characters, but Ashley stands out as being nose bitingly, confrontationally REAL.

I wholeheartedly agree, but simple people prefer one dimensional characters. Usually people worth knowing lead lives driven by myriad pursuits. I'm not a soldier of any kind, like you are, but I do know what it's like to seek physical, intellectual, and personal ambitions that are seemingly so eclectic that you come off as several people rather than one diverse person.

Ash fits that bill, and from what little I do know of legacy soldiers, she is shockingly real to life.

[Dariustwinblade]

@Ryzaki That is exactly my point.

Ash never thinks of what her superiors. Think off.

Look at Horizon.

Then look at what your former superior commandes Anderson and Hackett did for you. They both stood by you even when working with Cerberus. They protected you from the shadows. (the message transmission in both their shadow broker dossier)


The first message I get from Hackett.

He wants to honour the SR1 crew and built a monument to honor their sacrifice.

THIS is just after I start my mission. He said to a "cerberus traitor" to honour the Sr1. And the Alliance supports it.

The first message I get from Anderson was to clear up the comfusion.


I explain the VS I was in a coma.
I tell them about the collectors.
THEY FU*KING SAW THE COLLECTORS ABDUCTING COLONIST.

And still we get"they could be working with the collectors and be behind the abduction"

Which is an insult to Shepards intelligance.

[Skullheart]

Dariustwinblade wrote...

@Ryzaki That is exactly my point.

Ash never thinks of what her superiors. Think off.

Look at Horizon.

Then look at what your former superior commandes Anderson and Hackett did for you. They both stood by you even when working with Cerberus. They protected you from the shadows. (the message transmission in both their shadow broker dossier)


The first message I get from Hackett.

He wants to honour the SR1 crew and built a monument to honor their sacrifice.

THIS is just after I start my mission. He said to a "cerberus traitor" to honour the Sr1. And the Alliance supports it.

The first message I get from Anderson was to clear up the comfusion.


I explain the VS I was in a coma.
I tell them about the collectors.
THEY FU*KING SAW THE COLLECTORS ABDUCTING COLONIST.

And still we get"they could be working with the collectors and be behind the abduction"

Which is an insult to Shepards intelligance.

Blame bw writers. They want us to hate the VS (same response from both of them).

[Ryzaki]

Eh I always thought Ash was a bit dense when she's mad.

Kaidan saying that is where I facepalmed.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 décembre 2011 - 02:50 .

[android654]

To be fair, if you took the romance route with them its easy to see how they could interpret it as you deceiving them or even blatantly avoiding them. Consider that your paragon response to them is, "I've been gone for two years, why reopen old wounds?" I think that was a bad paragon line to use considering the only other former members you meet are working with you already, and two of them felt spurned by the council after you died.

[Dariustwinblade]

I agree the Horizon scene made more sense with Ashley's character.

Than Kaidan he was a bro who was smart. Sad that he had to be brutally shoehorned to fit Ashley's role.

[AgitatedLemon]

Or maybe Ash and Kaidan are just really bad characters?

[Dariustwinblade]

Unfortunately I never romanced them. Too sh*tty a romance.

Kaidan was a bro who became retarded.

[Ryzaki]

android654 wrote...

To be fair, if you took the romance route with them its easy to see how they could interpret it as you deceiving them or even blatantly avoiding them. Consider that your paragon response to them is, "I've been gone for two years, why reopen old wounds?" I think that was a bad paragon line to use considering the only other former members you meet are working with you already, and two of them felt spurned by the council after you died.

Yeah I don't romance the VS. Plus I used the neutral responses.

So not only is my Shep "WTF" he doesn't even get a letter explaining anything.

[JosephDucreux]

Ryzaki wrote...

Yeah Ash's comment about aliens made me facepalm.

Yes Ash you apparently are the only one with brains on the ship. Anderson, Udina and Shepard apparently didn't even think about that before you opened your mouth. Obviously.

And there's no way Anderson isn't aware that Garrus and Wrex are on the ship seeing as Shep can be running around with them by his side.

I would've liked a "Well no Ash. Clearly I didn't even think of the risks before you brought it up! Clearly I just invited them along without even thinking about it!" Ah sarcasm.

Would you let a U.S. soldier invite and give a guided tour aboard a nuke carrier to an Iraqi soldier?

[DonutsDealer]

JosephDucreux wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Yeah Ash's comment about aliens made me facepalm.

Yes Ash you apparently are the only one with brains on the ship. Anderson, Udina and Shepard apparently didn't even think about that before you opened your mouth. Obviously.

And there's no way Anderson isn't aware that Garrus and Wrex are on the ship seeing as Shep can be running around with them by his side.

I would've liked a "Well no Ash. Clearly I didn't even think of the risks before you brought it up! Clearly I just invited them along without even thinking about it!" Ah sarcasm.

Would you let a U.S. soldier invite and give a guided tour aboard a nuke carrier to an Iraqi soldier?

Even when Anderson knows about them and Udina tells you to take them with you? Sure.

[Dariustwinblade]

Beyond Stupid Analogy. As the president, and both your superior officer excepts them.

Heck THE COUNCIL tell you to take care of Liara and keep her safe.

When UN leaders, your country's presidents and Generals and Commander accept Aliens/foreigner.

And still you are doubting them then you are not being cautious. You are insulting you superiors.

[Ryzaki]

JosephDucreux wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Yeah Ash's comment about aliens made me facepalm.

Yes Ash you apparently are the only one with brains on the ship. Anderson, Udina and Shepard apparently didn't even think about that before you opened your mouth. Obviously.

And there's no way Anderson isn't aware that Garrus and Wrex are on the ship seeing as Shep can be running around with them by his side.

I would've liked a "Well no Ash. Clearly I didn't even think of the risks before you brought it up! Clearly I just invited them along without even thinking about it!" Ah sarcasm.

Would you let a U.S. soldier invite and give a guided tour aboard a nuke carrier to an Iraqi soldier?

That analogy fails on multiple levels.

A. The Normandy was codeveloped by the turians
B. Said soldiers are invited along to help catch a rogue Spectre who is endangering EVERYONE. Not just humans.
C. Garrus isn't an Iraqi soldier. He's a cop of an organization that employs multiple species (including humans). Wrex is a merc, Tali is a lone quarian.

Regardless if that Iraqi soldier just gave me intel about how to dethrone and hunt down a renowned terrorist leader and I was hot on his trail? Hell yes. Especially when my superior either encourages it (or led me to him) or doesn't care.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 décembre 2011 - 06:03 .

[priestess of blood]

Wonders what kind of women (if any for that matter) that the OP is around to call Ash unfeminine. brutish and butch

Modifié par priestess of blood, 27 décembre 2011 - 05:12 .

[CptData]

jreezy wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

Far too many people on this forum lock on to the popular opinion without bothering to form their own. They get a negative picture of a character in their heads, and will not allow anyone else to alter that.

This is true, sadly.

Since this is true, it needs another quote.

Seriously - it happenes to everyone. I once had a co-worker I simply couldn't stand because of other people's opinion. It took full two months and frequent contact to that dude to find out he wasn't that bad but simply got the rest of the guys on the wrong side at the beginning.

It does happen. Sure, you can say "I don't like Ashley / Tali / Garrus / Liara because of reasons" ... but you should dislike those characters because of own experience, not because of other people's opinions.

I dunno who it was, but there was a guy who gave me a really good answer why he hates Ashley. It was a decently written posting somewhere in BSN ... and I accepted this answer, because it was his own opinion.