190 réponses à ce sujet

[Bad King]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Drone223 wrote...

strive wrote...

They do. TIM even says curing the Krogan would be good for the Reaper war.

*looks at Sur'Kesh demo* I think that's changed now

Yeah, that's called "bad writing", much like Cerberus becoming a superpower after having been nearly bankrupted by Normandy/Lazarus and severely weakened by the Turian attack in Retribution.

Fortunately, Cerberus hasn't been portrayed as a superpower in ME3, from the demos or spoilers.

Exageratedly large? Yes. But the real muscle comes from the Reapers, with the Cerberus troops just being small strike forces.

The N7 Ops website does imply that Cerberus is a rapidly expanding threat to the galaxy:

"Cerberus, once comprised of small, covert cells of agents, is now a burgeoning and unconcealed threat to the galaxy."  
-- From the Cerberus Centurion description.

Though it's possible that they've only become a threat due to the weakening of the galaxy in the face of the reaper invasion, rather than them being a superpower.

Modifié par Bad King, 22 décembre 2011 - 03:01 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Bad King wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Drone223 wrote...

strive wrote...

They do. TIM even says curing the Krogan would be good for the Reaper war.

*looks at Sur'Kesh demo* I think that's changed now

Yeah, that's called "bad writing", much like Cerberus becoming a superpower after having been nearly bankrupted by Normandy/Lazarus and severely weakened by the Turian attack in Retribution.

Fortunately, Cerberus hasn't been portrayed as a superpower in ME3, from the demos or spoilers.

Exageratedly large? Yes. But the real muscle comes from the Reapers, with the Cerberus troops just being small strike forces.

The N7 Ops website does imply that Cerberus is a rapidly expanding threat to the galaxy:

"Cerberus, once comprised of small, covert cells of agents, is now a burgeoning and unconcealed threat to the galaxy."   -- From the Cerberus Centurion description.

Though it's possible that they've only become a threat due to the weakening of the galaxy in the face of the reaper invasion.

That's precisly why they're a threat.

They're bigger than was thought, but they aren't overwhelming in their own right. They have an army... but they still couldn't overwhelm any significant species on their own as it stands. They're opportunists with more strength than anyone could predict.

[crimzontearz]

what Cerberus needs is the comic villain of the year award

[Bad King]

crimzontearz wrote...

what Cerberus needs is the comic villain of the year award

As of ME3 that certainly seems to be true.

[crimzontearz]

even as of ME2 really

[Dean_the_Young]

Besides the fact that in ME2 their institutional villainy was rare and limited, while their public goods significant.

[PauseforEffect]

[quote]Bleachrude wrote...

 What Cerebus needs is its equivalent among the other races...I don't mean, "a Cerebus for the aliens" but a cerebus style organization for the turians, salarians etc.
For example, how about that asari mother we meet in Illium decides to start an "only asari should be in space" - (I like the fact that in her grief she didn't focus on JUST humans but frankly, ALL "aliens").


Miranda did point out that it that Cerberus was to humans as the STG was to Salarians and the commandoes to the Asari.
In the LOTSB records, there is an account of an influential Asari Matriarch who was convinced of her race's innate superiority over all the other races because of their natural biotic abilities. Cerberus discredited her after nailing her with a biotic inhibiting drug, causing her biotics to fail during a demonstration.
Of course, they developed it from experiments on kidnapped asari and later used it on Jack during the Pragia experiments.


Similarly, how about Facinus actually gets smart and not just bomb its own people for no discernible reason?


Now that would actually make Cerberus more controversial instead of becoming the punching bag for a lot of jokes. Hey, how many Cerberus agents does it take to screw in a lightbulb? The same amount it takes to screw over an experiment.


The problem I think for cerebus in the eyes of many is that it is a pro-human group in an universe where frankly, there's pretty much no anti-human bias...frankly, it makes them look like dicks who are shouting "humans on top" when none of the other alien races are saying "humans on bottom"


Am surprised no one made a joke about this last comment. Then again, I'm too tired to read the entire thread, so if I'm just parroting someone else's comment, then ignore.

[Arkitekt]

Yes, although Cerberus really puts the effort somewhat off the charts...

[Swampthing500]

Do other races show a propensity to experiment with dangerous creatures, diseases or technology with minimal to zero safeguards?

Do other races start research groups with no oversight, ethical guidelines or accountabilty, combined with extensive funding and almost dictatorial personal control?

Do other races kill members of their civilization for the flimsiest of reasons (if there are any!) and consider every person expendable the moment an error message appears on their vid-screens?

If so, Cerberus is perfect for them!

Modifié par Swampthing500, 23 décembre 2011 - 12:36 .

[Arkitekt]

Swampthing500 wrote...

Do other races show a propensity to experiment with dangerous creatures, diseases or technology with minimal to zero safeguards?

Ever heard of the Rachni wars? The Krogan rebellion?

Guess not.

Do other races start research groups with no oversight, ethical guidelines or accountabilty, combined with extensive funding and almost dictatorial personal control?

Are you even aware of Mass Effect lore, or just trolling?

Do other races kill members of their civilization for the flimsiest of reasons (if there are any!) and consider every person expendable the moment an error message appears on their vid-screens?

This one I don't know what you are talking about. What is it?

[Arkitekt]

Now I'm really at a loss. Cerberus debriefings are merely pragmatic in their thoughts, and I do not recall references to "error messages".... but my memory is not the best stuff out there.

[mauro2222]

Arkitekt wrote...

Swampthing500 wrote...

Do other races show a propensity to experiment with dangerous creatures, diseases or technology with minimal to zero safeguards?

Ever heard of the Rachni wars? The Krogan rebellion?

Guess not.

Propensity.

The Rachni wars were from reaper influence.

The Krogan rebellion: the fault were of the salarians. They uplifted to galactic stage, a species who could barely live their lifespan without killing 200 of their own kind. The genophage was the only option, that or extiction.

[Arkitekt]

Of course the fault were of the salarians, who happen to have the curious characteristic of not being human. Then, the genophage was the only solution, sure. Still, that's quite the resumé of a species that has not the "propensity" (whatever the hell you mean by that) to mess up with stuff.

And of course, there's the whole reaper artifact stories, whose main interested were not amongst humans. At least, last time I heard, Saren was not a human being.

[mauro2222]

Arkitekt wrote...

Of course the fault were of the salarians, who happen to have the curious characteristic of not being human. Then, the genophage was the only solution, sure. Still, that's quite the resumé of a species that has not the "propensity" (whatever the hell you mean by that) to mess up with stuff.

Ok... you lost me here. What?

Arkitekt wrote...

And of course, there's the whole reaper artifact stories, whose main interested were not amongst humans. At least, last time I heard, Saren was not a human being.

We have been out there for just 60 years...

[Arkitekt]

Relax, Luc0s, kids still have a lot to learn about life.

[Arkitekt]

[quote]mauro2222 wrote...

[quote]Arkitekt wrote...

Of course the fault were of the salarians, who happen to have the curious characteristic of not being human. Then, the genophage was the only solution, sure. Still, that's quite the resumé of a species that has not the "propensity" (whatever the hell you mean by that) to mess up with stuff.
[/quote]

Ok... you lost me here. What?[/quote]

You are saying that humans (cerberus, wtv) are "different" because we have the "propensity" to make these kinds of mess ups. Clearly, the Krogan mess is an excellent counter-example to that lie. Implying that it is not so, because it is only "one" example fails to acknowledge the simple fact that the Krogan solution to the Rachni problem may well not have been the only "solution" that they came up with. It is indeed quite likely that many "mess ups" were made before that solution came into being, such is the nature of discovery.

So you are proven wrong on that account. But there's more.

[quote][quote]Arkitekt wrote...

And of course, there's the whole reaper artifact stories, whose main interested were not amongst humans. At least, last time I heard, Saren was not a human being.[/quote]

We have been out there for just 60 years...

[/quote][/quote]

So what? For the thousands of years that the Asari were in the mainstream, did they have to face the overwhelming nature of the Reapers? It's easy not to mess stuff up when you are not challenged by Ctuluh monsters for thousands of years, you know.

[mauro2222]

Arkitekt wrote...


You
are saying that humans (cerberus, wtv) are "different" because we have
the "propensity" to make these kinds of mess ups. Clearly, the Krogan
mess is an excellent counter-example to that lie. Implying that it is
not so, because it is only "one" example fails to acknowledge the simple
fact that the Krogan solution to the Rachni problem may well not have
been the only "solution" that they came up with. It is indeed quite
likely that many "mess ups" were made before that solution came into
being, such is the nature of discovery.

So you are proven wrong on that account. But there's more.

They are different because, those "experiments" that Cerberus does are to achieve power.

Arkitekt wrote...

So what? For the thousands of years that the Asari were in the mainstream, did they have to face the overwhelming nature of the Reapers? It's easy not to mess stuff up when you are not challenged by Ctuluh monsters for thousands of years, you know.

Rachni, Krogans? What? they suddenly dissapeared of your point of view?

[Lotion Soronarr]

mauro2222 wrote...
They are different because, those "experiments" that Cerberus does are to achieve power.

Power for humanity.
Which is no different than what the Council does. They want to mantain their power.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Arcian wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Well, technicly there already are similar groups..

STG, Specter and others...we seen the other races involved in very shady and immoral things for the good of their races... and implied to be involved in more.

Of course, I bet half of it will be retconned in ME3.

I honestly don't know what's worse - you insane Cerberus bootlickers who have wet dreams about riding TIM's meatstick while he burns down the galaxy around you, or the darkside kiddies in TOR who thinks it's supercool to be evil and kill people to the right and left just because it gives them a f***ed up visual appearance and allows them to use red lightsaber crystals.

I can tell you what's worse. Dellusional nitwits that have irrational and unsupported fears that "TIM will burn the galaxy for s*** and giggles" and a equally unsupported fantasy that we can take on the reapers as-is.
Despite all theevidence to the contrary.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 23 décembre 2011 - 04:36 .

[Arkitekt]

mauro2222 wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...


You
are saying that humans (cerberus, wtv) are "different" because we have
the "propensity" to make these kinds of mess ups. Clearly, the Krogan
mess is an excellent counter-example to that lie. Implying that it is
not so, because it is only "one" example fails to acknowledge the simple
fact that the Krogan solution to the Rachni problem may well not have
been the only "solution" that they came up with. It is indeed quite
likely that many "mess ups" were made before that solution came into
being, such is the nature of discovery.

So you are proven wrong on that account. But there's more.

They are different because, those "experiments" that Cerberus does are to achieve power.

Untrue. TIM established Cerberus in the first place to confront himself with the source of the great power that was hinted at when he found the reaper artifact. His reasoning has been ever since to pull humanity above itself so it could be prepared to confront all these darkness that lie ahead. He did guess the presence of the Reapers correctly.

Arkitekt wrote...

So what? For the thousands of years that the Asari were in the mainstream, did they have to face the overwhelming nature of the Reapers? It's easy not to mess stuff up when you are not challenged by Ctuluh monsters for thousands of years, you know.

Rachni, Krogans? What? they suddenly dissapeared of your point of view?

Are you actually comparing the Krogan with the Reapers? Is this conversation still sane?


And, are you actually bringing the exact episode on their history that made them mess up their experimentation badly?

Modifié par Arkitekt, 23 décembre 2011 - 04:42 .