190 réponses à ce sujet

[Swampthing500]

Arkitekt wrote...

Swampthing500 wrote...

Do other races show a propensity to experiment with dangerous creatures, diseases or technology with minimal to zero safeguards?

Ever heard of the Rachni wars? The Krogan rebellion?

Guess not.

Do other races start research groups with no oversight, ethical guidelines or accountabilty, combined with extensive funding and almost dictatorial personal control?

Are you even aware of Mass Effect lore, or just trolling?

Do other races kill members of their civilization for the flimsiest of reasons (if there are any!) and consider every person expendable the moment an error message appears on their vid-screens?

This one I don't know what you are talking about. What is it?

1: None of the ever races experimented on the Rachni, and the Krogan were not an experiment. They were uplifted, but proved they could not coexist with other races. Hardly equivalent to finding group of husks and then poking them (or releasing Adjundants)

2: The STG and Spectres do have a lot of independence, but are under the authority of governments which can still review their progress. Cerberus seems to just let some mad scientist experiment with forbidden technology, only worrying when they stop "recieving transmissions

3: For a group that is intent on protecting and advancing humanity, they sure as hell are not shy about experimenting on innocent people, killing them when they become a liability (Grayson) and luring Marines to be killed by thresher maws.

Modifié par Swampthing500, 23 décembre 2011 - 05:01 .

[Swampthing500]

Also, after the screw up with the Krogan, the Citadel races put in place protocols to ensure it never happened again. Look at how they isolated the Yahg.

Cerebus? They do the same stupid **** over and over!

Modifié par Swampthing500, 23 décembre 2011 - 05:04 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Swampthing500 wrote...

Also, after the screw up with the Krogan, the Citadel races put in place protocols to ensure it never happened again. Look at how they isolated the Yahg.

Cerberus? They do the same stupid **** over and over!

[spoilers]



[/spoilers]

[Swampthing500]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Swampthing500 wrote...

Also, after the screw up with the Krogan, the Citadel races put in place protocols to ensure it never happened again. Look at how they isolated the Yahg.

Cerberus? They do the same stupid **** over and over!

[spoilers]



[/spoilers]

Lair of the Shaow Broker is a year and half in age. There are expiration dates on spoilers!

[Arkitekt]

Swampthing500 wrote...

1: None of the ever races experimented on the Rachni, and the Krogan were not an experiment. They were uplifted, but proved they could not coexist with other races. Hardly equivalent to finding group of husks and then poking them (or releasing Adjundants)

The Krogan uplifting was not an experiment? If not, it was worse than an experiment, it was a blind act of faith without any previous test experiments. At least when you experiment and the poop goes badly you can circumscribe the problem in, say, a laboratory, and the deaths will be minimized to the dozens.

Can we really compare that with the death toll of the Krogan rebellions? The further this conversation goes, the worse the case really gets for you. Ragequit while you still can .

2: The STG and Spectres do have a lot of independence, but are under the authority of governments which can still review their progress. Cerberus seems to just let some mad scientist experiment with forbidden technology, only worrying when they stop "recieving transmissions

Uncalled for. Most Cerberus groups have to report to TIM, and the reports will tell if the experiment is to go on or not. Most cells that went wrong were quite worried that the experiment was about to be terminated. And rightly so.

3: For a group that is intent on protecting and advancing humanity, they sure as hell are not shy about experimenting on innocent people, killing them when they become a liability (Grayson) and luring Marines to be killed by thresher maws.

You are equating the leaf with the forest, and that's why people normally do not understand "Renegadian" logic, they fail to have a sense of proportion. I do understand it well and I do not agree with it, but at least I do not make these silly arguments you seem to be doing. Small experiments have invaluable data about the subject they are trying to understand, and while the deaths are unfortunate, they are not even comparable to the debacle that the Salarians got the Galaxy into for example.

It is the kind of experiments like these that enabled, for instance, mankind to have biotics on their ranks.

Modifié par Arkitekt, 23 décembre 2011 - 05:23 .

[Swampthing500]

Arkitekt wrote...

Swampthing500 wrote...

1: None of the ever races experimented on the Rachni, and the Krogan were not an experiment. They were uplifted, but proved they could not coexist with other races. Hardly equivalent to finding group of husks and then poking them (or releasing Adjundants)

The Krogan uplifting was not an experiment? If not, it was worse than an experiment, it was a blind act of faith without any previous test experiments. At least when you experiment and the poop goes badly you can circumscribe the problem in, say, a laboratory, and the deaths will be minimized to the dozens.

Can we really compare that with the death toll of the Krogan rebellions? The further this conversation goes, the worse the case really gets for you. Ragequit while you still can .

2: The STG and Spectres do have a lot of independence, but are under the authority of governments which can still review their progress. Cerberus seems to just let some mad scientist experiment with forbidden technology, only worrying when they stop "recieving transmissions

Uncalled for. Most Cerberus groups have to report to TIM, and the reports will tell if the experiment is to go on or not. Most cells that went wrong were quite worried that the experiment was about to be terminated. And rightly so.

3: For a group that is intent on protecting and advancing humanity, they sure as hell are not shy about experimenting on innocent people, killing them when they become a liability (Grayson) and luring Marines to be killed by thresher maws.

You are equating the leaf with the forest, and that's why people normally do not understand "Renegadian" logic, they fail to have a sense of proportion. I do understand it well and I do not agree with it, but at least I do not make these silly arguments you seem to be doing. Small experiments have invaluable data about the subject they are trying to understand, and while the deaths are unfortunate, they are not even comparable to the debacle that the Salarians got the Galaxy into for example.

It is the kind of experiments like these that enabled, for instance, mankind to have biotics on their ranks.

1: The Korgan were an emergency means of defeating the Rachni, an act of desperation. Cerberus basically says "Okay, maybe Reaper tech won't indoctrinate us this time!". Additionally, the Krogan are sentient beings who were rewarded for their service. There is no analogy.

2: The experiments do go on. Then the research teams get huskified, wiped out by Rachni, indoctrinated or killed. It seems a habit of Cerberus to go "Lol, let's see what happens!"

A list of their experiments include:

Rachni being studied, and then escaping (multiple times)

Pragia research facility: riot and escape

Project Overlord

The inert Reaper

Paul Grayson

The Adjundants.

When the number of failed Cerberus experiments in ME go past four, you know there is immense stupidity at work.

3: And those experiments that allowed humans to have biotics? I am sure the repeatedly tortured and executed subjects would argue otherwise.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Swampthing500 wrote...

1: The Korgan were an emergency means of defeating the Rachni, an act of desperation. Cerberus basically says "Okay, maybe Reaper tech won't indoctrinate us this time!". Additionally, the Krogan are sentient beings who were rewarded for their service. There is no analogy.

Cerberus experiments are also an act of despearation, the emergency means for defeating the reapers. Why doi you think TIM is doing all this stuff? Because he knows the reapers are coming.

[Swampthing500]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Swampthing500 wrote...

1: The Korgan were an emergency means of defeating the Rachni, an act of desperation. Cerberus basically says "Okay, maybe Reaper tech won't indoctrinate us this time!". Additionally, the Krogan are sentient beings who were rewarded for their service. There is no analogy.

Cerberus experiments are also an act of despearation, the emergency means for defeating the reapers. Why doi you think TIM is doing all this stuff? Because he knows the reapers are coming.

Except that at least half the experiments I quoted took place during or before ME1 meaning Cerberus was just doing this stuff way before the Reapers were discovered.

Either Cerberus is completely indifferent to casualties and safety, or they are the most dull-witted secret organization ever conceived.

Once would be a mistake.

Twice would be seen as purposely negligent.

Three times or more makes you wonder if TIM just does it for sadistic amusement.

[Dean_the_Young]

Swampthing500 wrote...

Except that at least half the experiments I quoted took place during or before ME1 meaning Cerberus was just doing this stuff way before the Reapers were discovered.

Never read the TIM comic, I take it?

Either Cerberus is completely indifferent to casualties and safety, or they are the most dull-witted secret organization ever conceived.

Once would be a mistake.

Twice would be seen as purposely negligent.

Three times or more makes you wonder if TIM just does it for sadistic amusement.

Besides the false delimma, where has Cerberus had the same failure twice?

When two things break for different reasons, it's more than a little misleading to say their failures were equivalent.

[Swampthing500]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Swampthing500 wrote...

Except that at least half the experiments I quoted took place during or before ME1 meaning Cerberus was just doing this stuff way before the Reapers were discovered.

Never read the TIM comic, I take it?

Either Cerberus is completely indifferent to casualties and safety, or they are the most dull-witted secret organization ever conceived.

Once would be a mistake.

Twice would be seen as purposely negligent.

Three times or more makes you wonder if TIM just does it for sadistic amusement.

Besides the false delimma, where has Cerberus had the same failure twice?

When two things break for different reasons, it's more than a little misleading to say their failures were equivalent.

Yet Cerberus does nothing to stop the pattern: find tech/creature/relic/subject, experiment, backfire.

Hell, it seems they cannot even recognize the pattern and go 'Hey, you know what, we really need to institute some protocols here or give our cells more oversight!"

Their cartoonish villainy is only matched by Weyland-Yutani.

Modifié par Swampthing500, 23 décembre 2011 - 06:13 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Swampthing500 wrote...

Yet Cerberus does nothing to stop the pattern: find tech/creature/relic/subject, experiment, backfire.

This is like blasting doctors for failing to cure death. Find the patient, attempt medicine, people die.

That's so broad as to be meaningless.

Hell, it seems they cannot even recognize the pattern and go 'Hey, you know what, we really need to institute some protocols here or give our cells more oversight!"

How many projects have you seen blow up in their faces, and how many cells has Cerberus ever had?

Their cartoonish villainy is only matched by Weyland-Yutani.

Not really.

[Arkitekt]

Swampthing500 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Swampthing500 wrote...

1: The Korgan were an emergency means of defeating the Rachni, an act of desperation. Cerberus basically says "Okay, maybe Reaper tech won't indoctrinate us this time!". Additionally, the Krogan are sentient beings who were rewarded for their service. There is no analogy.

Cerberus experiments are also an act of despearation, the emergency means for defeating the reapers. Why doi you think TIM is doing all this stuff? Because he knows the reapers are coming.

Except that at least half the experiments I quoted took place during or before ME1 meaning Cerberus was just doing this stuff way before the Reapers were discovered.

Either Cerberus is completely indifferent to casualties and safety, or they are the most dull-witted secret organization ever conceived.

Once would be a mistake.

Twice would be seen as purposely negligent.

Three times or more makes you wonder if TIM just does it for sadistic amusement.

I know you really want to believe in this fantasy of yours pretty badly, but unfortunately it's not accurate. As I said previously and you discarded as if the argument does not exist, TIM is aware of the Reaper's threat long before ME1's events.

[Arkitekt]

Swampthing500 wrote...

3: And those experiments that allowed humans to have biotics? I am sure the repeatedly tortured and executed subjects would argue otherwise.

The unpleasantness of facts do not stop them for being so. Please stick to logical thinking, if you are capable of.

[crimzontearz]

uhm......does this thread have a point still?

[Arkitekt]

Lots of points.

Exclamation points.

And words.

Lots.

[crimzontearz]

translation......no