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[Wolf]

I read this thread a few minutes ago that was unfortunately locked (albeit with good reason) by our moderator JohnEpler. It pertains to some information revealed at PAX by Mike Laidlaw about follower customization. As such I would like to revive it here so I can know what are people's opinions and feeling toward it. Also, please be respectful to other BSN members as I would like this thread to flourish and not be buried.

Oh, and read this first:social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/315/index/8221908. 

I am particularly excited about having the outfits and armor be worn at the same time and sort-of "mixing".

[RenaissanceDweeb]

That's a nice idea. Something to give them their own unique look and feel but you'll still be in control of what outfit they wear. As long as Varric is there and gets to keep his chest hair proudly on display this will be amazing. I mean, what? Sorry, my inner fangirl was showing.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

I'm ok with the new version. It doesn't result in stupid looking cut scenese, it prevents companions from looking like morons in general, and it give the min/max crowd something to do. It's a good compromise and I'm looking forward to trying it out.

[Wolf]

What I found most interesting, gameplay wise, was that although they will implement something like this, armor may actually be visible ALONG with the unique look outfit, I am really excited about this.

[Wolf]

RenaissanceDweeb wrote...

That's a nice idea. Something to give them their own unique look and feel but you'll still be in control of what outfit they wear. As long as Varric is there and gets to keep his chest hair proudly on display this will be amazing. I mean, what? Sorry, my inner fangirl was showing.

Ha, that made me giggle.

[Realmzmaster]

What is laid out by Mike Laidlaw is a good compromise. It allows the gamer to customize their companions and not eat up a ton of resources having to model each different piece of equipment on the companions. The armor will affect the actual stats just not the actual appearance.

The idea of having base armor like base weapons and equipment is good for those who are there for the story and plot. They can simply press level up and their characters will level and the equipment also.

There could be some who disagree because the change in equipment will not show visually except for maybe weapons and shields, but it is a workable compromise.

Mr. Laidlaw also states that companion's look will change visually over time. So the point of character's wearing the same thing over a long period of time will be removed.

[Finnian Valko]

I like the idea as well. It gives the player control without compromising the character's visual identity.

[bEVEsthda]

I totally hate it. It breaks immersion. It's abstract and symbolic rather than tangible. Moving DA2 yet another step into a drivel push-the-button-console anime game, which is the brilliant plan I gather. The character's visuals should be under player control and also correspond to and give visual clues about what is worn.
This **** attitude belongs in an old scrolling shooter or platformer, not in a modern RPG.

P.S. Big reason behind my bad attitude to this, is that I disagree about all that "iconic look" and "identity" philosophy. It's not the mindset with how you should approach the design of  a party-cRPG, in my opinion. There's something fundamentally wrong going on.

Modifié par bEVEsthda, 21 décembre 2011 - 09:35 .

[andar91]

I loved this idea then and I still love it now. I realize it's largely pointless, but I always love messing around with outfits in games. I just wish the player character had such options like selecting the skin of an armor you're wearing. Cuz I hate dresses and love mage pants.

[bEVEsthda]

andar91 wrote...

I loved this idea then and I still love it now. I realize it's largely pointless, but I always love messing around with outfits in games. I just wish the player character had such options like selecting the skin of an armor you're wearing. Cuz I hate dresses and love mage pants.

??? But that's what you DON'T get to do. It's just the stats. The visuals remain the same. Those developer chosen, the "iconic".

[andar91]

bEVEsthda wrote...

andar91 wrote...

I loved this idea then and I still love it now. I realize it's largely pointless, but I always love messing around with outfits in games. I just wish the player character had such options like selecting the skin of an armor you're wearing. Cuz I hate dresses and love mage pants.

??? But that's what you DON'T get to do. It's just the stats. The visuals remain the same. Those developer chosen, the "iconic".

Mike mentioned being able to switch between various iconic appearances. That's what I meant. If I liked a particular look, I can switch to it (granted, this hasn't been confirmed officially but he seemed pretty sure). For example, I could, at some point, choose between Bethany's original outfit or grey warden robes in a DA2 context.

[Icinix]

Its better.

But maybe I'm missing something a little - but does that mean if I drop a huge heavy dwarven armour chest piece into a slot will give a character those bonuses, but not change their appearance in anyway? In which case, why not remove the armour slots completely so we can sell those pieces, but introduce a smithing / crafting system that allows the player to adjust the stats on each of the unique appearances a character has.

So you go to a smith or whatever, scroll down your list of followers, scroll across to the apperance you want - buy appropriate skills. So you can have say two suits for Isabella, both iconic, but one is a very heavy armour, magic resistance set and another is a very stealth, fast skill recharge style? - It can still level up with the character, but that way if you know you're going to tackle a narrow long cave that is brimming with mages, you'll have just the suit to equip your follower in.

The whole armour equipment slots just seem a little - pointless if there is no visible change, and in fact you're going to have people having to micromanage equipment on characters that has no actual visible recognition system.

[Wolf]

bEVEsthda wrote...

I totally hate it. It breaks immersion. It's abstract and symbolic rather than tangible. Moving DA2 yet another step into a drivel push-the-button-console anime game, which is the brilliant plan I gather. The character's visuals should be under player control and also correspond to and give visual clues about what is worn.
This **** attitude belongs in an old scrolling shooter or platformer, not in a modern RPG.

P.S. Big reason behind my bad attitude to this, is that I disagree about all that "iconic look" and "identity" philosophy. It's not the mindset with how you should approach the design of  a party-cRPG, in my opinion. There's something fundamentally wrong going on.

You didn't seem to read the part where he mentions that they are experimenting with having the outfit AND the armor at the same time. And besides, if you can have what you love and others can too what is the problem?

Also, I didn't know there was a specific mindset you need when playing a party-based cRPG. <_<

Modifié par Gaiden96, 21 décembre 2011 - 09:56 .

[Realmzmaster]

Icinix wrote...

Its better.

But maybe I'm missing something a little - but does that mean if I drop a huge heavy dwarven armour chest piece into a slot will give a character those bonuses, but not change their appearance in anyway? In which case, why not remove the armour slots completely so we can sell those pieces, but introduce a smithing / crafting system that allows the player to adjust the stats on each of the unique appearances a character has.

So you go to a smith or whatever, scroll down your list of followers, scroll across to the apperance you want - buy appropriate skills. So you can have say two suits for Isabella, both iconic, but one is a very heavy armour, magic resistance set and another is a very stealth, fast skill recharge style? - It can still level up with the character, but that way if you know you're going to tackle a narrow long cave that is brimming with mages, you'll have just the suit to equip your follower in.

The whole armour equipment slots just seem a little - pointless if there is no visible change, and in fact you're going to have people having to micromanage equipment on characters that has no actual visible recognition system.

Because it does not allow gamers who find that piece of armor that Hawke does not need to give it to Isabela. The way Mr. Laidlaw describes it, since Isabela have a free armor slot you can give her the heavy armor that was found. It simply would have no visual effect.

Many gamers are upset because they find a new piece of armor and put it on Hawke and want to use the old piece on another companion. This way it can be done, but no visual effect.

[Realmzmaster]

Gaiden96 wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...

I totally hate it. It breaks immersion. It's abstract and symbolic rather than tangible. Moving DA2 yet another step into a drivel push-the-button-console anime game, which is the brilliant plan I gather. The character's visuals should be under player control and also correspond to and give visual clues about what is worn.
This **** attitude belongs in an old scrolling shooter or platformer, not in a modern RPG.

P.S. Big reason behind my bad attitude to this, is that I disagree about all that "iconic look" and "identity" philosophy. It's not the mindset with how you should approach the design of  a party-cRPG, in my opinion. There's something fundamentally wrong going on.

You didn't seem to read the part where he mentions that they are experimenting with having the outfit AND the armor at the same time. And besides, if you can have what you love and others can too what is the problem?

Also, I didn't know there was a specific mindset you need when playing a party-based cRPG. <_<

He a little upset because it will have no visual effect. It will only affect the stats. The only time he could see the armor visually is if you put it on Hawke. It is a compromise which is different from DAO where you put a piece of armor on a companion and see the visual representation.

[DiegoRaphael]

For me the best way would be that every armor would fit in a different way following that companion style.

For exemple, imagine we put the Armor of Sentinel (DA:Awakening) on Hawke, it would like this:



But on Aveline, the colour scheme would change to the ones of the Guard.

On Fenris id would also adapt, lets say mantaining the chest part, making the shoulders a little different, leaving the arms more freely to show his marks and so on.

An robe on Merris would have a more Dalish looks than the same robe on Bethany.

On Isabela, every single armor would be extremely sexy, aways a skirt, cleavage, and could even always be on the same white/blue colour, wouldn't mind (same for everyone).

This is a harder way? For sure it is, but is also (for me) a very cool one.

Another way could be that everyone has an standart outfit (as it if right now), and on every armor added, that look would improve, like that skirt on Isabela would gain some detailed on it, or the armor piece on Morrigan shoulder/arm would gain more feathers and other stuff with every new (and better) glove, and so on till its final appearance.

I hope I have succeeded in explaining what I wanted
PS: sry for any misspelled, english is not my first language...

[Icinix]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Its better.

But maybe I'm missing something a little - but does that mean if I drop a huge heavy dwarven armour chest piece into a slot will give a character those bonuses, but not change their appearance in anyway? In which case, why not remove the armour slots completely so we can sell those pieces, but introduce a smithing / crafting system that allows the player to adjust the stats on each of the unique appearances a character has.

So you go to a smith or whatever, scroll down your list of followers, scroll across to the apperance you want - buy appropriate skills. So you can have say two suits for Isabella, both iconic, but one is a very heavy armour, magic resistance set and another is a very stealth, fast skill recharge style? - It can still level up with the character, but that way if you know you're going to tackle a narrow long cave that is brimming with mages, you'll have just the suit to equip your follower in.

The whole armour equipment slots just seem a little - pointless if there is no visible change, and in fact you're going to have people having to micromanage equipment on characters that has no actual visible recognition system.

Because it does not allow gamers who find that piece of armor that Hawke does not need to give it to Isabela. The way Mr. Laidlaw describes it, since Isabela have a free armor slot you can give her the heavy armor that was found. It simply would have no visual effect.

Many gamers are upset because they find a new piece of armor and put it on Hawke and want to use the old piece on another companion. This way it can be done, but no visual effect.

Yeah - but DA2 had an incredible amount of pointless generic armour and loot. If the whole armour / loot system was redesigned it would be a non-issue.

I think its still a better idea, but neither here nor there and on paper may look good - but during the game, I don't know. I think it will become a little tedious - and doesn't solve the overall problem that caused the naked followers in the DAO camp.

[Realmzmaster]

@DiegoRaphael,

Your idea is cool. The amount of resources it would consume would be a big consideration. Basically you are talking about the way it was done in DAO. It is a resource hungry approach. Sometime may have to be left out to achieve that result (like a voiced PC which I am sure some will not mind or a reduction in quests).

[DiegoRaphael]

Realmzmaster wrote...

@DiegoRaphael,

Your idea is cool. The amount of resources it would consume would be a big consideration. Basically you are talking about the way it was done in DAO. It is a resource hungry approach. Sometime may have to be left out to achieve that result (like a voiced PC which I am sure some will not mind or a reduction in quests).

I dont think it is the same way as DAO, because for exemple the Blood Dragon Armor looked the same, no matter if it was equipped on the Warden, Alistair or Sten. Every armor worked this way on DA:O.

As rude (very rude) exemple of what i was talking about, take Lineage 2 armors.



Not only they look different on every race, but also on gender.

A similar thing could be done on DA companions, but reflectioning their personalities, clans, race, countires  etc...

[Rawgrim]

Why should an armour suddenly magically change it apearance because its worn by an elf or a dwarf instead of a human? It makes no sense.

[andar91]

DiegoRaphael wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

@DiegoRaphael,

Your idea is cool. The amount of resources it would consume would be a big consideration. Basically you are talking about the way it was done in DAO. It is a resource hungry approach. Sometime may have to be left out to achieve that result (like a voiced PC which I am sure some will not mind or a reduction in quests).

I dont think it is the same way as DAO, because for exemple the Blood Dragon Armor looked the same, no matter if it was equipped on the Warden, Alistair or Sten. Every armor worked this way on DA:O.

As rude (very rude) exemple of what i was talking about, take Lineage 2 armors.



Not only they look different on every race, but also on gender.

A similar thing could be done on DA companions, but reflectioning their personalities, clans, race, countires  etc...

I agree that a system like this would be cool, but I don't think it is at all feasable. It would limit the number of armor skins by a ridiculous amount (or so I assume) and is just way too much. I mean, consider just how many variations that would make!

[CuriousArtemis]

I still want MORE control when it comes to dressing and arming my companions. I like the "iconic look" concept, and there's no way they're going to get rid of that, and that's fine.

But I don't understand the point of adding an armor piece to Isabela which changes her stats but not her appearance. And the only way her appearance will change is when we get to a new plot point or we romance her or what have you. And the only appearance is perhaps a color change. (i.e. Anders' coat turning dark blue ... yawn)

I want to be able to shop and buy and pick up companion-specific outfits. Maybe I go to a shop and there's a list of outfits and equipment that has the word "Isabela" under them in red or something, indicating that these items can only be purchased and worn by Isabela.

I want to be able to take Fenris out of his fugly leotard thingy and put him in something cooler and nicer, but yet still "Fenris-only" (which I fully understand they want to do, keep companion armor "special," and I'm okay with that.)

I don't want it to just turn blue or something after I get to Act 3.

[Zanallen]

It could be done, but it would be fairly expensive and time consuming. *Cue someone saying that resources don't concern them because they are the consumer, blah blah*

But yeah, it could be done. It would just most likely result in some other feature being cut or drastically scaled back.

[Zanallen]

Rawgrim wrote...

Why should an armour suddenly magically change it apearance because its worn by an elf or a dwarf instead of a human? It makes no sense.

In that regard, why should the armor magically change size to fit people of different builds without the PC heading over to an armorer and having it refitted?

[Zanallen]

motomotogirl wrote...

I still want MORE control when it comes to dressing and arming my companions. I like the "iconic look" concept, and there's no way they're going to get rid of that, and that's fine.

But I don't understand the point of adding an armor piece to Isabela which changes her stats but not her appearance. And the only way her appearance will change is when we get to a new plot point or we romance her or what have you. And the only appearance is perhaps a color change. (i.e. Anders' coat turning dark blue ... yawn)

I want to be able to shop and buy and pick up companion-specific outfits. Maybe I go to a shop and there's a list of outfits and equipment that has the word "Isabela" under them in red or something, indicating that these items can only be purchased and worn by Isabela.

I want to be able to take Fenris out of his fugly leotard thingy and put him in something cooler and nicer, but yet still "Fenris-only" (which I fully understand they want to do, keep companion armor "special," and I'm okay with that.)

I don't want it to just turn blue or something after I get to Act 3.

Hm...They could have companion specific armor sets. These sets could change the companion's appearance if they wear the whole set or maybe just the body piece. I guess there could be non-specific outfits as well that have no change on their iconic appearance.