60 réponses à ce sujet

[Ponendus]

motomotogirl wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

Ugh, the whole "making everyone bi is stupid" argument is so annoying. It's basically just the OP's opinion. Know what's annoying? Not getting to hit on Alistair because I'm playing a guy. Well dang it, I'm gonna start a whole thread about how annoying that is! *rolls eyes*

Hmmm...now that I think about it...it seems there were less threads complaining about that (not being able to romance Alistair with a guy or Morrigan with a gal) than ones complaining about the 'all bi' thing.

Interesting.

At least it's more of a legitimate complaint.  Imagine if there were a LI who was only romanceable by a same-sex PC!  That would annoy everyone who wanted to het romance him/her.  And it would be a totally legit thing to be pissed about on their part, too.

I actually think being annoyed at such a thing means the game is working well as a roleplaying game. Unrequited love is a common occurence in the real world and in fictional ones. I am all for exclusively straight and exclusively same-sex oriented love interests, or bisexual ones for that matter; the character should be written to just be who they are, in the way that best serves the story. If you pine for someone who is not attracted to your gender, well, that is unfortunate for you but it makes for an interesting roleplay experience if you are the kind of gamer that enjoys that.

Having said that, the 'all-bisexual' idea is an elegant solution to unrequited love, and thus all the complaints surrounding it, but I am not sure I want that to be solved because I don't see it as a problem. But that's just me!

Modifié par Ponendus, 28 décembre 2011 - 06:20 .

[CuriousArtemis]

Ponendus wrote...

Having said that, the 'all-bisexual' idea is an elegant solution to unrequited love, and thus all the complaints surrounding it, but I am not sure I want that to be solved because I don't see it as a problem. But that's just me!

Aww, I can respect that   I'm just the very lovey dovey type who needs her sparkly happy endings and such 

[Ponendus]

motomotogirl wrote...

Ponendus wrote...

Having said that, the 'all-bisexual' idea is an elegant solution to unrequited love, and thus all the complaints surrounding it, but I am not sure I want that to be solved because I don't see it as a problem. But that's just me!

Aww, I can respect that   I'm just the very lovey dovey type who needs her sparkly happy endings and such 

That's an entirely fair point too.

[RampantAndroid]

I think I made the point about how characters shouldn't just be able to be bi, lesbian/gay or straight on a whim. I know ONE person who would go with anyone...that's it. I know TONS of people who are straight and wouldn't have it any other way, and a few gay/lesbian people...

It irked me in DA2.

Also, I think I said it in the thread where people wanted sebastian to be gay,

[ladyshamen]

Been reading this thread since it started. It's an interesting read. I often have wondered about why it's such a big deal, which got me to thinking. The ' all bi ' thing makes sense from BioWare's standpoint. Make everyone happy.Is it realistic? NO. But how many of us have fought a dragon in RL?
How many people were brought up to believe sex is a beautiful thing between consenting adults? And how many think of sex as something dirty, as bad, and for us women, a thing to be endured, but not enjoyed? Thankfully, I fall into the first category. Maybe this is why all the fuss. Just IMO. What I do know is this: I REALLY miss the romance in DA:O!

Modifié par ladyshamen, 28 décembre 2011 - 02:35 .

[jlb524]

Ponendus wrote...

Having said that, the 'all-bisexual' idea is an elegant solution to unrequited love, and thus all the complaints surrounding it, but I am not sure I want that to be solved because I don't see it as a problem. But that's just me!

Not really...these are two separate issues.

Example, see Aveline (and even Varric).

I'm all for them having NPCs that can't be romanced by the protagonist.  

However, given a set of NPCs that are meant to be LIs (typically around four people in Dragon Age) I think it best to have choices for players that want to do a romance.   Plus, if they do the unrequited love thing with LIs it will always be the homosexual PC that's left in the cold as David Gaider has commented that they will not do a s/s-only LI in Dragon Age.

[coldwetn0se]

I know this has been said before (probably many times  ), but  I have never seen the LI's in DA2 as bisexual, but Hawke or PC sexual.  This is a roleplaying game, and as such, I simple use my imagination involving the relationships with both companions (LI or not), and NPC's.  If my female Hawke is straight, gets together with Fenris, then I RP it as Fenris is straight.  If my m!hawke is gay and gets together with Fenris, then for that story, Fenris is gay.  I even have a m!hawke who is most definately bi, who ends up with Isabela; like two peas in a pod, HA!  Point is, by not limiting the LI's based on gender preferences, you open up a lot of RP possibilities while keeping cost in design and story from potentially getting out of hand.  It is like Ladyshamen said, this is not like the real world.  However, we can use our imaginations to make it fit with how we view this world, and how we bring in our own life experiences from the RL to the characters we create and play as. 

Of course, I have no problem with the way LI's were handled in DAO, and if they returned to that, I would "make it work".   

[CuriousArtemis]

coldwetn0se wrote...

I know this has been said before (probably many times  ), but  I have never seen the LI's in DA2 as bisexual, but Hawke or PC sexual.  This is a roleplaying game, and as such, I simple use my imagination involving the relationships with both companions (LI or not), and NPC's.  If my female Hawke is straight, gets together with Fenris, then I RP it as Fenris is straight.  If my m!hawke is gay and gets together with Fenris, then for that story, Fenris is gay.  I even have a m!hawke who is most definately bi, who ends up with Isabela; like two peas in a pod, HA!  Point is, by not limiting the LI's based on gender preferences, you open up a lot of RP possibilities while keeping cost in design and story from potentially getting out of hand.  It is like Ladyshamen said, this is not like the real world.  However, we can use our imaginations to make it fit with how we view this world, and how we bring in our own life experiences from the RL to the characters we create and play as. 

I do the same!!!  Maybe we just have overactive imaginations :innocent: I also imagine Isabela and Merrill hooking up ... I dunno why; I just find them a cute couple.  Also, I wish Hawke were a twin, so I could romance Fenris and Anders simultaneously.  OMG the holiday season has corrupted me; I'm soooo greedy.

But yeah, that's what I do.  It's role-playing ... you build the characters and situations up each time you play; that's why it's an RPG, a very re-playable experience.  Everything is fluid.  You are in control.

[Finnian Valko]

coldwetn0se wrote...

I know this has been said before (probably many times  ), but  I have never seen the LI's in DA2 as bisexual, but Hawke or PC sexual.  This is a roleplaying game, and as such, I simple use my imagination involving the relationships with both companions (LI or not), and NPC's.  If my female Hawke is straight, gets together with Fenris, then I RP it as Fenris is straight.  If my m!hawke is gay and gets together with Fenris, then for that story, Fenris is gay.  I even have a m!hawke who is most definately bi, who ends up with Isabela; like two peas in a pod, HA!  Point is, by not limiting the LI's based on gender preferences, you open up a lot of RP possibilities while keeping cost in design and story from potentially getting out of hand.  It is like Ladyshamen said, this is not like the real world.  However, we can use our imaginations to make it fit with how we view this world, and how we bring in our own life experiences from the RL to the characters we create and play as. 

Of course, I have no problem with the way LI's were handled in DAO, and if they returned to that, I would "make it work".   

You know, I think a member of Bioware actually explained their decision in just that same way. In that regard especially, it does make sense from a design standpoint.

I still feel like the romances in DA2 were really lacking, but as others have pointed out it's probably because there were very few opportunities for conversational interaction, and when there were the conversations were unsatisfying and short.

Modifié par Finnian Valko, 29 décembre 2011 - 03:41 .

[mrs_anomaly]

Finnian Valko wrote...

coldwetn0se wrote...

I know this has been said before (probably many times  ), but  I have never seen the LI's in DA2 as bisexual, but Hawke or PC sexual.  This is a roleplaying game, and as such, I simple use my imagination involving the relationships with both companions (LI or not), and NPC's.  If my female Hawke is straight, gets together with Fenris, then I RP it as Fenris is straight.  If my m!hawke is gay and gets together with Fenris, then for that story, Fenris is gay.  I even have a m!hawke who is most definately bi, who ends up with Isabela; like two peas in a pod, HA!  Point is, by not limiting the LI's based on gender preferences, you open up a lot of RP possibilities while keeping cost in design and story from potentially getting out of hand.  It is like Ladyshamen said, this is not like the real world.  However, we can use our imaginations to make it fit with how we view this world, and how we bring in our own life experiences from the RL to the characters we create and play as. 

Of course, I have no problem with the way LI's were handled in DAO, and if they returned to that, I would "make it work".   

You know, I think a member of Bioware actually explained their decision in just that same way. In that regard especially, it does make sense from a design standpoint.

I still feel like the romances in DA2 were really lacking, but as others have pointed out it's probably because there were very few opportunities for conversational interaction, and when there were the conversations were unsatisfying and short.

Finnian-
I agree with you up to a certain point about the romances lacking but I do wonder (and I do not say this in sarcasm) have you played other games that have better romance options/interaction and character depth? If so I'd like to know what those games are because I'm hooked.
I enjoy Bioware so much because of the narratives and the relationships we're able to have- our friendships and our lovers.  I've seen a ton of criticism about the illusion of choice for both DA2 and ME2 and the games in general but I'd say that I don't play with so much angst regarding that illusion. If anything I just play a POV knowing that some things are out of my hands as an individual in this realm and universe just as they are IRL. I think if people would just step back and take a breath and realize that this is one of the ways Bioware has to cope with all of the choices we can make as players and still make a recognizable canon and fabric of the overall story we'd enjoy playing a lot more. This isn't to say that Bioware has no room to improve because they do- it's just that I think that not enough criticism is offered in the true spirit of offering the perspective of gentle suggestion or helpful thoughts but rather just rants from hell. (not saying that about you this is just what I've noticed regarding criticism and gaming).

[mrs_anomaly]

ladyshamen wrote...

Been reading this thread since it started. It's an interesting read. I often have wondered about why it's such a big deal, which got me to thinking. The ' all bi ' thing makes sense from BioWare's standpoint. Make everyone happy.Is it realistic? NO. But how many of us have fought a dragon in RL?
How many people were brought up to believe sex is a beautiful thing between consenting adults? And how many think of sex as something dirty, as bad, and for us women, a thing to be endured, but not enjoyed? Thankfully, I fall into the first category. Maybe this is why all the fuss. Just IMO. What I do know is this: I REALLY miss the romance in DA:O!

Me TOO. I lovedddd romancing Alistair and all of them whenever I did other play throughs lol .
When I burned out of DA:O play throughs I read hundreds of books to fill the romance void haha!