2008 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Hmm. ... Okay. Say you've got whoever you despise the most on the opposing side. For mage supporters, probably Meredith, maybe Alrik or Karras. Templar supporters, I'm assuming Anders comes in the lead with Quentin and Grace runners up. Hell, maybe Corypheus. So you've got them at your mercy. They regret that they have but one life to give for their cause. How do you make them give it?

I'm fine with killing them in battle. Generally I prefer to set off a Walking Bomb next to them; the timing can be fiddly, but it feels so satisfying when you get it right, especially if you cast it right before the foe dies and it's an instant explosion.

[Lazy Jer]

Rifneno wrote...


You'd be surprised. One of many threads where people actually feel bad for her because of some unverified story about her sister becoming an abomination after she sheltered and hid her for years. Which adds some hilarity to the quest wherein she sends a death squad to murder an unarmed woman for giving her starved and tortured (by her templars) mage cousin a meal and a couch for the night. It's such a shame that Meredith didn't get that kind of treatment when she did so much more for a mage relative. But I digress... unbelievably, a lot of people really did feel for Meredith because of some bad experiences.

I'm pretty sure the story is verified.  I remember hearing something about it due to being more or less a fence-sitter in one of my playthroughs of the game.  It's also in the Wikia page for Dragon Age (which was not rhymed on purpose).

Hmm. ... Okay. Say you've got whoever you despise the most on the opposing side. For mage supporters, probably Meredith, maybe Alrik or Karras. Templar supporters, I'm assuming Anders comes in the lead with Quentin and Grace runners up. Hell, maybe Corypheus. So you've got them at your mercy. They regret that they have but one life to give for their cause. How do you make them give it?

First of all I despise Meredith the most, but Alrik comes in a very close second.  Second of all...eh...I either continually stab her until she stops making the statues move or I continually shoot her until she stops making the statues move.

Modifié par Lazy Jer, 27 février 2012 - 04:55 .

[dragonflight288]

I can't say I hate Meredith because I don't know how much of her zealotry in Act 3 is her own paranoia (templar death squads) and political grabbing (refusing to give the viscount title) as was there in Act 1 (guard telling Hawke that Meredith is the power before we even meet Gamlen) was a result of her own personality or the idol. I like to think the idol expanded on what was already there regarding her personality, but I don't know for sure.

In my mind, she absolutely must be stopped because of said death squads and political power grabbing.

I find that throwing lightening and fireballs, a stream of arrows and a steady flowing river of sword strikes kills her just as well as anything else that's lethal.

[EmperorSahlertz]

I'd tear the spirit of Justice from Anders, and bind it within an amulet. Then I'd use the Rite of Tranquility on Anders to erase him as a person, and hang the amulet with justice inside around the neck of Tranquil Anders. Hopefully, a little piece of Anders would still be inside Justice, and it would writhe in eternal agony at his own fate.

[CrimsonZephyr]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I'd tear the spirit of Justice from Anders, and bind it within an amulet. Then I'd use the Rite of Tranquility on Anders to erase him as a person, and hang the amulet with justice inside around the neck of Tranquil Anders. Hopefully, a little piece of Anders would still be inside Justice, and it would writhe in eternal agony at his own fate.

Seems like a waste of lyrium. Just kill him.

[Wulfram]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I'd tear the spirit of Justice from Anders, and bind it within an amulet. Then I'd use the Rite of Tranquility on Anders to erase him as a person, and hang the amulet with justice inside around the neck of Tranquil Anders. Hopefully, a little piece of Anders would still be inside Justice, and it would writhe in eternal agony at his own fate.

That's the sort of thing which could never ever go wrong

[Rifneno]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I'd tear the spirit of Justice from Anders, and bind it within an amulet. Then I'd use the Rite of Tranquility on Anders to erase him as a person, and hang the amulet with justice inside around the neck of Tranquil Anders. Hopefully, a little piece of Anders would still be inside Justice, and it would writhe in eternal agony at his own fate.

Oh good, a sufficently gruesome one.  Now I can ask the question I'm on about Meredith.  ...  Do you guys think crucifixion, or impalement would give her a better perspective of how munane horrors can equal magical ones?

[CrimsonZephyr]

Rifneno wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I'd tear the spirit of Justice from Anders, and bind it within an amulet. Then I'd use the Rite of Tranquility on Anders to erase him as a person, and hang the amulet with justice inside around the neck of Tranquil Anders. Hopefully, a little piece of Anders would still be inside Justice, and it would writhe in eternal agony at his own fate.

Oh good, a sufficently gruesome one.  Now I can ask the question I'm on about Meredith.  ...  Do you guys think crucifixion, or impalement would give her a better perspective of how munane horrors can equal magical ones?

You could flay her alive and then pour whiskey on her back.

Imagine the stinging.

[Lazy Jer]

Rifneno wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I'd tear the spirit of Justice from Anders, and bind it within an amulet. Then I'd use the Rite of Tranquility on Anders to erase him as a person, and hang the amulet with justice inside around the neck of Tranquil Anders. Hopefully, a little piece of Anders would still be inside Justice, and it would writhe in eternal agony at his own fate.

Oh good, a sufficently gruesome one.  Now I can ask the question I'm on about Meredith.  ...  Do you guys think crucifixion, or impalement would give her a better perspective of how munane horrors can equal magical ones?

Well if I really wanted to make Meredeth suffer I'd make her a judge on American Idol.

[Cody]

I'd kill Meredeth. But I'd keep the rapists Alrik and Karras alive. Just so I can put each of them on an end of the same staff as each end is shoved up their anus. So not only will they feel something dirty and disgusting shoved up their a.ss(the staff would be well used in combat and such of course) but they will be planted together, a.sses touching while having a very long staff shoved up each others anus. Then...with magic..they shall become the worlds first human spider! For the magic that will be used will forever bind them together! So that they can never part. While forever living together, a.ss to a.ss with a very long staff stuck up each others anus!

Modifié par CodyMelch, 27 février 2012 - 08:44 .

[GavrielKay]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I'd tear the spirit of Justice from Anders, and bind it within an amulet. Then I'd use the Rite of Tranquility on Anders to erase him as a person, and hang the amulet with justice inside around the neck of Tranquil Anders. Hopefully, a little piece of Anders would still be inside Justice, and it would writhe in eternal agony at his own fate.

Gee, that sounds like an appropriate punishment for someone who was stolen from his family by a politically and militarily powerful religion, raised by people who hated and feared him.  People who put him in solitary confinement for long stretches of time, chased him even after he joined the Grey Wardens where he was supposed to be immune, and finally ripped out the emotions of his first lover...

Yeah, he hasn't suffered enough, certainly.

After all the Chantry did to create Anders, they at least owe him a clean death.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Lazy Jer wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I'd tear the spirit of Justice from Anders, and bind it within an amulet. Then I'd use the Rite of Tranquility on Anders to erase him as a person, and hang the amulet with justice inside around the neck of Tranquil Anders. Hopefully, a little piece of Anders would still be inside Justice, and it would writhe in eternal agony at his own fate.

Oh good, a sufficently gruesome one.  Now I can ask the question I'm on about Meredith.  ...  Do you guys think crucifixion, or impalement would give her a better perspective of how munane horrors can equal magical ones?

Well if I really wanted to make Meredeth suffer I'd make her a judge on American Idol.

That'd be a show I'd watch at least once.

[Fox In The Box]

Never mind!

Modifié par Fox In The Box, 27 février 2012 - 09:01 .

[TEWR]

Hmm. ... Okay. Say you've got whoever you despise the most on the opposing side. For mage supporters, probably Meredith, maybe Alrik or Karras. Templar supporters, I'm assuming Anders comes in the lead with Quentin and Grace runners up. Hell, maybe Corypheus. So you've got them at your mercy. They regret that they have but one life to give for their cause. How do you make them give it?

Let's see, for Alrik and Kerras -- Well, Alrik brings to mind something from Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex 2nd GIG.

In the 3rd episode of the season, Section 9 was investigating some rich guy who had illegally laundered money. This guy primarily enjoyed having sex with androids, who lacked souls -- a soul is called a Ghost in the SAC universe IIRC.

So I think of Alrik the same way. He can really only enjoy having sex with a soulless puppet. Otherwise, he's impotent.

So what I would do is tie them up and tell the mages that they can abuse them the same way those two abused the mages, so long as they don't kill them. Because after they've been put through the same torture they put other people through, I'd chop off their members and force feed them down their throats, respectively. Or, I'd force feed Kerras Alrik's member and vice versa. Then, I'd toss them off of the Cliffs of Kirkwall and into the Waking Sea.

I would Tranquil them, but I'd prefer to hear their screams of pain and agony as they bleed to death and fall down to their watery grave.

Alternatively, I'd just tie a boulder to their dicks and toss the boulder over the cliffs, dragging them down with it. Whichever would provide me with more lulz.

For Meredith: I'd crucify her, flay her, pour boiling oil on top of her, and if she's still alive, set a fire underneath her that would burn whatever remains of her alive.

And then the red lyrium would kick in and trap her as a crucified statue, forever bound as a testimony to what she has done and her appropriate punishment.

(Yes, there's something wrong with me.)

Don't worry. There's something wrong with everyone.

My life motto -- well, one of them -- is: We're all ****ed up in one way or another.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 27 février 2012 - 11:20 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

GavrielKay wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I'd tear the spirit of Justice from Anders, and bind it within an amulet. Then I'd use the Rite of Tranquility on Anders to erase him as a person, and hang the amulet with justice inside around the neck of Tranquil Anders. Hopefully, a little piece of Anders would still be inside Justice, and it would writhe in eternal agony at his own fate.

Gee, that sounds like an appropriate punishment for someone who was stolen from his family by a politically and militarily powerful religion, raised by people who hated and feared him.  People who put him in solitary confinement for long stretches of time, chased him even after he joined the Grey Wardens where he was supposed to be immune, and finally ripped out the emotions of his first lover...

Yeah, he hasn't suffered enough, certainly.

After all the Chantry did to create Anders, they at least owe him a clean death.

.... Anders was raised by the other mages in the Circle....
Furthermore, Anders blew up a Chantry, whatever "clean death" you think he might have earned before that, vaporized along with the Chantry.

And Rifneno was obviously fishing for the cruelest ways of executing the most hated characters of DA. I just obliged with one of best ones I could think of.

[Xilizhra]

Furthermore, Anders blew up a Chantry, whatever "clean death" you think he might have earned before that, vaporized along with the Chantry.

No it didn't.

[Blacklash93]

Rifneno wrote...
The most obvious point for me was that so much of Kirkwall's problems were the Enigma of Kirkwall making the town into a vortex of insanity and dialing it up to 11 for mages. Things being so bad that in the undercity even ordinary people could contact demons because the Veil was so sundered. We went from only a small handful of blood mages and abominations in DAO to having more of them than sane NPCs in DA2. All because of the Enigma of Kirkwall (because "ancient Tevinter ****s who put the Veil in a giant paper shredder for reasons unknown" got tiring to write after the first time). ... And no one noticed anything was out of the ordinary. They basically put the Circle of Magi in the house from Poltergeist and nobody thought "geez, something might be wrong with this place, I don't think the walls are supposed to bleed with the blood of the innocent..." Even though so many of the inhabitants were from places that were unhaunted, they didn't notice that Kirkwall was the mouth of Hell. People like Bethany and Anders especially should have noticed pretty much immediately the unusually high demon population. But they don't. Anders doesn't even notice and blame it on the Chantry or templars.

If you gather mages up in one place for long enough the veil will eventually become very thin. The White Spire in Orlais is pretty much the prime example of this. The thin veil also serves a purpose to prove the mages are strong enough to combat demons in such environments. It's a "Chicken or the Egg" situation and there's really no way to win.

With that said, you're right. Kirkwall's veil is so laughably weak it's just stupid for the Templars to keep mages there. I think the writers mentioned a few cut plots detailing Hawke's struggle with these circumstances.

How about where, if you sided with the mages, you can save every mage in the room and they'll all instantly die of a congenital heart defect just so Orsino can have his mental breakdown and decide that the best course of action is to to commit suicide so he can become a giant corpse monster while surrounded exclusively by allies? They later admitted that part was just because they wanted the mage route to have 2 boss fights too.

It's either that or overly demonize the Templars by having Meredith be the only big bad.

How about how Thrask, an otherwise intelligent and reasonable person, along with his entire conspiracy decide that Hawke is Meredith's puppet even if they know first-hand that Hawke has been actively working against Meredith for many years and even one of the few that dares to publicly speak out against her even now? Instead of thinking "this will be our greatest ally," they decide that blackmailing Hawke by kidnapping and threatening to kill a loved one (or Carver) is the correct course of action. That storyline was worse than New Coke.

I'll give you that.

"Petrice, you scum! You tried to get me killed so you can start a religious war?! I'll kill you right here in this abandoned house where no one knows you and Varnell are and we outnumber you. Prepare to meet your Maker!" "Nah." "Oh. Okay then. Bye."

Lack of player agency FTL! I undertstand they wanted Petrice there for act 2, but there were definitely other, better ways to go about it.

"Hi, my name is Merrill." "I'm Hawke, a templar supporter." "Oh? That sucks, 'cuz I'm a blood mage." "What! How--I'm going to turn you in or kill you or something!" "Nah. I'd prefer it if you covered up my existence for the next 6 years while I experiment on an ancient darkspawn murder device in the middle of the biggest city in the Free Marches." "Ok, I'll do that then." (Note to TEWR: I'm not saying I agree with such a course of action, but the option definitely should have been there for Hawkes who are vehemently anti-blood mage/pro-templar.)

Again, lack of player agency. Something that plagued DA2.

At least all these issues are confined to Kirkwall.

[Xilizhra]

It's either that or overly demonize the Templars by having Meredith be the only big bad.

They already demonized the mages by having so many nuts and no positive examples outside your own party. This would be even.

[Rifneno]

Lazy Jer wrote...

Well if I really wanted to make Meredeth suffer I'd make her a judge on American Idol.

A judge? Just watching it is enough. Being a judge is almost a mercy. At least a judge can verbally abuse the contestants like that british guy.

-------------------------

Wow, kudos to those with the venomous creativity thus far.
Hmm. Actually, "venomous"... that gives ideas. Wrong ideas. Here's a few of nature's most horrible to consider aiding you:
The bullet ant. Generally agreed to be the most painful sting of any insect in the world. And totally non-lethal! Also, it screams at you. Seriously, it does a war cry.
The Japanese giant hornet. Do I really need to say more than "giant hornet"? It's like the size of a thumb. Oh and it spits acid at people's eyes. Acid that has a scent which attracts other giant hornets. So nightmarish, you'd swear it must be from Australia despite the word "Japanese" in its name.
The Gaboon Viper. Sporting the longest fangs and highest venom yield of any snake, it singlehandedly justifies every fear of snakes. Its bite is often fatal but is noteworthy for the all-consuming agony it inflicts. It even has tiny horns. Why would a snake have horns!

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

And Rifneno was obviously fishing for the cruelest ways of executing the most hated characters of DA. I just obliged with one of best ones I could think of.

True story.

At the end of the day, it's just a game. Getting out some malice on fictional characters is fun, therapeutic, and harmless. I supposed it could go badly like this if people take shots against a character personally, but if they're even reading threads like this one then that ship has already sailed and slammed into an iceberg at mach 3.

[dragonflight288]

In the end, blowing up, poisoning, or just plain cutting the head off of fictional characters certainly beats the alternative. Blowing up, poisoning, or just plain cutting the head off of actual people.

[Cismontane]

Personally, I found anders' view of the world to be that of a budding zealot going all the way back to Awakening. My warden got so irritated with him that she decided to let the Templars have him when they ambushed him in Amaranthine. Justice may have brought out the worst in him, but he was already well on his way to becoming a militant sociopath well before he met the spirit.

Consider his views of the Imperium. In several dialogues, he applauds their system.. Even though he knows very well that the Tevinter magocracy is monstrously corrupt, ruling over a system based on mass slavery, imperialism and outright Somali-style gangsterism abroad.

this is not a good guy.  And nobody should be surprised he chose terrorism.

Modifié par Cismontane, 01 mars 2012 - 06:45 .

[Rifneno]

Cismontane wrote...

Personally, I found anders' view of the world to be that of a budding zealot going all the way back to Awakening. My warden got so irritated with him that she decided to let the Templars have him when they ambushed him in Amaranthine. Justice may have brought out the worst in him, but he was already well on his way to becoming a militant sociopath well before he met the spirit.

First, it's quite likely that Justice was the corrupter. Justice was always about killing as punishment ("avenging") from the minute the Baroness falls until the end of Awakening when he's willing to betray the Warden and try to kill him too if he decides to team up with the Architect to battle the greater evil of the Mother. Because he thinks the Architect is the worse of the two? No. Because "WE MUST AVENGE THE FALLLEN!!!!11111" So while we clearly can see that the Architect was an original corrupted magister, at the time we had no real proof of wrongdoing on his part. He was misguided and he made mistakes, but not evil. But Justice is so adamant about murdering him simply because he's a part of the 'enemy faction' that he's willing to turn on the Warden. Yeah, it's a huge shock that when he wound up in a mage's body he viewed the templars and the Chantry's system in the same light. Totally unexpected. Uh-huh. It's all Anders' fault, clearly.

Second, it's called "cause and effect." Oddly enough people tend to hate those who imprison, abuse, dehumanize, and even often mass murder them for being different.

Consider his views of the Imperium. In several dialogues, he applauds their system.. Even though he knows very well that the Tevinter magocracy is monstrously corrupt, ruling over a system based on mass slavery, imperialism and outright Somali-style gangsterism abroad.

They do seem awful in comparison to the good and equal societies of Thedas like... oh, right, there aren't any. Remember the woman in the marketplace of Denerim who had fled there from Orlais because her family was in trouble? Their grand crime was that her brother defended her from someone trying to rape her. And since the rapist had high rank, that was all fine and dandy, but hitting him when he's committing rape is a heinous crime to them. But that's just Orlais, right? Oh no wait, that's pretty much the gist of the City Elf origin too. So Ferelden, the supposed shining example for the rest of Thedas, is also okay with rape as long as your daddy was important and the girl's wasn't. And then there's Orzammar. OMFG. The way they treat the casteless makes even Tevinter look like a beacon of hope and equality.

And I have to wonder, if Anders said anything half as hateful about the Chantry as you just did about Tevinter (which you've basing on hearsay and having met a few slavers I might add) then I wonder what you'd have labeled him instead of "militant sociopath".

this is not a good guy. And nobody should be surprised he chose terrorism.

It always gives me a hearty laugh when someone with a Cerberus related avatar or sig pulls the "terrorist!" card on Anders. Thanks.

[General User]

Cismontane wrote...

Personally, I found anders' view of the world to be that of a budding zealot going all the way back to Awakening. My warden got so irritated with him that she decided to let the Templars have him when they ambushed him in Amaranthine. Justice may have brought out the worst in him, but he was already well on his way to becoming a militant sociopath well before he met the spirit.

I'm not sure I agree.  Anders was basically a good man, and Justice was basically a good spirit.  It was only once they joined that they began their slide into madness.  Without that joining I don't think either one would have become anything like the monster that bombed the Kirkwall Chantry.  It was an absolutely toxic relationship; Justice and Anders brought out the worst in each other.

[Xilizhra]

I'm not sure I agree. Anders was basically a good man, and Justice was basically a good spirit. It was only once they joined that they began their slide into madness. Without that joining I don't think either one would have become anything like the monster that bombed the Kirkwall Chantry. It was an absolutely toxic relationship; Justice and Anders brought out the worst in each other.

I'd disagree in two areas. First, Anders still isn't a monster. Second, Justice did do one thing, that being getting rid of Anders' self-centeredness. What replaced it was arguably nothing better, but that is a negative trait gone.

[Plaintiff]

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm not sure I agree. Anders was basically a good man, and Justice was basically a good spirit. It was only once they joined that they began their slide into madness. Without that joining I don't think either one would have become anything like the monster that bombed the Kirkwall Chantry. It was an absolutely toxic relationship; Justice and Anders brought out the worst in each other.

I'd disagree in two areas. First, Anders still isn't a monster. Second, Justice did do one thing, that being getting rid of Anders' self-centeredness. What replaced it was arguably nothing better, but that is a negative trait gone.

Anders may've had funnier lines in Awakening, but for my part, I found him a good deal more sympathetic, likeable and attractive in DA2.

But I get the sense that in Awakening, his personality was nowhere near as set as people seem to think. As demonstrated by his dialogue and approval instances, it was all over the place, veering wildly between "We have to save those innocents!" to "HA HA KILLING IS FUN".