2008 réponses à ce sujet

[EmperorSahlertz]

[quote]Plaintiff wrote...

[quote]EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The line "Anders is a tortured slave of the Chantry" is getting old... he wasn't once tortured or ever experienced the "cruelty" of the Circle. Not once. Actually he was protected by the Circle,[/quote]
A year of solitary confinement is not "protection" by any stretch of the imagination. It most certainly constitutes mental torture.
[/quote] 
When the alternative is death, it IS protection. Go replay and reread codex entries if you must. Anders would've been executed had it not been for the First Enchanters refusal to authorize it.

[quote]Plaintiff wrote... 
[quote]otherwise he would have been executed many, many years ago.[/quote]
No he would not. Executing a mage simply for running away is against chantry law. All examples where such a thing occurred are completely illegal, and should have been punished, were it not for the disgustingly apathetic and lazy authority that handles these matters (ie, The Chantry, which made the law in the first place).
[/quote] 
It matters not if it against the written law. Since he had escaped for so many times, it was only a matter of time before the Templars would brand him a maleficar, true or not, and be done with him. Simply to stop wasting resources on him.

[quote]Plaintiff wrote... 
[quote]Nor did the CHantry itself ever do anything to Anders, other than educate him on the aspects of magic.[/quote]
Except for the kidnapping, and ripping the soul out of his friend and former lover, and hounding him relentlessly even after he was conscripted into the Grey Wardens, and harassing him for years while he worked to heal sick people...
[/quote] 
The Chantry DID NOT touch Karl. I don't know if you know, or were even paying attention to that part of the game, but Alrik, was NOT acting on authority of the Chantry, and was breaking the law.. So no, the Chantry never did anyhting against Anders, except for removing him from his family. Which as I said, is a sad neccesity, sicne there is only one facility to train mages: the Circle.

[quote]Plaintiff wrote... 
[quote]Yes, they removed him from his family. Which in Thedas' current state, is a sad neccesity.[/quote]
No it isn't. The Chantry doesn't try any other options because a) it is lazy and corrupt and allowing mages to have any sort of ties to the world outside would make it harder to control them.
[/quote] 
The very notion of thinking that every single child-mage can have his own personal mage-tutor reeks of stupidity and ignorance on educational matters. There simply aren't enough teachers for such a scheme to be feasible, and there isn't enough control allow the Cirlce to split into multiple lesser institutions. The Cirlce is, as of it is, the best and safest way to educate mages.

[quote]Plaintiff wrote... 
[quote]If he had wished to remain in contact with his family, he could easily have done so, same for his family.[/quote]
Lies, lies, lies. Anders explicitly states that parents are usually forbidden from seeing their mage children. Every instance we've seen where a family tried to conceal a mage child, that was a major factor of their reasoning. Ella's mother didn't even know which Circle she was being held in. How the **** was she supposed to send a letter?  Emile De Launcet's parents haven't seen him since he was a little boy, until he escapes years later, as a full-grown man.

The only exceptions to this rule are the obscenely wealthy and influential. Being forced to pay exorbitant sums for what ought to be a basic right is not the sign of a just and fair religion.

Even if contact were allowed, it's prety clearly established that the Anderfels are very far away, and it's not as if they have email. A letter would be delivered on foot, or on horseback, if one is lucky. It would take weeks if not months to reach its destination, assuming it got there at all, which cannot be guranteed.
[/quote] 
We have a grand total of: ZERO mages who were actively prevented from contacting their parents. Zero. Anders claims to have been, but he also cliams that he could seperate Justice from himself with a bomb....
We have several cases of mages actually being allowed to contact the outside world. So forgive me, but I'm gonna go with what we actually have proof of, instaed of the word of Anders, a notorius speaker, of half-truths and obvious lies.

[quote]Plaintiff wrote... 
[quote]Anders was an extremist with extreme views. Same as Meredith. They were also both willing to go to any length, and pay any price to achieve their goals. The only difference on their personalities were ideology.[/quote]
 Yes. the difference being that Anders' ideology is the right one.
[/quote] 
Nope.

[quote]Plaintiff wrote... 
[quote]Sure they were different regarding personal status and influence. meredith had an acutal vindicated cause, and first-hand experience about waht she was talking. However misguided she was.[/quote]
"A black person stole my wallet once and that is why I no longer ride busses with black people!"
[/quote] 
"I was saw an innocent black person assaulted by the police. Therefore all black persons are innocent and all police are bastards!" Is an equally stupid sentence.

Furthermore, the very comparison of black persons to mages, disgusts me. Black persons are not inherently more prone to criminality, nor violence, and are therefore not inherently dangerous to their surroundings.
Mages on the other hand, are ALL mages (who would've thunk it?), and are therefore inherently prone to magic, and possession, and are tehrefore a danger to everyone and everything around, wether they want to or not.
Of course, for the simple person, it is easy to make the black person oppression = mage oppresion. It simply doesn't hold any water, and are utterly digusting.

[quote]Plaintiff wrote... 
[quote]Anders was talking out of his arse, and never had any first-hand experiences to the abuses of the Circle.[/quote]
I'm sorry, what part of witnessing the illegal mind-rape of his ex-lover and oldest friend does not constitute "first-hand experience"?[/quote] 
Since, as I said, the Chantry played no part of the tranquilization of Karl, I'm again gonna go with the, "Anders don't know what he is talking about..." card.

[quote]Plaintiff wrote... 
[quote]That is not to say that such abuses weren't there.[/quote]
In fact, abuse is almost everything the Circle does. It would take less time to make a list of the ways in which it hasn't caused needless suffering. 
[/quote] 
Funnily enough, all the Circle prevents, never gets reported becase they never happen. Do you even fathom how many lives the Circle has saved through the proper education of mages, and destruction of abominations, BEFORE they get loose? No, because that is in the realm of speculation. But it is undeniable that the Circle has prevented such suffereing, and has done so for 900 years.

[quote]Plaintiff wrote... 
[quote]Just that Anders had no idea about what he was talking.[/quote]
He lived in the Circle from the age of twelve and is now in his late twenties, if not early thirties. Unless you're proposing that he was kept in a sound-proof bubble and never had any contact with anyone at all, (which is explicitly proven to not be the case), there is absolutely no way that he could fail to be intimately aware of the abuses of the Circle.
[/quote] 
Unless he has actually seen it happen, which he never says he has, or it has happened to himself, which it hasn't, he will always only have second hand experiences with it. He know snothing of what he talks.

[quote]Plaintiff wrote... 
[quote]He was perhaps the least qualified mage, to ever advocate mage equality and rights.[/quote]
Right, and exactly what qualifications do you imagine such a position requires?[/quote]
A mage who actually knows what he is talking aobut? One who has seen, even felt on his ow body, the injustices done to the mages. Not a person who merely idolizes an idea of freedom, to the extend of it eclipsing all else, but because that to change the system would be what is actually "right", and can argue for it in more than one word (Anders is basically a one word vocabularum on the subject "freedom!!!11oneoneeleven")..... Oh, and someone who isn't an abomination, that would be good too.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 13 mars 2012 - 01:15 .

[Koire]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Anders wanted the mages to fight or die trying. That is an extreme view. And he was completely unwilling to compromise in the least. For him it was mage freedom or nothing.

He did not demonstrate this "view" until Act 3, when the third option in addition to "fight or die trying" became "simply die". Meredith on the other hand went on with her "views" from the start.
Also, it occured to me that an "extreme view" is second Tevinter, not mage freedom per se. Since when asking for basic rights became something extreme?

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
If he had wished to remain in contact with his family, he could easily have done so, same for his family. He clearly didn't. His own fault.

No, he couldn't.
"If you're born with magic, they hear about it. They search your little rat-spit village and find you. They tell your parents that they'll be thrown in prison if they ever ask about you... stripped of their rights in the eyes of the Maker." (from the game)
"I was no more than twelve when they came for me. My mother wept when they fixed the chains to my wrists, but my father was glad to see me gone. He had been afraid, ever since the fire in the barn. Not just afraid of what I could do, but afraid of me, afraid my magic was punishment for whatever petty sins he imagined the Maker sat in judgment upon." (from the short story)
How do you think it feels being feared by your own parents? Would you return?

Anders was talking out of his arse, and never had any first-hand experiences to the abuses of the Circle. That is not to say that such abuses weren't there. Just that Anders had no idea about what he was talking. 

Lets see:
-taken from the parents at the age of 12 to a country where people speak a different language
-punished multiple times for running away when he still was a child (do you think that a child who is drawing somebody being eaten by a tiger actually feels well?)
-lured into a trap by templars lead by Rylock so that they could capture and execute him in DAA after he'd become a Grey Warden
-threatened to death by a former templar Rolan who infiltrated Grey Warden ranks in order to watch Anders and persuaded them that he was an abomination
-lured into a trap by templars once more in DA2; this time they tranquilized his former lover, who asked Anders to kill him out of mercy
Also:
-saw fellow mages commit suicide
-saw Kirkwall mages who passed their Harrowing tranquilized against the Chantry law

 However in the case of mages, who can simply enter the Fade conciously, it is a different matter. A mage can have contact with the outside world, through the Fade, even though they are physically confined.

Wrong. In order to enter the Fade a mage needs lyrium or blood (see Magi Origin, Connor and the Fade sequence in Asunder). We also saw mages and non-mages drawn into the Fade forcefully (Broken Circle and the Fade sequence in DAA) or via an "ancient elven ritual" (Night Terrors).
Those who can do it consciously without lyrium or blood are called somniari or dreamers, they are very rare. Any mage can communicate with Fade inhabitants though.

And Plaintiff, did I ever tell you I love you?) Because I do 

Modifié par Koire, 13 mars 2012 - 02:23 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Then you are misunderstanding me. I'm saying taht solitary confinement rarely leaves any permanent mental scars, and, obviously, never any physical scars on the person submitted to it. Where as a yearlong submission to waterboarding would leave extreme mental and physical scars on a person.

Solitary confinement -- when it goes on for longer then a few weeks -- can lead to sensory deprivation.

The lack of contact with anyone else can also lead to depression, changes in the brain's physiology, existential crisis, and death.

It's been deemed that it's a leading cause of psychosis for healthy people and can even exacerbate mental illness in those that aren't healthy.

So I question the notion of it "rarely leaving any mental scars", permanent or otherwise. It's irrelevant how long a person is damaged for. What's relevant is that they're damaged if it goes on for longer then a few weeks -- and even that seems like torture to me. Plus, one could still be mentally scarred but cover it up so that the world doesn't know.

And Anders was imprisoned for a year in solitary the last time. A year. That definitely had to have left some mental scars on him, and so he used jokes to cover it up. Or at least, that's how I saw his Awakening self.

The whole point is that it is extremely easily mended again. Simply by allowance of social contact again. While true there will always be cases of mental scars which lasts for many years afterwards, there will also always be the case of a person completely untouched by it. Both cases represent an extreme end of the spectrum, and are both rather rare. There is a reason that many so-called civilezed nations are still practising isolation and solitary confinement. It is because it is damn effective (one week of solitary confinement would exhaust most sane persons mentally) and easily treatable if it goes wrong.

I'll also grant you that a whole year of solitary confinement is extreme, even unrealistic. And that is what leads me to propsoe the idea of amges still being able to actually have contact with the outside world. They are virtually given a cell phone and allowed contact, through the Fade, with other mages. Which will do a whole lot to help endure solitary confinement. Hell, even the fact that he had a cat with him, changes everyhting about his confinement, since event hat simple creature would offer him companionship in his solitary confinement.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 13 mars 2012 - 01:25 .

[Alessa]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

And Anders was imprisoned for a year in solitary the last time. A year. That definitely had to have left some mental scars on him, and so he used jokes to cover it up. Or at least, that's how I saw his Awakening self.

That's how I saw him in Awakening, too.

When we went down to the Deep Roads he seemed frightened ... he always said: "it's dark here and cold ... and dark!"  I interpreted this as a reaction to the horrible memories caused by this place.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Wulfram wrote...

Sticking mages into a solitary confinement with only contact with the Fade seems like a deliberate attempt to get them possessed.

Which makes some sense, from the same point of view that came up with the Harrowing. Either they get possessed in a convenient place and you can kill them without qualm - and justify to yourself that they were weak and would have been possessed eventually anyway - or you've established that despite their rebellious nature they're actually good at resisting demons.

Harrowed mages have been trained to resist temptation from demons. Unless you claim that all mages are always at the same risk of possession within the Fade.

[Koire]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Go replay and reread codex entries if you must. Anders would've been executed had it not been for the First Enchanters refusal to authorize it.

Wrong, when you ask Anders in DAA why the templars always capture but never kill him, he replies that he is a Harrowed mage and they can't kill him without proof that he is a blood mage - it is against the law. The Codex entry says only that Irving did not consider Anders to be a threat.

The very notion of thinking that every single child-mage can have his own personal mage-tutor reeks of stupidity and ignorance on educational matters. There simply aren't enough teachers for such a scheme to be feasible, and there isn't enough control allow the Cirlce to split into multiple lesser institutions. The Cirlce is, as of it is, the best and safest way to educate mages.

There are two mages in each elven clan - the keeper (the teacher) and the first (the apprentice). It works.

We have a grand total of: ZERO mages who were actively prevented from contacting their parents. Zero. Anders claims to have been, but he also cliams that he could seperate Justice from himself with a bomb....
We have several cases of mages actually being allowed to contact the outside world. So forgive me, but I'm gonna go with what we actually have proof of, instaed of the word of Anders, a notorius speaker, of half-truths and obvious lies.

I replied to this above.

Funnily enough, all the Circle prevents, never gets reported becase they never happen. Do you even fathom how many lives the Circle has saved through the proper education of mages, and destruction of abominations, BEFORE they get loose? No, because that is in the realm of speculation. But it is undeniable that the Circle has prevented such suffereing, and has done so for 900 years.

This. And it is among 20 winning entries of the recent writing contest, btw.
Also, apprentices are never even told what the Harrowing is (replay the Magi Origin). They are not prepared, they are thrown into the Fade not knowing what awaits them.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Koire wrote...

The very notion of thinking that every single child-mage can have his own personal mage-tutor reeks of stupidity and ignorance on educational matters. There simply aren't enough teachers for such a scheme to be feasible, and there isn't enough control allow the Cirlce to split into multiple lesser institutions. The Cirlce is, as of it is, the best and safest way to educate mages.

There are two mages in each elven clan - the keeper (the teacher) and the first (the apprentice). It works.

 
You of course realzie that Dalish mage-children are also ripped away from their families and torn from their life, and given to other clans jsut so those selfish clans can have their mages, right? Oh the humanity. Or rather: oh the irony.

Koire wrote... 

Funnily enough, all the Circle prevents, never gets reported becase they never happen. Do you even fathom how many lives the Circle has saved through the proper education of mages, and destruction of abominations, BEFORE they get loose? No, because that is in the realm of speculation. But it is undeniable that the Circle has prevented such suffereing, and has done so for 900 years.

This. And it is among 20 winning entries of the recent writing contest, btw.
Also, apprentices are never even told what the Harrowing is (replay the Magi Origin). They are not prepared, they are thrown into the Fade not knowing what awaits them.

Fan-made lore is about as much worth lorewise as the toilet paper you flush out after taking a dumb, and I'm not even gonna bother using it as any worthy reference, unless specifically stated by the writers that it should be considered lore. Surely they may make for an entertaining read, but that is all tehy are. They are not lore.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 13 mars 2012 - 01:38 .

[Koire]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
While true there will always be cases of mental scars which lasts for many years afterwards, there will also always be the case of a person completely untouched by it. Both cases represent an extreme end of the spectrum, and are both rather rare.

False. Negative consequences are very common. Lack of them is rare. Read this, for instance. 

I'll also grant you that a whole year of solitary confinement is extreme, even unrealistic.

In modern prisons they keep people in the solitary for years. Why couldn't they do it in an imaginary one?)

[TEWR]

Fan-made lore is about as much worth lorewise as the toilet paper you flush out after taking a dumb, and I'm not even gonna bother using it as any worthy reference, unless specifically stated by the writers that it should be considered lore. Surely they may make for an entertaining read, but that is all tehy are. They are not lore.

That's an actual codex from the game in the beginning of the blog entry.

[Koire]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
You of course realzie that Dalish mage-children are also ripped away from their families and torn from their life, and given to other clans jsut so those selfish clans can have their mages, right? Oh the humanity. Or rather: oh the irony.

Sure, I don't think it is the best model. But it proves that your initial point is moot)

Fan-made lore is about as much worth lorewise as the toilet paper you flush out after taking a dumb, and I'm not even gonna bother using it as any worthy reference, unless specifically stated by the writers that it should be considered lore. Surely they may make for an entertaining read, but that is all tehy are. They are not lore.

No, you got me wrong. I do not claim that this is a canon or something. No way. I linked it because the author's speculations are exactly what I think, and it would be quicker to link them than to write something like that myself)
PS The Codex entry is from DAO, yes. "Irving's mistake".

Modifié par Koire, 13 mars 2012 - 01:47 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Fan-made lore is about as much worth lorewise as the toilet paper you flush out after taking a dumb, and I'm not even gonna bother using it as any worthy reference, unless specifically stated by the writers that it should be considered lore. Surely they may make for an entertaining read, but that is all tehy are. They are not lore.

That's an actual codex from the game in the beginning of the blog entry.

And that entry does nothing to tell us about how amny tragedies have been averted through the Circle. It merely tells us what we already know: that it has. The rest of the story is however, useless.

[TEWR]

And that entry does nothing to tell us about how amny tragedies have been averted through the Circle. It merely tells us what we already know: that it has. The rest of the story is however, useless.

I wouldn't even say that the Circle has averted anything considering it was Uldred -- who was a long practitioner of blood magic -- that rooted out blood mages. 

It's my belief that Uldred is the one that gave apprentices the tomes on blood magic -- well, maybe not gave, but he would've maybe "accidentally" dropped notes or books on the subject near a mage -- and then ratted them out upon finding out they're reading from them to increase his standing amongst the other mages and to help keep hidden the fact that he was a blood mage himself.

Hell, I think he's the reason why Jowan became a blood mage. We know Jowan read books on the subject. Who's to say Uldred didn't deliberately set up something so that Jowan would read the books and then he ratted him out as well?

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 13 mars 2012 - 01:53 .

[Koire]

@EmperorSahlertz
Ok, I'll cite myself. Please excuse me for this liberty 

Koire wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Funnily enough, all the Circle prevents, never gets reported becase they never happen.

This. And it is among 20 winning entries of the recent writing contest, btw.
Also, apprentices are never even told what the Harrowing is (replay the Magi Origin). They are not prepared, they are thrown into the Fade not knowing what awaits them.

My point is, the Circle detects  rather than prevents. Please, please, read the story)

Modifié par Koire, 13 mars 2012 - 02:04 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

And that entry does nothing to tell us about how amny tragedies have been averted through the Circle. It merely tells us what we already know: that it has. The rest of the story is however, useless.

I wouldn't even say that the Circle has averted anything considering it was Uldred that rooted out blood mages.

It's my belief that Uldred is the one that gave apprentices the tomes on blood magic -- well, maybe not gave, but he would've maybe "accidentally" dropped notes or books on the subject near a mage -- and then ratted them out to increase his standing amongst the other mages and to help keep hidden the fact that he was a blood mage himself.

Hell, I think he's the reason why Jowan became a blood mage. We know Jowan read books on the subject. Who's to say Uldred didn't deliberately set up something so that Jowan would read the books and then he ratted him out as well.

Has Uldred been rooting out Blood mages for the Circle for the past 900 years? 

I'm just gonna go ahead and answer my own question: No, he hasn't. Has the Circle as an institution been doing so? Yes. Has it also prevented abominations from happening by proper education of mages? Yes. Has it also prevented abominations from casuign severe destruction by containing them? Yes.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Koire wrote...


@
EmperorSahlertz

Ok, I'll cite myself. Please excuse me for this liberty 

Koire wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Funnily enough, all the Circle prevents, never gets reported becase they never happen.

This. And it is among 20 winning entries of the recent writing contest, btw.
Also, apprentices are never even told what the Harrowing is (replay the Magi Origin). They are not prepared, they are thrown into the Fade not knowing what awaits them.

My point is, the Circle detects rather than prevents. Please, please, read the story)

You can't prevent a blood mage, you can prevent an abomination.

[Koire]

"Also, apprentices are never even told what the Harrowing is (replay the Magi Origin). They are not prepared, they are thrown into the Fade not knowing what awaits them."

You can, but unfortunately the Circles don't use this possibility properly.

Modifié par Koire, 13 mars 2012 - 01:59 .

[TEWR]

Has Uldred been rooting out Blood mages for the Circle for the past 900 years?

No. But you were saying that the codex in question is proof of what the Circle as an institution has been doing. It isn't.

I wasn't disputing an argument that the Circle prevents abominations. At least, not there. But since it's been brought up...

I'm just gonna go ahead and answer my own question: No, he hasn't. Has the Circle as an institution been doing so? Yes. Has it also prevented abominations from happening by proper education of mages? Yes. Has it also prevented abominations from casuign severe destruction by containing them? Yes.

Mages were free after the fall of the Imperium, after the formation of the Templars, but prior to the Circle's formation and abominations didn't run rampant and destroy the world.

Tevinter -- the worst place to talk about in the arguments for mages, but it does apply here -- has free mages and hasn't fallen because of Abominations when even the Templars aren't allowed to do their job properly. Even if they're complete douchebags with an added layer of prickhood.

The Dalish have free mages and they haven't been wiped out by Abominations, despite it still happening within their group.

The Circles on the other hand have had Abominations left and right. Even Morrigan can say that the Circle is exactly what she expected: Abominations running rampant and Templars ready to slaughter everything.

The Circles don't prevent Abominations from happening. At best, they keep them from escaping. At worst, they're the cause of the Abominations.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 13 mars 2012 - 02:06 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Koire wrote...

"Also, apprentices are never even told what the Harrowing is (replay the Magi Origin). They are not prepared, they are thrown into the Fade not knowing what awaits them."

You can, but unfortunately the Circles don't use this possibility properly.

The apprentices aren't told of what the Harrowing intices because it is supposed to simulate an actual first encounter with a demon.

[TEWR]

That makes no sense given the fact that mages are contacted by demons prior to the Harrowing. Or so the Chantry preaches.

Why simulate a first encounter when it's not the first encounter? Why make a mage afraid of the Harrowing instead of properly educating him/her?

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 13 mars 2012 - 02:10 .

[Koire]

EmperorSahlertz wrote..
The apprentices aren't told of what the Harrowing intices because it is supposed to simulate an actual first encounter with a demon.

Don't you think it would be better if they were told? And taught what to do in this situation. Like i.e. Malcolm Hawke taught his children. 
Do you think fear of something unknown helps to resist?

[TEWR]

Do you think fear of something unknown helps to resist?

Nope. If anything it leads to worse situations. If you're afraid, a demon might play on that fear and trick you. The Circle exists to protect all mages.

By keeping that information unknown to the Mage, they're encouraging that he/she gets possessed. If they want the mages to resist demons, then they should constantly educate them on demons and tell them that's what the Harrowing is about.

That way, all mages can resist demons in the Harrowing. Or at least, that would be the hope.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 13 mars 2012 - 02:12 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I'm just gonna go ahead and answer my own question: No, he hasn't. Has the Circle as an institution been doing so? Yes. Has it also prevented abominations from happening by proper education of mages? Yes. Has it also prevented abominations from casuign severe destruction by containing them? Yes.

Mages were free after the fall of the Imperium and abominations didn't run rampant.

Tevinter -- the worst place to talk about in the arguments for mages, but it does apply -- has free mages and hasn't fallen because of Abominations when even the Templars aren't allowed to do their job properly.

The Dalish have free mages and they haven't been wiped out by Abominations, despite it still happening within their group.

The Circles on the other hand have had Abominations left and right. Even Morrigan can say that the Circle is exactly what she expected: Abominations running rampant and Templars ready to slaughter everything.

The Circles don't prevent Abominations from happening. At best, they keep them from escaping. At worst, they're the cause of the Abominations.

Funnily ernough, the time after the fall of the Imperium was called the darkest hour of mankind. Coincidence? You are probably going to put the blame on the Inquisition, but I'm gonna go with the likely culprit of roaming abominations and free blood mages on this one.

Tevinter, have free Magisters. The rank and file mages of Tevinter are jsut as stuck in their Circles as in the rest of Thedas. Furthermore, Tevinter has Templars, to enforce their laws of magic. The Tevinter Templars are only prevented from enforcing the laws on blood magic, but they are still there to hunt down renegade mages and abominations, and to act as Wardens at the Tevinter circle(s?)

The Dalish don't even have a fraction of the amount of amges the rest of the world has. Add to that the rarity of abominations, and you have yourself a case of "lottery-syndrome". Lets say that all mages have an equal chance of becoming an abomination (not true, but for discussion's sake), now take every Dalish mage out there, and compare the total to how many other mages there are in existance. Now do the math and calculate the chance of a Dalish mage becomming possessed. On a side note: 50% of all the Keepers we encounter have become an abomination. And while the Dalish have not been wiped out by abominations, is it only utter destruction of a people that classify as a grave tragedy? because every single time a Dalish Keeper have succumbed and become an abomination, I can guarentee you, that it has beena  great tragedy and a great blow to the Dalish people.

/facepalm Do you actually try and propose that the state of the Fereldan Cirlce is their common day-to-day? Do you actually propose that the education the Cirlce gives to its mages, does not entail how to resist demonic temptation? Morrigan is obviously being sarcastic when she talks of the Circle.
The Cirlce teaches the mages how to cast a spell with the correct syllables and motions to leave themselves at the least risk of possession. That is insinuated by Wynne in conversation with her.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

That makes no sense given the fact that mages are contacted by demons prior to the Harrowing. Or so the Chantry preaches.

Why simulate a first encounter when it's not the first encounter? Why make a mage afraid of the Harrowing instead of properly educating him/her?

You also get to drive a car before you take your license.....

Koire wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote..
The apprentices aren't told of what the Harrowing intices because it is supposed to simulate an actual first encounter with a demon.

Don't you think it would be better if they were told? And taught what to do in this situation. Like i.e. Malcolm Hawke taught his children. 
Do you think fear of something unknown helps to resist?

 
The mages are taught as much there is to know about demons before the harrowing, of that there is no doubt. They merely aren't told that the Harrowing is about encountering a demon. And no, I don't think it would be best to tell them. Since it would give them a false sense of security. They would go on with their lifes, with the idea that tehy could resist a demon, and as soon as a demon get a drop on them, they are dead. The Harrowing is as it is, to offer the mages the best first-hand encoutner with a demon, which tehy themselves truely overcome. While it is deadly, it is also most useful, since it proves to the mages, and the world, that this amge in particular can handle hismelf.

[TEWR]

You also get to drive a car before you take your license.....

With a licensed driver nearby offering you advice as you're doing it. With classes on the subject before you apply for a license.

both things don't happen for mages. They don't get mages helping them during the Harrowing nor do they have a class dealing with the Harrowing and how to deal with demons.

[dragonflight288]

Cullen says he knows some templars (this is the mage origin) who discusses killing mages who fail their harrowing with glee. The templars, even the ones in Ferelden, are full of people who would rather kill all the mages rather than let them be better educated or better prepared. Because in their eyes, magic itself is a sin, a corruption that causes nothing but misery and they believe it created the darkspawn. That it drove the Maker away.

Hmm, come to think of it, according to Chantry Lore, the Maker turned away from them the second time when Mafarath betrayed his wife (who was married to him first, stupid, making the woman cheat on her husband) and wasn't even around when the blights started. True that Andraste's rebellion started after the first blight, but the Maker had already turned from the world at that point...if it's true. So they can't blame that on magic.