242 réponses à ce sujet

[Ashley_SR2]

Quick off-topic, is an Agitated Lemon a citrus fruit that is angry or is it in the washing machine?

[CptData]

jamesp81 wrote...

Actually, I'm kind of with Buu on this one.  Normandy was cutting edge, granted, but its firepower was probably similar to that of a cruiser made with conventional technology.  The Collectors would've needed one hell of a big ass fleet to defeat the Alliance in a straight up fight.

That said, I do not agree that ME2 was pointless.  Far from it.

Maybe I should rethink my statement.

ME2 was not pointless.
However, ME2 concentrated on something that shouldn't have been the story's main arc. Defeating the Collectors doesn't make much difference for the Reapers - they were on their way to the galaxy anyway as seen in Arrival. However, it wasn't useless to stop the Collectors - since they're no longer a threat the Alliance can concentrate on the Reapers once they arrive.

Tbh, the better story arc could have been the stuff shown in Arrival. ME2 dealing with that plus looking for a way how to defeat the Reapers is far more important in my eyes than gathering a full dozen of squadmates before going on a suicide mission that deals with a minor threat compared to the real enemy.

In short: if I could write the story for ME2!reboot, defeating the Collectors would be reduced to a short campaign of a similar length as LotSB while Arrival becomes the new full game length story arc.

[AgitatedLemon]

Ashley_SR2 wrote...

Quick off-topic, is an Agitated Lemon a citrus fruit that is angry or is it in the washing machine?

Kinda like the annoying orange, but with more... Lemons.

http://en.wikipedia....Annoying_Orange

[AgitatedLemon]

CptData wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

Actually, I'm kind of with Buu on this one.  Normandy was cutting edge, granted, but its firepower was probably similar to that of a cruiser made with conventional technology.  The Collectors would've needed one hell of a big ass fleet to defeat the Alliance in a straight up fight.

That said, I do not agree that ME2 was pointless.  Far from it.

Maybe I should rethink my statement.

ME2 was not pointless.
However, ME2 concentrated on something that shouldn't have been the story's main arc. Defeating the Collectors doesn't make much difference for the Reapers - they were on their way to the galaxy anyway as seen in Arrival. However, it wasn't useless to stop the Collectors - since they're no longer a threat the Alliance can concentrate on the Reapers once they arrive.

Tbh, the better story arc could have been the stuff shown in Arrival. ME2 dealing with that plus looking for a way how to defeat the Reapers is far more important in my eyes than gathering a full dozen of squadmates before going on a suicide mission that deals with a minor threat compared to the real enemy.

In short: if I could write the story for ME2!reboot, defeating the Collectors would be reduced to a short campaign of a similar length as LotSB while Arrival becomes the new full game length story arc.

To be quite fair, I doubt they had an idea of Arrival when they released ME2. Didn't they say in an episode of Pulse or in a blog that they're basically winging the story when they make it up?

I just don't think they had the foresight of Arrival.

[Ticktank]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

I don't understand what the hell TickTank is saying.

Sorry if you were confused. English isn't my first language.

I agree that there's no 'betrayal' by BW here. They never explicitly promised that all characters will be available as squadmates. I'm just a little ticked AND amused by the biased attitudes of certain dextromancers here.

Slightly inappropriate metaphor, but bear with me:

Lets use God here. Its like you having the priviledge of eating 3 meals a day, and when you hear some Africans whining to god about hunger you tell them "Hey there's only so much food in the world so god needs to prioritize. Haw haw."

Its not wrong to be given what you like and its certainly not wrong to enjoy it. But try to remember that the world doesn't just consist of you and there are others who've been left out. It doesn't hurt to empathize with the others or even better, help them lobby. But if you don't want to, and thats fine, then STFU and eat your damn food. They're not even asking you to share.

Sadly, thats not how some Dextromancers are behaving. They've already gotten what they want while others didn't, and they feel the need to rub this point in. And whats tragic is I think some of them don't even know that they're doing it.

Parenting is important.

[AgitatedLemon]

Ticktank wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

I don't understand what the hell TickTank is saying.

Sorry if you were confused. English isn't my first language.

I agree that there's no 'betrayal' by BW here. They never explicitly promised that all characters will be available as squadmates. I'm just a little ticked AND amused by the biased attitudes of certain dextromancers here.

Slightly inappropriate metaphor, but bear with me:

Lets use God here. Its like you having the priviledge of eating 3 meals a day, and when you hear some Africans whining to god about hunger you tell them "Hey there's only so much food in the world so god needs to prioritize. Haw haw."

Its not wrong to be given what you like and its certainly not wrong to enjoy it. But try to remember that the world doesn't just consist of you and there are others who've been left out. It doesn't hurt to empathize with the others or even better, help them lobby. But if you don't want to, and thats fine, then STFU and eat your damn food. They're not even asking you to share.

Sadly, thats not how some Dextromancers are behaving. They've already gotten what they want while others didn't, and they feel the need to rub this point in. And whats tragic is I think some of them don't even know that they're doing it.

Parenting is important.

Ah. Yeah, I can see where you're coming from.

[S.A.K]

jamesp81 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Kid Buu wrote...

Also, if the Normandy can destroy the ship, dont you think the entire Alliance fleet could?

Like I said before, it took the Normandy's main batteries being upgraded with repurposed Reaper tech, its shields being repurposed with Quarian tech, and it's hard armor forged by Asari to make it even remotely capable of taking down the Collector ship. And it's entirely possible for the Collectors to have a 2nd or third ship, which would increase their ability exponentially.

Point being, the Alliance navy doesn't have this technology, nor have many (If any at all) actually seen Collectors before, which would imply that they don't know of their tactics/tech, or that they employ husks.

It would certainly be easier than battling Sovereign, but still a worthy challenge.

edit: I think I already expressed my feelings about the ME2 cast in ME3. If not, I'll do so now.

TL;DR, I wish the ME2 cast had a more central role than what they curently do, particularly Mordin, Legion, and Miranda. Their roles are sizeable, but not central. I don't know what Thane or Samara are doing in ME3 (Or if they appear).

Actually, I'm kind of with Buu on this one.  Normandy was cutting edge, granted, but its firepower was probably similar to that of a cruiser made with conventional technology.  The Collectors would've needed one hell of a big ass fleet to defeat the Alliance in a straight up fight.

That said, I do not agree that ME2 was pointless.  Far from it.

ME2 wasn't pointless at all. Only its main plot is pointless.

[naledgeborn]

Ticktank wrote...

Sorry if you were confused. English isn't my first language.

I agree that there's no 'betrayal' by BW here. They never explicitly promised that all characters will be available as squadmates. I'm just a little ticked AND amused by the biased attitudes of certain dextromancers here.

Slightly inappropriate metaphor, but bear with me:

Lets use God here. Its like you having the priviledge of eating 3 meals a day, and when you hear some Africans whining to god about hunger you tell them "Hey there's only so much food in the world so god needs to prioritize. Haw haw."

Its not wrong to be given what you like and its certainly not wrong to enjoy it. But try to remember that the world doesn't just consist of you and there are others who've been left out. It doesn't hurt to empathize with the others or even better, help them lobby. But if you don't want to, and thats fine, then STFU and eat your damn food. They're not even asking you to share.

Sadly, thats not how some Dextromancers are behaving. They've already gotten what they want while others didn't, and they feel the need to rub this point in. And whats tragic is I think some of them don't even know that they're doing it.

Parenting is important.

LOL. If it were still 2011 this would be post of the year.

[AgitatedLemon]

naledgeborn wrote...

Ticktank wrote...

Sorry if you were confused. English isn't my first language.

I agree that there's no 'betrayal' by BW here. They never explicitly promised that all characters will be available as squadmates. I'm just a little ticked AND amused by the biased attitudes of certain dextromancers here.

Slightly inappropriate metaphor, but bear with me:

Lets use God here. Its like you having the priviledge of eating 3 meals a day, and when you hear some Africans whining to god about hunger you tell them "Hey there's only so much food in the world so god needs to prioritize. Haw haw."

Its not wrong to be given what you like and its certainly not wrong to enjoy it. But try to remember that the world doesn't just consist of you and there are others who've been left out. It doesn't hurt to empathize with the others or even better, help them lobby. But if you don't want to, and thats fine, then STFU and eat your damn food. They're not even asking you to share.

Sadly, thats not how some Dextromancers are behaving. They've already gotten what they want while others didn't, and they feel the need to rub this point in. And whats tragic is I think some of them don't even know that they're doing it.

Parenting is important.

LOL. If it were still 2011 this would be post of the year.

Yes,  it would.

[who would know]

• Vega
• Liara
• Legion*
• Garrus
• Tali
• Kaidan/Ashley (player choice)
• Prothean
• Miranda/Mordin (player choice)

And all would've been well with the world.

*Legion completes the triad of squad balance that begins with Vega and Liara. Dead? He copied himself to another platform. Sold? Non-optional rescue mission. This way, the squad is guaranteed an Adept, Soldier and Engineer.

And for the record, Aria > Liara.

Modifié par who would know, 06 janvier 2012 - 12:16 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

naledgeborn wrote...

Ticktank wrote...

Sorry if you were confused. English isn't my first language.

I agree that there's no 'betrayal' by BW here. They never explicitly promised that all characters will be available as squadmates. I'm just a little ticked AND amused by the biased attitudes of certain dextromancers here.

Slightly inappropriate metaphor, but bear with me:

Lets use God here. Its like you having the priviledge of eating 3 meals a day, and when you hear some Africans whining to god about hunger you tell them "Hey there's only so much food in the world so god needs to prioritize. Haw haw."

Its not wrong to be given what you like and its certainly not wrong to enjoy it. But try to remember that the world doesn't just consist of you and there are others who've been left out. It doesn't hurt to empathize with the others or even better, help them lobby. But if you don't want to, and thats fine, then STFU and eat your damn food. They're not even asking you to share.

Sadly, thats not how some Dextromancers are behaving. They've already gotten what they want while others didn't, and they feel the need to rub this point in. And whats tragic is I think some of them don't even know that they're doing it.

Parenting is important.

LOL. If it were still 2011 this would be post of the year.

Yes,  it would.

It's a great early nominee for post of 2012, though.

who would know wrote...

• Vega
• Liara
• Legion*
• Garrus
• Tali
• Kaidan/Ashley (player choice)
• Prothean
• Miranda/Mordin (player choice)

And all would've been well with the world.

*Legion completes the triad of squad balance that begins with Vega and Liara. Dead? He copied himself to another platform. Sold? Non-optional rescue mission. This way, the squad is still guaranteed an Adept, Soldier and Engineer.

Or just give a Cerberus-Legion to a pro-Cerberus Shepard. And Legion is more justified to return than Garrus and Tali, given his rather late appearance last game (like Oghren in Awakening).

Still not sure why the hell we're getting Liara as well, seeing how LotSB set her up for a major supporting role, kind of like a Paragon TIM. But then again, her rabid fanbois and gurls have been demanding her for ages, not seeing how it would ruin another story arc of hers... Sigh, I guess love really does blind, huh?

[Seboist]

Legion better belongs on the squad than the dextros since his whole purpose is to be mobile platform that operates independently from the geth collective and an ambassador of sorts to organics.

[Xilizhra]

The suicide mission was a terrible idea to begin with and implementing it badly tied Bioware's hands.

As for the ME1 squadmates, I don't believe it would have made tremendous narrative sense to sideline them for the last game when they'd been there the first two, and quite frankly less sense than sidelining Miranda. While it's true that MIranda is heavily tied to Cerberus, she isn't Shepard's link with Cerberus, even in ME2; TIM was personally involved in Shepard's return and speaks directly with Shepard more frequently than he does with Miranda. There's plenty of room for their rivalry to be totally personal without Miranda being around.

Now, is that good for fans of the characters? Well, no. That's why there shouldn't have been a suicide mission. But to demand equal treatment for everyone is to demand infinite resources from Bioware, which is sadly doomed to failure. The forums would be so very much worse with the rage had Garrus and Tali been sidelined, and I believe Bioware made the smartest financial decision, and not a terrible storytelling one.

[CptData]

^
Xilizhra: actually, BW showed how to allow ME1 squadmates to reappear in ME2 with an important role without putting them into danger to die at the end: Liara. She had her own DLC, had her own story arc and even was part of the squad (for a short time).

Don't know why it wasn't possible for Wrex and the VS. Whatever ... old debate is old ^^

[Xilizhra]

All three of them might be dead. Wrex might be completely dead, and the VS might be stuck in a DLC that isn't sufficiently tailored to their personalities.

[CptData]

Xilizhra wrote...

All three of them might be dead. Wrex might be completely dead, and the VS might be stuck in a DLC that isn't sufficiently tailored to their personalities.

Dunno. Arrival was a great opportunity to add the VS. It's not too difficult to make it happen, even if there's no romance development (or very little, like in LotSB). After all, it was Hackett who asked Shepard to do that mission. I can't see an issue why Hackett shouldn't send the VS with Shepard.

You're right about the part "Kaidan & Ashley could be too similar". Indeed. It looks like as if BW saved a lot of money here by not caring for the VS. They do / did in ME3 (Kaidan & Ashley have the same role in the main plot, but they're not the same in private) - which is great.

As I said, old debate is old. I'm fine with the current situation and hope for a great story in ME3 - also including my fave squadmate.

BTW: where did you have been? Missed your Avatar for a while now

[Xilizhra]

BTW: where did you have been? Missed your Avatar for a while now

I got pulled back into the WoW community before realizing that it really wasn't that good. Or at least not to my taste. I'm still playing the game, but posting about it less.

[WhiteKnyght]

who would know wrote...

Mac Walters interview wrote...

"I don't think I'd call it 'trapped'," he explained, when asked how he felt about having to accommodate several possible player decisions at key plot junctures. "They're more hurdles. Sometimes they're hurdles that we've given ourselves, so we kind of smack ourselves in the head and say 'What the hell were we thinking? Why did we do that?'

The classic example is 'Hey, let's make the ending of Mass Effect 2 a suicide mission where all your henchmen can possibly die, and Shepard can even die!' Oh right... and then we're gonna do another game after that. What the hell are we gonna do with all those guys?"

BioWare's answer to this question seems to be to sideline the entire cast that ME2 introduced. This is a legitimate solution in the face of just how over-ambitious the Suicide Mission was for part two of three, but the answer could've and should've been something else:

Import into ME3 should've only been allowed if certain key party members survived ME2.

Justify it (or don't, because variable reduction is justification enough) like this: With them dead, the war may as well be unwinnable.

I'm thinking of Miranda, and I'm thinking of Mordin.

When I look at Miranda, I see someone who, regardless of my or anyone's personal take or opinion on her as a character, would've been a natural fit for ME3's squad, given how Cerberus-centric a conclusion it seems to be. Anything less would be an injustice and obvious contrivance. She was also the director of Shepard's resurrection and was painted as one of the most competent party members at our disposal.

When I look at Mordin, I see the most multi-faceted personality the series has offered yet. He doesn't have the largest fan thread, but he is almost universally beloved, and succinctly, Mordin was to Mass Effect 2 what The Joker was to The Dark Knight. Anything less than a role that once again placed him at the forefront, at Shepard's side once more as advisor, genius, and friend, would be a missed opportunity, especially considering the eleventh-hour state the galaxy is in.

It wouldn't have been hard for players to revisit a save file and redo the Suicide Mission to get a valid import, either, unless they'd completed lots of content post-S.M. That's the only way I can see anybody getting bitter about it. After all, a severely botched S.M. was a deliberate construction, and Miranda was harder to kill than most...

Also, a digression, since I'm in the mood for a "what could have been" circlejerk: regarding the supposed need for ME3's core squad to invariably make available the pure skill sets of soldier, adept and engineer, those roles could also have been filled by Vega, Aria and Legion. Not overly relevant in the grand scheme of this particular thread, but something I wanted to say.

Your thoughts?

It seems to me that the end of ME3 is going to be based on how much resources/assets there are to Shepard's army. More people that survived ME2 and better choices throughout ME1/2/3 give greater chances and better endings. Since arguably certain choices can net Shepard with powerful allies.

Example: Gaining Legion's trust and completing his quest by reprogramming the Heretics gives Shepard a greater number of Geth troops(who are technologically advanced compared to the standard set by Cerberus and Citadel Space) to fight the reapers. Wheras destroying them would lessen your chances and not doing the mission at all would leave the Reapers with millions of Heretic Geth to fight against you.

As for Miranda, considering that Cerberus ends up becoming indoctrinated and siding with the Reapers, I doubt she'll have much to bring to the table aside from her Biotic abilities and cunning mind. Unless the number of Cerberus troops that are indoctrinated is determined by whether or not you destroyed the Collector base.(Collector tech came from the Reapers, so chances are that some of it can indoctrinate people.)

As for Mordin, the guy's brilliance would make a valuable asset, espectially if he could find a way to bypass the Reapers' mass effect fields or how to trigger some sort of self-destruct mechanism inside them.

I also think sparing Wrex will give your chances a boost. Considering he's been working to unite the clans on Tuchanka he may have largely succeeded by the time ME3 starts. And him being friends with Shepard means he has an army of seven foot, 1000 pound lizard men at his disposal.

The more you stack the deck in your favor, the greater odds you have.