242 réponses à ce sujet

[Kid Buu]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Kid Buu wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

And Im saying it wouldnt. If a Normandy can destroy a collector ship so easily then some dreadnaughts and an entire fleet would decimate them. And why are you talking about ground forces? The point is that they wont get to use them because they wont make it to earth. They would have a hard time boarding any ships as well because theya re so Alliance ships. It would make no differencce if there were 2 ships or 1. The collectors would have no chance.

It wasn't necessarily "So easily", considering 2 Oculus' physically entered into the cargo, and the Collector's personally infiltrating the ship and kidnapping the crew. If it weren't for Shepard intervening when he did, the Oculus' alone would have probably killed everyone on board, seeing as how they can burn through the Normandy's armor as well.

Remember the prologue cutscene. The Collector ship basically saws the Normandy in half before it blows. The only reason the Normandy stands a realistic chance is because of the Cerberus upgrades, which the Alliance doesn't endorse, and the Reaper/Quarian/Asari upgrades, which the Alliance ships will almost definitely not have. They also don't have Joker, who is arguably one of the best pilots in SciFi. And, I'll say again, the Normandy is more powerful than most cruiser type vessels, it was designed that way. Average Joe's cruiser won't stand a chance against a Collector Ship. It also wasn't just the Thanix cannon that hit the Collector ship. It was also equipped with Javelin missiles and GARDIAN turrets, which by itself is more defence than Average Joe's cruiser.


edit: removed huge pyramid of replies.

edit 2: The entire human navy has 8 dreadnoughts, and dreadnoughts can't land on-world due to their size. If it wasn't already there, it won't get there.

Everthing youa re saying makes no sense. The collectore ship was able to sneak up on the Normandy because of the IFF. At the beginning of the game, the the ship destroyed the Normandy because the stealth systems were nulified and thats what the Normandy relied on for defence. Even then though, an entire fleet would completely nulify the collector ships. Why would a dreadnaught need to land on a planet? A few oculi and Collector ships would sill get torn apart easily. Earth clearly has more than the average Joe`s cruiser defending it. And yes, the fight against the collector ship was easy, even with no thanix cannon or armor upgrade.

How does what I said make no sense?

And of course the Normandy is going to take down the Ship in-game (Regardless of armaments). It's a video game, it's scripted, like how Shepard CAME BACK TO LIFE after 2 years. If anyone were to apply real-world military to it, the Collector ship should have torn the SR2 apart as easily as it did the SR1, which it didn't because it had magical plot armor. Aside from the Thanix cannon, the only weapon that otherwise would have destroyed the Collector Ship are the Javelins, which only the Normandy has, and in limited supply.

I explained why you make no sense. And WHAT? A random AA turret on Horizon drove off the Collector ship and you are saying an entire fleet wouldnt? What evidence do you have that only the Normandy could destroy the collector ship? It seem like you are just making things up despite obvious proof to what Im saying in game.

[AgitatedLemon]

I explained why you make no sense. And WHAT? A random AA turret on Horizon drove off the Collector ship and you are saying an entire fleet wouldnt? What evidence do you have that only the Normandy could destroy the collector ship? It seem like you are just making things up despite obvious proof to what Im saying in game.

You didn't explain anything. You just said "You make no sense" then went off.

It wasn't some random turret, it was a small army of those "Small turrets", which aren't that small. That "Small turret" also got a LOT of shots on the Collector Ship.

I never once said "Only the Normandy can take out a Collector Ship", unless you can find it.

[CptData]

Kid Buu wrote...

Seboist wrote...

I'd say that making a "suicide mission" where it's easier to have everyone survive than perish was a bad idea. It made the whole thing pointless.

What really annoys me is that theres a suicide mission in ME2 where you dont really accomplish anything. You kill a human reaper and the collectors who were making it. So? What was the reaper going to do? Attack the citadel? Last I checked theres a  lot  more reapers on the way.

The Reapers were on their way already (= Arrival). Think the Human Reaper was originally intended as "Plan B" in case of Sovereign fails.

What I don't understand is this - it looks as if the Reapers are a good deal away from the Milky Way when you saw them the last time: you can see the entire galaxy. That means they're still dozens or hundreds of years away, even with FTL travel.
In Arrival it looks as if they're pretty much at the edge of the Bahak system already and just need to travel to the Alpha Relay. That's odd. If they can travel a distance of at least one or two full galaxy diameters within few days, why do they still need the Mass Relay Network? I don't get it.
Either the Reapers don't need it, so they created it for the civilizations they want to reap. And how does it help to take down the Alpha Relay if it doesn't make any difference? Or the Reapers used another secret entrance that's really close to the Bahak System and connected to the Mass Relay in the void where they were hybernating. In that case it may work, but then they wouldn't need the Human Reaper as Sovereign 2.0.

Either way, the Suicide Run feels like a skirmish instead of an important part of the war <_<

[Kid Buu]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

I explained why you make no sense. And WHAT? A random AA turret on Horizon drove off the Collector ship and you are saying an entire fleet wouldnt? What evidence do you have that only the Normandy could destroy the collector ship? It seem like you are just making things up despite obvious proof to what Im saying in game.

You didn't explain anything. You just said "You make no sense" then went off.

It wasn't some random turret, it was a small army of those "Small turrets", which aren't that small. That "Small turret" also got a LOT of shots on the Collector Ship.

I never once said "Only the Normandy can take out a Collector Ship", unless you can find it.

You said only thanix/Javeline cannon can take it out and then said only the Normandy has those.

When did I say SMALL turrets?

If a few colony turrets can drive it off, then what do you think Earth deffences would do?

And yes, I WENT OFF to explain why you make no sense.

Modifié par Kid Buu, 02 janvier 2012 - 11:07 .

[Kid Buu]

CptData wrote...

Kid Buu wrote...

Seboist wrote...

I'd say that making a "suicide mission" where it's easier to have everyone survive than perish was a bad idea. It made the whole thing pointless.

What really annoys me is that theres a suicide mission in ME2 where you dont really accomplish anything. You kill a human reaper and the collectors who were making it. So? What was the reaper going to do? Attack the citadel? Last I checked theres a  lot  more reapers on the way.

The Reapers were on their way already (= Arrival). Think the Human Reaper was originally intended as "Plan B" in case of Sovereign fails.

What I don't understand is this - it looks as if the Reapers are a good deal away from the Milky Way when you saw them the last time: you can see the entire galaxy. That means they're still dozens or hundreds of years away, even with FTL travel.
In Arrival it looks as if they're pretty much at the edge of the Bahak system already and just need to travel to the Alpha Relay. That's odd. If they can travel a distance of at least one or two full galaxy diameters within few days, why do they still need the Mass Relay Network? I don't get it.
Either the Reapers don't need it, so they created it for the civilizations they want to reap. And how does it help to take down the Alpha Relay if it doesn't make any difference? Or the Reapers used another secret entrance that's really close to the Bahak System and connected to the Mass Relay in the void where they were hybernating. In that case it may work, but then they wouldn't need the Human Reaper as Sovereign 2.0.

Either way, the Suicide Run feels like a skirmish instead of an important part of the war <_<

I assumed so as well, but what would it do agianst all the defences at the citadel? Not to mention their defence is better now. On top of this, they would need to get through the earth defences just to complete the reaper. And Soveriegn was defeated despite having an army of geth. Even Arrival is pointless, all you really accomplish is delaying the Reapers, which is pointless seeing as how no one prepares for them anyway. The reapers could not have had much confidence in plan B.

Modifié par Kid Buu, 02 janvier 2012 - 11:05 .

[AgitatedLemon]

Kid Buu wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

I explained why you make no sense. And WHAT? A random AA turret on Horizon drove off the Collector ship and you are saying an entire fleet wouldnt? What evidence do you have that only the Normandy could destroy the collector ship? It seem like you are just making things up despite obvious proof to what Im saying in game.

You didn't explain anything. You just said "You make no sense" then went off.

It wasn't some random turret, it was a small army of those "Small turrets", which aren't that small. That "Small turret" also got a LOT of shots on the Collector Ship.

I never once said "Only the Normandy can take out a Collector Ship", unless you can find it.

You said only thanix/Javeline cannon can take it out and then said only the Normandy has those.

When did I say SMALL turrets?

If a few colony turrets can drive it off, then what do you think Earth deffences would do?

And yes, I WENT OFF to explain why you make no sense.

Tag it with quotes, because I can't find it.

[Kid Buu]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Kid Buu wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

I explained why you make no sense. And WHAT? A random AA turret on Horizon drove off the Collector ship and you are saying an entire fleet wouldnt? What evidence do you have that only the Normandy could destroy the collector ship? It seem like you are just making things up despite obvious proof to what Im saying in game.

You didn't explain anything. You just said "You make no sense" then went off.

It wasn't some random turret, it was a small army of those "Small turrets", which aren't that small. That "Small turret" also got a LOT of shots on the Collector Ship.

I never once said "Only the Normandy can take out a Collector Ship", unless you can find it.

You said only thanix/Javeline cannon can take it out and then said only the Normandy has those.

When did I say SMALL turrets?

If a few colony turrets can drive it off, then what do you think Earth deffences would do?

And yes, I WENT OFF to explain why you make no sense.

Tag it with quotes, because I can't find it.

..... I have endured your trolling for now as I have had time to do nothing while queue in SWTOR. But now, I am done.

Modifié par Kid Buu, 02 janvier 2012 - 11:15 .

[AgitatedLemon]

Exactly. I never once said "Only the Normandy can take out a Collector Ship".

But I guess making things up to support your own point makes you LOOK smart, if nothing else.

You seem pretty insistent on the notion that I saod ONLY the Normandy can tackle a Collector Ship. You have yet to prove so, and that makes ME the troll?

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 02 janvier 2012 - 11:16 .

[Kid Buu]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Kid Buu wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

And Im saying it wouldnt. If a Normandy can destroy a collector ship so easily then some dreadnaughts and an entire fleet would decimate them. And why are you talking about ground forces? The point is that they wont get to use them because they wont make it to earth. They would have a hard time boarding any ships as well because theya re so Alliance ships. It would make no differencce if there were 2 ships or 1. The collectors would have no chance.

It wasn't necessarily "So easily", considering 2 Oculus' physically entered into the cargo, and the Collector's personally infiltrating the ship and kidnapping the crew. If it weren't for Shepard intervening when he did, the Oculus' alone would have probably killed everyone on board, seeing as how they can burn through the Normandy's armor as well.

Remember the prologue cutscene. The Collector ship basically saws the Normandy in half before it blows. The only reason the Normandy stands a realistic chance is because of the Cerberus upgrades, which the Alliance doesn't endorse, and the Reaper/Quarian/Asari upgrades, which the Alliance ships will almost definitely not have. They also don't have Joker, who is arguably one of the best pilots in SciFi. And, I'll say again, the Normandy is more powerful than most cruiser type vessels, it was designed that way. Average Joe's cruiser won't stand a chance against a Collector Ship. It also wasn't just the Thanix cannon that hit the Collector ship. It was also equipped with Javelin missiles and GARDIAN turrets, which by itself is more defence than Average Joe's cruiser.


edit: removed huge pyramid of replies.

edit 2: The entire human navy has 8 dreadnoughts, and dreadnoughts can't land on-world due to their size. If it wasn't already there, it won't get there.

Everthing youa re saying makes no sense. The collectore ship was able to sneak up on the Normandy because of the IFF. At the beginning of the game, the the ship destroyed the Normandy because the stealth systems were nulified and thats what the Normandy relied on for defence. Even then though, an entire fleet would completely nulify the collector ships. Why would a dreadnaught need to land on a planet? A few oculi and Collector ships would sill get torn apart easily. Earth clearly has more than the average Joe`s cruiser defending it. And yes, the fight against the collector ship was easy, even with no thanix cannon or armor upgrade.

How does what I said make no sense?

And of course the Normandy is going to take down the Ship in-game (Regardless of armaments). It's a video game, it's scripted, like how Shepard CAME BACK TO LIFE after 2 years. If anyone were to apply real-world military to it, the Collector ship should have torn the SR2 apart as easily as it did the SR1, which it didn't because it had magical plot armor. Aside from the Thanix cannon, the only weapon that otherwise would have destroyed the Collector Ship are the Javelins, which only the Normandy has, and in limited supply.

Checkmate, my friend. Ill admit you did convince me to reply. And in case you say ``Turian ships have Thanix cannons``, we are talking about the human fleet here, and that only help my point that they would be unable to surpass the citadel defences.

Modifié par Kid Buu, 02 janvier 2012 - 11:23 .

[AgitatedLemon]

Aside from the Thanix cannon, the only weapon that otherwise would have destroyed the Collector Ship are the Javelins, which only the Normandy has, and in limited supply.

Checkmate, my friend. Ill admit you did convince me to reply.

Reading comprehension. It's your friend. Reading the entirety of my post instead of 1 sentence would also help.

The Normandy has 3 weapons on it that we know of. GARDIAN turrets, Javelin missiles, and the Thanix cannon. 2 of these can destroy the Collector ship, and 1 of these is outfitted only on the Normandy. Comprende?

[Kid Buu]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Aside from the Thanix cannon, the only weapon that otherwise would have destroyed the Collector Ship are the Javelins, which only the Normandy has, and in limited supply.

Checkmate, my friend. Ill admit you did convince me to reply.

Reading comprehension. It's your friend. Reading the entirety of my post instead of 1 sentence would also help.

The Normandy has 3 weapons on it that we know of. GARDIAN turrets, Javelin missiles, and the Thanix cannon. 2 of these can destroy the Collector ship, and 1 of these is outfitted only on the Normandy. Comprende?

You say Javeline and Thanix (as the Thanix cannon wouldnt be on an Alliance ship) are the only ones that can take out a ship and say they are both only on the Normandy...
Checkmate. I have yet again proven to be smarter than most people on this forum.

Modifié par Kid Buu, 02 janvier 2012 - 11:28 .

[AgitatedLemon]

So "The only weapons on the Normandy capable of taking on a Collector Ship, Thanix Cannon and Javelins aren't found anywhere else" = Nothing else can take out Collector Ship?

I'll say it again. Reading Comprehension. It's your friend. It also helps if you read the entirety of my post instead of the last sentence.

I mean, you ARE aware that I'm talking about the Normandy, and only the Normandy, yeah?

If you were accusing me of saying the only weapons ON THE NORMANDY capable of taking down the Collector Ship were the Thanix/Javelins, then yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

[CptData]

Just for the record ...

The Collector cruiser is pretty much vulnerable to any weapon except GARDIAN. A dreadnaught will make minced meat out of that cruiser. The Collector beam weapon isn't too powerful - it took several direct hits to destroy the Normandy SR1 (which got caught on surprise). Compared to Sovereign's main weapon (which can destroy any Alliance cruiser with one direct hit), the Collector beam weapon is far less powerful.

An Alliance cruiser might be able to damage the Collector cruiser. A small fleet of three cruisers and four or five frigates should be enough to take down that cruiser. And the Collectors knew that, otherwise they wouldn't go for undefended colonies deep in the Traverse or the Terminus Systems.


The THANIX canon is far more powerful than the Collector beam weapon. It was stated it grants the firepower of a cruiser to a frigate.
Overall, the Normandy SR2 packs the firepower of a cruiser with the mobility of a frigate - which helps greatly to defeat that cruiser without any damage.

Modifié par CptData, 02 janvier 2012 - 11:38 .

[Kid Buu]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

So "The only weapons on the Normandy capable of taking on a Collector Ship, Thanix Cannon and Javelins aren't found anywhere else" = Nothing else can take out Collector Ship?

I'll say it again. Reading Comprehension. It's your friend. It also helps if you read the entirety of my post instead of the last sentence.

I mean, you ARE aware that I'm talking about the Normandy, and only the Normandy, yeah?

If you were accusing me of saying the only weapons ON THE NORMANDY capable of taking down the Collector Ship were the Thanix/Javelins, then yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

Then whats your point? A normandy with a none upgraded gun and non upgraded armor can take out ship with ease, not to mention some AA turrets on a colony can drive it off (on would assume they can destroy the ship as weell otherrwise the ship wouldnt LEAVE), so you think a few collector ships can take on the alliance fleet? That is funny. Make intelect your friend. No one else will agree with you on this.

Modifié par Kid Buu, 02 janvier 2012 - 11:38 .

[Kid Buu]

CptData wrote...

Just for the record ...

The Collector cruiser is pretty much vulnerable to any weapon except GARDIAN. A dreadnaught will make minced meat out of that cruiser. The Collector beam weapon isn't too powerful - it took several direct hits to destroy the Normandy SR1 (which got caught on surprise). Compared to Sovereign's main weapon (which can destroy any Alliance cruiser with one direct hit), the Collector beam weapon is far less powerful.

An Alliance cruiser might be able to damage the Collector cruiser. A small fleet of three cruisers and four or five frigates should be enough to take down that cruiser. And the Collectors knew that, otherwise they wouldn't go for undefended colonies deep in the Traverse or the Terminus Systems.


The THANIX canon is far more powerful than the Collector beam weapon. It was stated it grants the firepower of a cruiser to a frigate.

Exactly. Lemon is just giving himself a bad rep here.

[AgitatedLemon]

CptData wrote...

Just for the record ...

The Collector cruiser is pretty much vulnerable to any weapon except GARDIAN. A dreadnaught will make minced meat out of that cruiser. The Collector beam weapon isn't too powerful - it took several direct hits to destroy the Normandy SR1 (which got caught on surprise). Compared to Sovereign's main weapon (which can destroy any Alliance cruiser with one direct hit), the Collector beam weapon is far less powerful.

An Alliance cruiser might be able to damage the Collector cruiser. A small fleet of three cruisers and four or five frigates should be enough to take down that cruiser. And the Collectors knew that, otherwise they wouldn't go for undefended colonies deep in the Traverse or the Terminus Systems.


The THANIX canon is far more powerful than the Collector beam weapon. It was stated it grants the firepower of a cruiser to a frigate.

A dreadnought will make mincemeat out of basically anything. Don't see your point.

The first hit from the Collector beam tore the hull of the Normandy open. Then 2nd hit sawed it in half and caused the explosion that through Shepard out. Comparing it to Sovereign's guns is like saying that my Nuke will kill people faster than your hand grenade.

A small fleet is still a fleet, and the Alliance almmost certainly doesn't have the alien based tech that the Normandy has. The only one I could see being on generic Alliance ships is the hard armor, but that's a stretch. And it's impossible to give the Normandy such a clean victory  over the Collector Ship for 3 main reasons. First, it was designed to be better than most other cruiser type vessels in use, despite being a frigate. It's a prototype, and that's its entire purpose for existing. 2nd, If you don't get the Thanix cannon, then the Normandy gets REALLY close to the ship and fires its Javelins, expending them and sustaining very severe damage. Plus a squadmate dies. 3, the Normandy sustains heavy damage regardless of the outcome, and it's hull is penetrated by Oculus' laser beams.

Hell, I'll say 4 reasons. 4, it's a video game where you're SUPPOSED TO WIN. Of course the Normandy is going to destroy the ship, it's scripted to.

The Alliance wouldn't protect the Terminus colonies anyway. The Terminus colonies were founded for the exact purpose of NOT being bound by the Alliance. The Alliance doesn't care about them. The only reason Kaidan/Ash was at Horizon was because of possible Cerberus involvement. That's the biggest reasons the Collectors targeted the Terminus.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 02 janvier 2012 - 11:52 .

[Kid Buu]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

CptData wrote...

Just for the record ...

The Collector cruiser is pretty much vulnerable to any weapon except GARDIAN. A dreadnaught will make minced meat out of that cruiser. The Collector beam weapon isn't too powerful - it took several direct hits to destroy the Normandy SR1 (which got caught on surprise). Compared to Sovereign's main weapon (which can destroy any Alliance cruiser with one direct hit), the Collector beam weapon is far less powerful.

An Alliance cruiser might be able to damage the Collector cruiser. A small fleet of three cruisers and four or five frigates should be enough to take down that cruiser. And the Collectors knew that, otherwise they wouldn't go for undefended colonies deep in the Traverse or the Terminus Systems.


The THANIX canon is far more powerful than the Collector beam weapon. It was stated it grants the firepower of a cruiser to a frigate.

A dreadnought will make mincemeat out of basically anything. Don't see your point.

The first hit from the Collector beam tore the hull of the Normandy open. Then 2nd hit sawed it in half and caused the explosion that through Shepard out. Comparing it to Sovereign's guns is like saying that my Nuke will kill people faster than your hand grenade.

A small fleet is still a fleet, and the Alliance almmost certainly doesn't have the alien based tech that the Normandy has. The only one I could see being on generic Alliance ships is the hard armor, but that's a stretch. And it's impossible to give the Normandy such a clean victory  over the Collector Ship for 3 main reasons. First, it was designed to be better than most other cruiser type vessels in use, despite being a frigate. It's a prototype, and that's its entire purpose for existing. 2nd, If you don't get the Thanix cannon, then the Normandy gets REALLY close to the ship and fires its Javelins, expending them and sustaining very severe damage. Plus a squadmate dies. 3, the Normandy sustains heavy damage regardless of the outcome, and it's hull is penetrated by Oculus' laser beams.

Hell, I'll say 4 reasons. 4, it's a video game where you're SUPPOSED TO WIN. Of course the Normandy is going to destroy the ship, it's scripted to.

The Alliance wouldn't protect the Terminus colonies anyway. The Terminus colonies were founded for the exact purpose of NOT being bound by the Alliance. The Alliance doesn't care about them. The only reason Kaidan/Ash was at Horizon was because of possible Cerberus involvement. That's the biggest reasons the Collectors targeted the Terminus.

THEN WHAT CHANCE DOES A COLLECCTOR SHIP HAVE? YOU JUST PROVED OUR POINT. Again, some random AA turrets can destroy the ship, so I think its safe to to say, the Alliance navy can.

Modifié par Kid Buu, 02 janvier 2012 - 12:05 .

[AgitatedLemon]

Kid Buu wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

CptData wrote...

Just for the record ...

The Collector cruiser is pretty much vulnerable to any weapon except GARDIAN. A dreadnaught will make minced meat out of that cruiser. The Collector beam weapon isn't too powerful - it took several direct hits to destroy the Normandy SR1 (which got caught on surprise). Compared to Sovereign's main weapon (which can destroy any Alliance cruiser with one direct hit), the Collector beam weapon is far less powerful.

An Alliance cruiser might be able to damage the Collector cruiser. A small fleet of three cruisers and four or five frigates should be enough to take down that cruiser. And the Collectors knew that, otherwise they wouldn't go for undefended colonies deep in the Traverse or the Terminus Systems.


The THANIX canon is far more powerful than the Collector beam weapon. It was stated it grants the firepower of a cruiser to a frigate.

A dreadnought will make mincemeat out of basically anything. Don't see your point.

The first hit from the Collector beam tore the hull of the Normandy open. Then 2nd hit sawed it in half and caused the explosion that through Shepard out. Comparing it to Sovereign's guns is like saying that my Nuke will kill people faster than your hand grenade.

A small fleet is still a fleet, and the Alliance almmost certainly doesn't have the alien based tech that the Normandy has. The only one I could see being on generic Alliance ships is the hard armor, but that's a stretch. And it's impossible to give the Normandy such a clean victory  over the Collector Ship for 3 main reasons. First, it was designed to be better than most other cruiser type vessels in use, despite being a frigate. It's a prototype, and that's its entire purpose for existing. 2nd, If you don't get the Thanix cannon, then the Normandy gets REALLY close to the ship and fires its Javelins, expending them and sustaining very severe damage. Plus a squadmate dies. 3, the Normandy sustains heavy damage regardless of the outcome, and it's hull is penetrated by Oculus' laser beams.

Hell, I'll say 4 reasons. 4, it's a video game where you're SUPPOSED TO WIN. Of course the Normandy is going to destroy the ship, it's scripted to.

The Alliance wouldn't protect the Terminus colonies anyway. The Terminus colonies were founded for the exact purpose of NOT being bound by the Alliance. The Alliance doesn't care about them. The only reason Kaidan/Ash was at Horizon was because of possible Cerberus involvement. That's the biggest reasons the Collectors targeted the Terminus.

THEN WHAT CHANCE DOES A COLLECCTOR SHIP HAVE? YOU JUST PROVED OUR POINT.

The humans have 8 dreadnoughts.

Humans have X amount of territory.

THERE'S NO GUARANTEE THAT A DREADNOUGHT IS EVEN AT EARTH.

[Kid Buu]

/facepalm

[AgitatedLemon]

Lack of response.

Fairly typical.

[CptData]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

A dreadnought will make mincemeat out of basically anything. Don't see your point.

Tell that the Reapers
An Alliance Dreadnaught is basically a large gun with a ship built around it. As seen in the leaked beta, that dreadnaught wasn't able to destroy a single Reaper (think the ship in low orbit was a Dreadnaught).

The first hit from the Collector beam tore the hull of the Normandy open. Then 2nd hit sawed it in half and caused the explosion that through Shepard out. Comparing it to Sovereign's guns is like saying that my Nuke will kill people faster than your hand grenade.

Wrong. I don't really want to analyze that battle now, but it took far more hits to take down the Normandy. But I don't need to do that anyways - as you can see in the vid, the first hit damaged the engines of the SR1. It did not tore the Normandy open. It took several hits in the open chest (through the open ceilling) before the Normandy got cut in half. I'd say the Collectors had to fire between 6 - 10 times until they destroyed that frigate.

A small fleet is still a fleet, and the Alliance almmost certainly doesn't have the alien based tech that the Normandy has. The only one I could see being on generic Alliance ships is the hard armor, but that's a stretch. And it's impossible to give the Normandy such a clean victory  over the Collector Ship for 3 main reasons. First, it was designed to be better than most other cruiser type vessels in use, despite being a frigate. It's a prototype, and that's its entire purpose for existing. 2nd, If you don't get the Thanix cannon, then the Normandy gets REALLY close to the ship and fires its Javelins, expending them and sustaining very severe damage. Plus a squadmate dies. 3, the Normandy sustains heavy damage regardless of the outcome, and it's hull is penetrated by Oculus' laser beams.

Think you're not correct here.

The Alliance ships are not that much weaker than Turian ships and were even able to drive them back. The Alliance got a seat in the Council because they're able to field a powerful fleet - which seems to be one of the prerequesites to become a member of the Council. Have you ever wondered why the Volus aren't part of the Council? Because they don't have much of a military.

Given that fact, I wouldn't call Alliance ships inferior to the other race's ships.

The Normandy SR1 AND SR2 were designed as reconnaissance ship. Remember the stealth system? Doesn't fit on board of a warship.
The SR1 was never intended to act as frontline ship. It should sneak behind enemy lines and count numbers of enemy vessels before falling back and let the fleet do their job.
Cerberus constructed the new Normandy SR2 and even TIM didn't know what was waiting behind the O4 Relay. However, TIM knew about the Collectors. He also knew about their cruisers. Therefore Cerberus constructed a Normandy SR2 that was able to deal with a Collector cruiser.
It was able to do so with its vanilla weapon and it was more than able to kill that cruiser with the Thanix Canon. The death of a squadmate is scripted (so you have to research that canon to prevent that death), besides that, the SR2 had no real problems with that cruiser. The Normandy never got hit, any damage done to her was by debries or the Oculus drones.

Hell, I'll say 4 reasons. 4, it's a video game where you're SUPPOSED TO WIN. Of course the Normandy is going to destroy the ship, it's scripted to.

The Alliance wouldn't protect the Terminus colonies anyway. The Terminus colonies were founded for the exact purpose of NOT being bound by the Alliance. The Alliance doesn't care about them. The only reason Kaidan/Ash was at Horizon was because of possible Cerberus involvement. That's the biggest reasons the Collectors targeted the Terminus.

I concur with those points, especially the first one.
Actually, it would have been more fun to see the Normandy SR2 getting blown into thousand tiny bits by the Collector cruiser when not buying the upgrades. However, it didn't happen, either because it was intended to happen like that OR because of Joker's skills. As long as we're talking about that issue we should pretend everything INGAME happens not because of writing but doing of the characters in that game.
Makes things more easy.

If we're no longer doing it this way, we also could say half of ME2 was pointless because of writer's decisions.

[AgitatedLemon]

It's 2 visible hits, though I'd say it was 3, not 6-10. 1st one killed Pressly, then another one tore open the CIC hull while Ash and Shepard were talking (Probably the cause of the explosion that occurred), and a 3rd, concentrated beam tore the Normandy in half and made it explode.

Think you're not correct here.

The Alliance ships are not that much weaker than Turian ships and were even able to drive them back. The Alliance got a seat in the Council because they're able to field a powerful fleet - which seems to be one of the prerequesites to become a member of the Council. Have you ever wondered why the Volus aren't part of the Council? Because they don't have much of a military.

Given that fact, I wouldn't call Alliance ships inferior to the other race's ships.

The Normandy SR1 AND SR2 were designed as reconnaissance ship. Remember the stealth system? Doesn't fit on board of a warship.
The SR1 was never intended to act as frontline ship. It should sneak behind enemy lines and count numbers of enemy vessels before falling back and let the fleet do their job.
Cerberus constructed the new Normandy SR2 and even TIM didn't know what was waiting behind the O4 Relay. However, TIM knew about the Collectors. He also knew about their cruisers. Therefore Cerberus constructed a Normandy SR2 that was able to deal with a Collector cruiser.
It was able to do so with its vanilla weapon and it was more than able to kill that cruiser with the Thanix Canon. The death of a squadmate is scripted (so you have to research that canon to prevent that death), besides that, the SR2 had no real problems with that cruiser. The Normandy never got hit, any damage done to her was by debries or the Oculus drones.

1. The Alliance is all human. The Normandy was co-developed by both the humans and the turians. So yes, I'm correct. The Normandy was designed to be BETTER than most ships (Of the same classification) in either fleet (Hence the cooperation), including some cruisers.

2. It's a stealth frigate, but it still has really big guns. Guns that are larger than those found on any other frigate, and some cruisers. The Javelins alone probably probably outrank some cruisers, since they emit both EMP's and tear open armor. The Thanix cannon was just the final pull of the trigger. I won't bother mentioning the GARDIAN lasers.

3. Don't say it was "More than capable". If it were, then there wouldn't have been a need to get the hell out of dodge during the Collector Ship level. If it was as easy as you make it out to be, then why didn't Joker just go "lolnope!" and toggle the Javelin button? Have you SEEN the Normandy battling the Ship without the Thanix?

If you want to argue semantics, then it was easier the 2nd go around because Joker knew what to expect facing the Ship, and dodged a lot of the shots.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 02 janvier 2012 - 12:36 .

[Armass81]

Considering that Michael Beattie wont be voicing Mordin, i guess we can all be thankful he will not be a squaddie in ME3. It just wouldnt feel the same.

As for this Squad whining, we got the same when ME2 was coming, people complained about not having Ashley, Liara or Wrex. Now you get most of them back, and what happens, they whine about ME2 squad now... Predictable.

Having seen the leaks, I can say that most ME2 characters have a reason not joining this time, It's a war going on and people have things that they are bind into. For some of them the war also means sacrifice. They might still join as temporary squadmates for a mission or 2, but they wont be in your core party.

Modifié par Armass81, 02 janvier 2012 - 12:57 .

[AgitatedLemon]

Armass81 wrote...

Considering that Michael Beattie wont be voicing Mordin, i guess we can all be thankful he will not be a squaddie in ME3. It just wouldnt feel the same.

As for this Squad whining, we got the same when ME2 was coming, people complained about not having Ashley, Liara or Wrex. Now you get most of them back, and what happens, they whine about ME2 squad now... Predictable.

Having seen the leaks, I can say that most ME2 characters have a reason not joining this time, It's a war going on and people have things that they are bind into. For some of them the war also means sacrifice. They might still join as temporary squadmates for a mission or 2, but they wont be in your core party.

The ME1 cast has 2 games where they're squadmembers. Garrus and Tali in particular have all 3.

A CHOICE to recruit a couple (2 or 3) ME2 characters would be perfect.

[CptData]

AgitatedLemon wrote...



It's 2 visible hits, though I'd say it was 3, not 6-10. 1st one killed Pressly, then another one tore open the CIC hull while Ash and Shepard were talking (Probably the cause of the explosion that occurred), and a 3rd, concentrated beam tore the Normandy in half and made it explode.

Okay, here you go:

1st hit (2:42)
Almost dodged by Joker.
Left engine hit, Pressly killed.

2nd hit (2:48)
Non visible hit, female crewmember killed.
Most likely a hit left side (see exploding consoles in the background).

3rd hit (2:58)
Ship hit, rear & right engine.
Normandy is burning right side.

4th hit (3:00)
Rear & right engine.

5th hit (3:02)
Direct hit at hull.
Random crewman killed, Ashley / Kaidan looking for Shepard.
Several explosions, most likely non-hit by beam.
Important: since it takes full 13 seconds until Ashley / Kaidan finds Shepard (3:15), the Collector cruiser could fire at least two or three additional shots (given the fact if can fire every two or three seconds) dodged by the Normandy. I'll ignore them.

6th hit (3:26)
Explosion behind Ashley. Could be caused by another hit.
Status monitor gets offline.

7th hit (4:14)
Another hit, causing a crewmember's death.

8th hit (4:43)
Probably a secondary explosion, could be caused by a hit.
Followed by playable section - several secondary explosions. I won't count them since they're too weak for a hit by the beam weapon.

9th hit (6:06)
The primary beam weapon charges up and hits (6:14). Although it fires right in the "open chest", the Normandy is still not yet destroyed or cut in half.

10th hit (6:34)
Another hit in the "open chest" of the Normandy. It seems as if this one cuts the cockpit off the Normandy.

11th hit (6:41)
And another hit. Shepard can't reach the escape pod. This one lasts longer, throwing Shepard in space.

12th hit (6:57)
Okay. I shouldn't count this one, but that last hit finishes the Normandy. There is a 13th hit at (7:00) and a 14th shot that didn't hit at (7:02).

Even if I would substract any "non-visible" or "assumed" hits (visible by explosions on board) I still cound more than three hits.

1. The Alliance is all human. The Normandy was co-developed by both the humans and the turians. So yes, I'm correct. The Normandy was designed to be BETTER than most ships in either fleet, including some cruisers.

Depends on what you see as "better". It was a prototype and it was designed as scout frigate. It is, no question, superior to conventional ships of the same class. The Normandy SR1 does not outclass cruisers.

2. It's a stealth frigate, but it still has really big guns. Guns that are larger than those found on any other frigate, and some cruisers. The Javelins alone probably probably outrank some cruisers, since they emit both EMP's and tear open armor. The Thanix cannon was just the final pull of the trigger. I won't bother mentioning the GARDIAN lasers.

Wait. Are we talking about the SR1 or the SR2 right now?

The Mass Effect Wiki says about the SR1:
Like all frigates, the Normandy is equipped with GARDIAN point defense lasers, kinetic barriers, and a spinal mass accelerator cannon. It may also be equipped with advanced Javelin dual disruptor torpedoes.


Not sure if the SR1 got that weaponry ... at least it wasn't stated, or am I wrong?

The SR2 had those weapons. Seems they were added since they do not depend on barrel length (which is one of the reasons why in the ME universe the main gun of every ship is almost as long as said ship). I dunno if those torpedoes outclass cruiser weaponry (since cruisers could have them too plus their more powerful mainguns). I'm pretty sure we saw them in the battle of the Citadel (destruction of one of the Geth cruisers) - and it was fired from a cruiser. That projectile was too slow for being a shell fired from a mass driver.

Just for the record: a torpedo boat carries two or more torpedoes today. Every single torpedo is able to sink a frigate class ship. Heavy weaponry on small ships is not unusual - but limited to few volleys.

3. Don't say it was "More than capable". If it were, then there wouldn't have been a need to get the hell out of dodge during the Collector Ship level. If it was as easy as you make it out to be, then why didn't Joker just go "lolnope!" and toggle the Javelin button? Have you SEEN the Normandy battling the Ship without the Thanix?

If you want to argue semantics, then it was easier the 2nd go around because Joker knew what to expect facing the Ship, and dodged a lot of the shots.

Yes. And I don't get it why Joker has to go so close to fire those Javelin torpedoes. It wasn't necessary since their firepower does not depend on range. It simply doesn't make any sense - he could have fired them at long range while dodging the main beam of the Collector cruiser.


I'm not saying you're wrong - I just wanted to show that your ideas don't always seem to fit to what we know of the ME universe. Both Normandys are powerful ships, but they're no "super ships". Both can be damaged and destroyed, the first one GOT destroyed because Joker couldn't do anything once the engines were damaged. The ship got caught on surprise. The Normandy SR2 survived mostly because of Joker's skills - with or without any upgrades. The upgrades just increased survivability of the Normandy's crew but weren't necessary to go to that base. 
Right here I wish the lack of said upgrades should have caused the destruction of the Normandy ...

Modifié par CptData, 02 janvier 2012 - 01:19 .