93 réponses à ce sujet

[Freebeers]

Doom is the new Shakespeare

[Achromatis]

Good guy, bad guy, good guy try to stop bad guy, good guy goes through various hardships to stop bad guy.



Yep that explains just about ever hero story in ANY form of media in the last, idk... ever?

[Emryc]

Read 'the Hero with a Thousand Faces' or google 'monomyth' and be prepared for the realisation that Star Wars, Lord of the Rings and pretty much every 'epic' story are all the same story in a different package.

[Eliv]

sdrgbgdfgbfgbdfjkgbdfj wrote...
 I mean LotR at least
mixes the Doom formula up slightly by doing this.

Please tell me that you realize the LOTR books were around before DOOM.....

[Godeshus]

Achromatis wrote...

Good guy, bad guy, good guy try to stop bad guy, good guy goes through various hardships to stop bad guy.

Yep that explains just about ever hero story in ANY form of media in the last, idk... ever?

Was going to post nearly the exact same thing, but that summed it up perfectly.

DOOM, NWN, Oblivion, LOTR, The Old Testament: All marvelous works of fiction that have made solid use of a winning formula.

[Niten Ryu]

One could argue - Was the Gray Warden and Blight angle needed in order to have good premise for adventure.



I'd say no. There's been many great books about political rivalry and possibility of the civil war or war in general. Fantasy or even high / generic fantasy don't have to be about big bad boss in the end. Actually it'd probably make setting more interesting if it didn't have a end boss. Like in Ultima IV.

[DragonRageGT]

hmm... quick passing by and running away from a Troll!

[Behindyounow]

The story was alright IMO, but I'dve prefered a human/elf/dwarf/qunari main villain, and not a mutant dragon. Hell, a smart darkspawn like the architect would've been fine.

[Dark83]

Dies_Irae wrote...

How does Lord of the Rings mix up the Doom formula when Lord of the Rings was out first...? Wouldn't Doom have been mixing up the Lord of the Rings formula?

You should read more Discworld. Didn't you know trolls view time backwards?

[pinzig]

sdrgbgdfgbfgbdfjkgbdfj wrote...

You know, you can actually compare the overarching plot of all Bioware games to Doom. Especially Dragon Age. You are a special soldier who must fight your way through hell spawn to kill the leader.

Sounds exactly like Doom to me. In every Bioware game it's always done in the same manner. You become
super powerful and/or gather allies to have a huge show down against
the enem army. Why not do it the way they did in Lord of the Rings
where it's the little hobbits that save the day? I mean LotR at least
mixes the Doom formula up slightly by doing this. What kind of evil
overlord would anticipate their enemies attempting such a crazy and
reckless strategy?

you mean like when in lord of the rings where they *gasp* GATHERED allies (treants, ghosts, riders of rohan, etc.... formed the *gasp* FELLOWSHIP --whats this, more allies gathered.. so that frodo, who has the one ring and is the only one who can handle it ((special soldier time!!) can go defeat the darl lord Sauron.

dude... really, find a better comparison.

[MartinJHolm]

sdrgbgdfgbfgbdfjkgbdfj wrote...

Edited the original post with more detail to try not to look like a troll.

I didn't see it before you edited but it still seems that way.

Behindyounow wrote...

The story was alright IMO, but I'dve prefered a **** main villain, and not a ***.

Thanks for the spoiler, please delete it.

Modifié par MartinJHolm, 23 novembre 2009 - 08:41 .

[Zealuu]

Troll or not, he sort of does have a point. I don't see why a fantasy roleplaying game necessarily has to involve a horde of mindlessly evil beings who want to destroy the world just because that's what they do. While the political intrigue in Ferelden at the time of DA:O seems limited to some variant of "the guy who appears the most innocent is the one who will betray you"-plots, I'm sure it would be possible for Bioware - with some practice - to make a compelling story set in the DA universe, post-Darkspawn. People usually find something to make war over once the greater threat is no longer present, and those dirty, sneaky Orlesians probably want their vassal state back ...

[zazei]

While I wouldn't go as far as compare it to Doom even the most dedicated Bioware fan got to admit they tended to make games that are quit similar lately. All female love interests seems to be Carth clones for just one example and their stories do follow similar patterns.
It's not like it isn't possible to do anything unique. While these are somewhat older games here are some examples. Vampire Bloodlines, Kotor II, Mask of the Betrayer and the Witcher for some examples. Even older Bioware games was different. Baldur's gate 2 as another example.  I can't remember who wrote it but as some developer at Obsidian I think it was pointed out once it's even possible to write a story about two lawful and good nation going to war.

Modifié par zazei, 23 novembre 2009 - 08:47 .

[sdrgbgdfgbfgbdfjkgbdfj]

Zealuu wrote...

Troll or not, he sort of does have a point. I don't see why a fantasy roleplaying game necessarily has to involve a horde of mindlessly evil beings who want to destroy the world just because that's what they do. While the political intrigue in Ferelden at the time of DA:O seems limited to some variant of "the guy who appears the most innocent is the one who will betray you"-plots, I'm sure it would be possible for Bioware - with some practice - to make a compelling story set in the DA universe, post-Darkspawn. People usually find something to make war over once the greater threat is no longer present, and those dirty, sneaky Orlesians probably want their vassal state back ...

Or a prequel based around Andraste attempting to free everyone from slavery. No big bad apocolypse, amnesia, or [insert common trope here] required in order to make such a thing appear dark, gritty, mature, epic or heroic at all.

[dragon_83]

It's not like it isn't possible to do anything unique. While these are somewhat older games here are some examples. Vampire Bloodlines, Kotor II, Mask of the Betrayer and the Witcher for some examples. Even older Bioware games was different. Baldur's gate 2 as another example.  I can't remember who wrote it but as some developer at Obsidian

That's right. And Baldur's Gate 1 was also like this. There, you didn't have fight a huge demonical force, that wanted to destroy the world. Just your brother, who wanted to create huge wars, so in the end, he could become a god. While I'm 99% satisfied with the story of Dragon Age, I think Bioware should have done something more original, like in the BG games.

Modifié par dragon_83, 23 novembre 2009 - 09:35 .

[GhoXen]

sdrgbgdfgbfgbdfjkgbdfj

'Nuff said.

[kraidy1117]

That is how Bioware sets there story arks and there stories are always epic. Who cares if they are similar. ME and DAO while have the hero saving the day theme, have two diffrent stories.



You are trying to stop an old threat from returning



You are fighting the darkspawn and trying to kill the Archdemon

[Appolo90]

The saga of the lone person who must vanquish legions of evil goes back to Gilgamesh and Enkidu. Even in modern 'mythology' you have the kid who faces great adversity to defeat the bad guy. Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader. Frodo Baggins and Sauron. Harry Potter and Vordemort. These stories keep getting 'recycled' yet we eat them up for one very good reason. They appeal to us on a visceral level. So, why do game companies keep producing games with these same types of stories? Because enough people want them, and it's lucrative to do so.

I can't BELIEVE someone brought up the Epic of Gilgamesh before I could. Kudos!

He's right. The underlying events of the hero's story trace back to the stone tablets. The formula can be applied to every epic game. It's a matter of presentation and tweakings now. LotR and Star Wars did some wonderful tweaks. Dragon Age stayed closer to the roots but had out of this world presentation and delivery.

Anyway, the point is that your precious 'Doom story' is the same as every single hero story you can think of with oh-so slight variations. If you want to redefine the hero's story, I'd love to see you try. Nobody's been able to, or wanted to, do it since stone tablets.

[Zethryn]

Appolo90 wrote...

The saga of the lone person who must vanquish legions of evil goes back to Gilgamesh and Enkidu. Even in modern 'mythology' you have the kid who faces great adversity to defeat the bad guy. Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader. Frodo Baggins and Sauron. Harry Potter and Vordemort. These stories keep getting 'recycled' yet we eat them up for one very good reason. They appeal to us on a visceral level. So, why do game companies keep producing games with these same types of stories? Because enough people want them, and it's lucrative to do so.

I can't BELIEVE someone brought up the Epic of Gilgamesh before I could. Kudos!

He's right. The underlying events of the hero's story trace back to the stone tablets. The formula can be applied to every epic game. It's a matter of presentation and tweakings now. LotR and Star Wars did some wonderful tweaks. Dragon Age stayed closer to the roots but had out of this world presentation and delivery.

Anyway, the point is that your precious 'Doom story' is the same as every single hero story you can think of with oh-so slight variations. If you want to redefine the hero's story, I'd love to see you try. Nobody's been able to, or wanted to, do it since stone tablets.

This. For further reading please google Monomyth.

[Hyunsai]

OP got a point. The "Save the world theme" is getting a bit old, and has replaced the "Save the princess" cliché...

That's why I liked the the Witcher, recently...

In BG2 or DA, the side stories are much more interesting than the main plot. At least we have them.




Anyway, those games must appeal to the masses and a simple plot,, so I guess we're for the Doom, and for a long time.

Modifié par Hyunsai, 23 novembre 2009 - 09:53 .

[Mordaedil]

I don't recall DOOM featuring any point at a time where you gather forces to become really powerful to overthrow the final bad guy.

Your character is actually pretty static throughout.

[Selvec_Darkon]

The formula is as old as the ages. The trojan war. Persus Vs Medusa. David vs Goliath. Samson. The formula isn't doom, it's just the oldest story telling formula ever. It's a basis used by almost every single story told. Would you rather the formula of doing puzzles, no fighting, and having idle chatting? If so, then take a gander at Gabriel Nights, you'll love that game.

[Godeshus]

LostSoulsOfWoe wrote...

Appolo90 wrote...

The saga of the lone person who must vanquish legions of evil goes back to Gilgamesh and Enkidu. Even in modern 'mythology' you have the kid who faces great adversity to defeat the bad guy. Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader. Frodo Baggins and Sauron. Harry Potter and Vordemort. These stories keep getting 'recycled' yet we eat them up for one very good reason. They appeal to us on a visceral level. So, why do game companies keep producing games with these same types of stories? Because enough people want them, and it's lucrative to do so.

I can't BELIEVE someone brought up the Epic of Gilgamesh before I could. Kudos!

He's right. The underlying events of the hero's story trace back to the stone tablets. The formula can be applied to every epic game. It's a matter of presentation and tweakings now. LotR and Star Wars did some wonderful tweaks. Dragon Age stayed closer to the roots but had out of this world presentation and delivery.

Anyway, the point is that your precious 'Doom story' is the same as every single hero story you can think of with oh-so slight variations. If you want to redefine the hero's story, I'd love to see you try. Nobody's been able to, or wanted to, do it since stone tablets.

This. For further reading please google Monomyth.

Before I google Monomyth, because I will and I AM always looking for something original (give credit where credit is due, I always say), I have to say that I, nor almost anyone here it seems has heard of it; and the fact you have to post 'Google Monomyth' BECAUSE no one's heard of it kind of gives a clear indication as to what people really want. They want the story of Gilgamesh and Enkidu, and it's hundreds of thousands of children; all unique in their own way, but all descended from the same genes.

[nisallik]

Off the top of my head, I can't really recall a game that had a plot that didn't have an enemy for you to beat at the end that had some type of real significance.