529 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

AlexXIV wrote...

So you'd say if you used the same tech and software for million years you still couldn't prevent people from hacking it?

It's unlikely, but not impossible. Hacking is always possible by brute force, if nothing else, and security keys can be deciphered and used to falsify authentication. When that's compromised (like with the Reaper IFF, which was successfully cracked and replicated), entire security systems are broken.

Electronic security isn't about being unassailable, it's being tough enough to warrant the risk.

Especially if you control the tech progress of these people like the Reapers do? No I am not a tech expert (and neither your son btw.) but that shouldn't keep you from explaining me why.

The Reapers don't control the tech progress. It's a common fan claim, but it's a misinterpretation.

The Reapers leave the relays to give literal paths for civilization, and e-zero as the mainstay for development. But each civilization is free to approach technology as they wish. The Reapers don't dictate how technology turns out in each iteration, nor do they control computer development.

Also I know the last large asteroid of the size you mention hit earth many millions of years ago, so I wouldn't think this probability is high. Storing data for 50.000 years though is more likely considering the available tech in ME.

It's highly exceptional and uncommon. Most Prothean technology is broken by age and disrepair: even the Illos holograms are on their last legs in ME1, the first one is broken, and Vigil collapses shortly after you leave, before Council agents can return.

This is not secure data. This is broken, richety, nearly failed systems.

Especially if it was the Protheans plan to give this data to the next species facing the Reapers. That's how smart Protheans are. But probably you are in the same boat with certain other people and just say they got lucky. So ... whatever. Probalby we should be singing and dancing all day about how lucky we were which had nothing to do with someone being smarter than someone else.

The organics in the galaxy are insanely lucky through no intelligence of their own. Luck has an incredibly great deal with victory against the Reapers. If any of a large number of events had gone differently for any reason, the galaxy would be lost to the Reapers. This starts with the Prothean intervention that we were unaware of, continues to the accidental discovery of the indoctrinated Rachni before they could breed large enough to win the Rachni Wars, all the 'just in time' moments of ME1 that allowed the pursuit of Saren, the fact that Shepard died in such a way that allowed a reclusive billionair to ressurect them, and so much more.

Anyone who thinks that victory against the Reapers is entirely on our own merits is fooling themselves.

So to shorten this you could just explain me why billions or even only millions of years were not enough time for the Reapers to prevent 'lesser' races to hack their citadel and delay them long enough to make their 'Sovereign bullrushes Citadel' plan fail. And no, I don't accept 'pure luck' as an answer. You will have to do better.

Because hardware is always analyzable, and the nature of the plan rather requires the Reapers leave the Citadel and Mass Relays were they can be found.

[Dean_the_Young]

AlexXIV wrote...

I dispute that it was just luck. You could reduce everything to luck if you wanted.

No, you can't.

Edit: actually, you're right. You could. You'd be wrong, but you could.

But actually they were people with a plan and it worked. A bit of luck is always a good thing. But a good plan isn't dependend on luck in any rate.

Then what occured wasn't a good plan, because it was dependent on luck at a number of times.

The first luck is that when the Reapers arrived and captured the Citadel from the Protheans, among all the data captured by the Reapers about the Prothean empire the existence of Ilos was not.


The Prothean plan was a desperation gambit that was mere seconds from failing on a number of occassions.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 27 décembre 2011 - 10:29 .

[mauro2222]

Medhia Nox wrote...

It's fascinating how "real" some of you treat this. I suppose talking about works of fiction as if they were real could be fun - but I doubt anyone who tried to write a story that way would ever achieve anything resembling a successful work.

Shepard is put into the path of Sovereign by fate. Fate, in this case, are the developers of the game. Third person Creators who have total control over all events - the only possible analogue would be a "God" in our own universe - as of yet, unproven.

Shepard's uselessness if X event had not happened - is pointless to discuss. All events are preordained in the ME universe (as they are in all works of art).

Roleplaying Shepard as unsure of his "fate" would be fine - "in his shoes" he would be unaware of any such Creators - but discussing on these boards the concept of an unscripted ME universe is - well, futile (along with being ludicrous).

Shepard is destined to defeat the Reapers - the only thing that might be different is how that victory is achieved.

=========

To answer the OP - no, to me, the ends never justify the means. It is the means which define the end result.

QFT! :happy:

[Unpleasant Implications]

That depends on the ends and the means. If the ends get less people killed, they normally ae justified, but it can vary on the situation.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

To be fair, Sovereign was not on plan B.
Signal Citadel...........Fail
Use the rachni..........Fail
Use the scientist......Fail. (Saren and Anderson mission)
Use Saren and geth...
And there may be other failures we know nothing about.
Sovereign was working down the alphabet and missing the mark repeatedly.

and from this we can make another conclusion... for lolz

The founder of Cerberus is..... Sovereign.

Perhaps we have reached a point in Reaper 'evolution' where they're just getting old and starting to break down and make mistakes. Organic lifeforms will eventually adapt.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 28 décembre 2011 - 03:17 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Medhia Nox wrote...

It's fascinating how "real" some of you treat this. I suppose talking about works of fiction as if they were real could be fun - but I doubt anyone who tried to write a story that way would ever achieve anything resembling a successful work.

Oh? And why would that be?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Disengaging in space is NOT easy. Also, that means exposing your rear to the Citadel fleet.
Forward fixed guns, rmember?

Not stuck on a two dimensional grid, remember? Just fly over the guns.

I also never said that it's easy, I said that it's possible.

They could have went for a suicide run if Sovereign told them to. He was their god, after all.

Ya, won't work. Those "guns" can move in 3D too, and unless your forward is pointing at the enemy ( and if you want to by-pass them, it won't), you cna't hit htem, they can hit you.
Even if the Geth wanted to move to help Sovereign, that really wasn't feasable - at least in any meaningfull time frame. That pesky Delta-V again.

Wait. So it takes more time for the geth to attack the Destiny Ascension and fly into the Citadel than it takes the Arcturus fleet to arrive through the mass relay, fly right into the Citadel while ignoring the geth and destroy Sovereign? What?

Well yes. From the mass relay to the citadel - a straight line.
No need to evade, doge or anything if you're not fighting.

The Geth ARE fighting. They are engaged and thus, cannot simply head to the Citadel willy-nilly.

That's about as close as the geth fleet was to the Citadel. Are you honestly trying to make me believe that not a single one of those ships could have disengaged from the battle to assist Sovereign?

1. Cutscens an scale. Scale has to be ignored for dramatic tension. It's practilcy always done. That there isn't even knife-figght range..it's hull-kissing.

2.  Where's the reast of the citadel fleet and hte Geth ships

3. The Citadel arm in the background. The Geth certanly can't go or shoot trough it.

4. The part about exposing their rear (with the engines) to enemy fire if they do that.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 28 décembre 2011 - 08:41 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

AlexXIV wrote...
I dispute that it was just luck. You could reduce everything to luck if you wanted. But actually they were people with a plan and it worked. A bit of luck is always a good thing. But a good plan isn't dependend on luck in any rate.

So the data about Illos accidenlty bein destroyed suring hte attakco nthe Citadel is not luck?
The Reapers going away jsut in time for the few researchers to survive was not luck?
Sheppard runing into the beacon is not luck?
etc, etc, etc...

Yes son, luck. Most heros survive by pure luck. Shep is no exception.

[HappyHappyJoyJoy]

vvDRUCILLAvv wrote...

So what do you think, do the ends truly justify the means? Would you be willing to do the unthinkable if the outcome was favorable and if so why? Lets discuss this over tea and strumpets shall we.

Have there been any strumpets in this thread?

[AlexXIV]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...
I dispute that it was just luck. You could reduce everything to luck if you wanted. But actually they were people with a plan and it worked. A bit of luck is always a good thing. But a good plan isn't dependend on luck in any rate.

So the data about Illos accidenlty bein destroyed suring hte attakco nthe Citadel is not luck?
The Reapers going away jsut in time for the few researchers to survive was not luck?
Sheppard runing into the beacon is not luck?
etc, etc, etc...

Yes son, luck. Most heros survive by pure luck. Shep is no exception.

Then I don't know why you are so worried about decisions like the CB. I mean with this kind of luck we cannot lose. It is almost like Divine Intervention™.

[Lotion Soronarr]

AlexXIV wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
So the data about Illos accidenlty bein destroyed suring hte attakco nthe Citadel is not luck?
The Reapers going away jsut in time for the few researchers to survive was not luck?
Sheppard runing into the beacon is not luck?
etc, etc, etc...

Yes son, luck. Most heros survive by pure luck. Shep is no exception.

Then I don't know why you are so worried about decisions like the CB. I mean with this kind of luck we cannot lose. It is almost like Divine Intervention™.

Morons rely on the idea ther luck will hold.
Smart people create their own luck.

That is why I'm "worried"

[Lotion Soronarr]

HappyHappyJoyJoy wrote...

vvDRUCILLAvv wrote...

So what do you think, do the ends truly justify the means? Would you be willing to do the unthinkable if the outcome was favorable and if so why? Lets discuss this over tea and strumpets shall we.

Have there been any strumpets in this thread?

strumpet [ˈstrʌmpɪt]n Archaic a prostitute or promiscuous woman[of unknown origin]




Noun1.strumpet - a woman adulterer                    adulteress, fornicatress, hussy, loose woman, ****, trollop, jadeadulterer, fornicator - someone who commits adultery or fornication


I'd say no, there hasn't been any. Bring forth the pictures!

But here's some tea to tide oyu over:

[Praetor Knight]

cake or death...



uh, huh?!

[AlexXIV]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
So the data about Illos accidenlty bein destroyed suring hte attakco nthe Citadel is not luck?
The Reapers going away jsut in time for the few researchers to survive was not luck?
Sheppard runing into the beacon is not luck?
etc, etc, etc...

Yes son, luck. Most heros survive by pure luck. Shep is no exception.

Then I don't know why you are so worried about decisions like the CB. I mean with this kind of luck we cannot lose. It is almost like Divine Intervention™.

Morons rely on the idea ther luck will hold.
Smart people create their own luck.

That is why I'm "worried"

You don't see the big picture.

Replace luck with miracle. Because if you have that much luck that is basically impossible, then people tend to view it as a miracle. And who works miracles? Right, the Lord our god. So he didn't mind aliens being wiped out because he is a human god. Then the Reapers would threaten to wipe out his beloved humans and he could not let it happen. So he first 'helped' the Protheans and then He made Shepard his shepherd for His People. And ever since god helped Shepard out on the road. Which also explains why the Paragon way works so well. God loves Paragons. See how all things suddenly make sense?

Seriously, if you think it is luck which brought us to far, then it will be luck that will let us succeed in the end. But I guess it is ok because you make up your own reality anyway as you go. I mean that's basically how you build your own ME story in your head. You tell yourself everything Cerberus does is due to skill because they get results and it has nothing to do with luck, and everyone else is just being lucky. The more I see from this discussions the less I can take them seriously really people. It is all about entitlement and going any length to defend it.

And in the end what? In the end you will just have to accept what Bioware serves you, or doesn't. And it will be just the same that you got so far.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 28 décembre 2011 - 08:57 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

AlexXIV wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


Morons rely on the idea ther luck will hold.
Smart people create their own luck.

That is why I'm "worried"

You don't see the big picture.

Replace luck with miracle. Because if you have that much luck that is basically impossible, then people tend to view it as a miracle. And who works miracles? Right, the Lord our god. So he didn't mind aliens being wiped out because he is a human god. Then the Reapers would threaten to wipe out his beloved humans and he could not let it happen. So he first 'helped' the Protheans and then He made Shepard his shepherd for His People. And ever since god helped Shepard out on the road. Which also explains why the Paragon way works so well. God loves Paragons. See how all things suddenly make sense?

Seriously, if you think it is luck which brought us to far, then it will be luck that will let us succeed in the end. But I guess it is ok because you make up your own reality anyway as you go. I mean that's basically how you build your own ME story in your head. You tell yourself everything Cerberus does is due to skill because they get results and it has nothing to do with luck, and everyone else is just being lucky. The more I see from this discussions the less I can take them seriously really people. It is all about entitlement and going any length to defend it.

And in the end what? In the end you will just have to accept what Bioware serves you, or doesn't. And it will be just the same that you got so far.

Wut?

What is this...this paragraph is broken in so many ways I don't even know where to begin. Or what your'e trying to say exactly.

Oh Irony. Thy name is AlexXIV.

Someone take over temporarily for me. I'm getting a brain anurysm....

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 28 décembre 2011 - 09:39 .

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

1. Cutscens an scale. Scale has to be ignored for dramatic tension. It's practilcy always done. That there isn't even knife-figght range..it's hull-kissing.

2.  Where's the reast of the citadel fleet and hte Geth ships

3. The Citadel arm in the background. The Geth certanly can't go or shoot trough it.

4. The part about exposing their rear (with the engines) to enemy fire if they do that.

You know, the same can be said about the geth being too far away to contribute to the fight with Sovereign. It's just a silly camera angle. Not to mention that there's nothing that proves they were too far away as far as the game tells it.

[AlexXIV]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


Morons rely on the idea ther luck will hold.
Smart people create their own luck.

That is why I'm "worried"

You don't see the big picture.

Replace luck with miracle. Because if you have that much luck that is basically impossible, then people tend to view it as a miracle. And who works miracles? Right, the Lord our god. So he didn't mind aliens being wiped out because he is a human god. Then the Reapers would threaten to wipe out his beloved humans and he could not let it happen. So he first 'helped' the Protheans and then He made Shepard his shepherd for His People. And ever since god helped Shepard out on the road. Which also explains why the Paragon way works so well. God loves Paragons. See how all things suddenly make sense?

Seriously, if you think it is luck which brought us to far, then it will be luck that will let us succeed in the end. But I guess it is ok because you make up your own reality anyway as you go. I mean that's basically how you build your own ME story in your head. You tell yourself everything Cerberus does is due to skill because they get results and it has nothing to do with luck, and everyone else is just being lucky. The more I see from this discussions the less I can take them seriously really people. It is all about entitlement and going any length to defend it.

And in the end what? In the end you will just have to accept what Bioware serves you, or doesn't. And it will be just the same that you got so far.

Wut?

What is this...this paragraph is broken in so many ways I don't even know where to begin. Or what your'e trying to say exactly.

Oh Irony. Thy name is AlexXIV.

Someone take over temporarily for me. I'm getting a brain anurysm....

How many times have you said that now? You could at least get more orignial than repeating yourself again and again. Seriously, of all people on the BSN there is only one making more a fool of himself then anyone else. And that's you. Of course you don't see that. But ... what can I say, someone who doesn't know the difference between game and reality sees alot of things different I guess.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

1. Cutscens an scale. Scale has to be ignored for dramatic tension. It's practilcy always done. That there isn't even knife-figght range..it's hull-kissing.

2.  Where's the reast of the citadel fleet and the Geth ships

3. The Citadel arm in the background. The Geth certanly can't go or shoot trough it.

4. The part about exposing their rear (with the engines) to enemy fire if they do that.

You know, the same can be said about the geth being too far away to contribute to the fight with Sovereign. It's just a silly camera angle. Not to mention that there's nothing that proves they were too far away as far as the game tells it.

Fluff and codex establish the combat distances and how space combat works rather nicely. However, you cannot have such combat in a cutscene as it isn't.."cinematic".
Never having more than 1 object on screen would be boring.

Also, as I said beofore - ships engaged cannot just break out of comabt at will.

[didymos1120]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Also, as I said beofore - ships engaged cannot just break out of comabt at will.

If they've got FTL capability, that's exactly what they can do.

[Lotion Soronarr]

AlexXIV wrote...

How many times have you said that now? You could at least get more orignial than repeating yourself again and again. Seriously, of all people on the BSN there is only one making more a fool of himself then anyone else. And that's you. Of course you don't see that. But ... what can I say, someone who doesn't know the difference between game and reality sees alot of things different I guess.

So because I argue the validity of decision from a in-universe perspective (which is really the only sensible perspective to argue such big character choices) you deduce I cannot destinguish between game and reality?
:lol::lol::lol:


You know, when you turn to the "it's just a game", "it will be as the devs decide" and similar statements, it only shows how weak your position actually is.
You have to resort to going outside of the game/universe/fluff to try to (unsucesfully) justify your theories.

Mayhaps one day you'll learn the destinction between a good and bad argument. I'm not keeping my hopes up tough.