25 réponses à ce sujet

[ShadowSplicer]

So I'm going through my Insanity run, no part has really given me more than one or two deaths of trouble, but then on the introductory fight in Collector Ship, Harbinger just gangrapes me from about an inch away with that god damn biotic spam. Before the platform has even fully docked, he shoots me AS I walk into cover (following the cinematic that just played) and sends me back. Then the Scion just blasts me again and by that time the second Harbinger shot hits me. I've reloaded the save about ten times now, replayed the entire level from the beginning, and it still keeps happening. I think I only escaped his first shot like once, only to die normally later on in the fight. I'm a Sentinel with Garrus and Miranda, but they do me little good as they walk straight out of cover whenever the Scion knocks them out of it and then get one shot blasted by Harbinger. Harbinger just keeps trolling on over right up in my face, melees me, and then just blasts me on the ground.

Any suggestions for this fight? Squad placement? I've found a spot on the platform I have where at least one squadmate has about at least ten seconds to live before Harbinger blasts them endlessly with biotic spam. I might just stop the insanity run here, its just kind of ridiculous to have a HarbingerLOL, ScionLOL, and a second wave of HarbingerLOL, all while being pinned to a tiny little platform with no place to run.

[ShadowSplicer]

Just beat those three waves only to find that there's another fight right after it (with no checkpoint in between of course) in which they feel it necessary to have yet ANOTHER HarbingerLOL (the fourth one in one fight, this time with an Assassin with it) as well as throw in another ScionLOL for ****s and giggles.

[ryoldschool]

 Since you are a sentinel, I suggest you take somebody that can help you with the armor - I took Mordin and Miranda on this video, but Miranda and Thane will also work fine.  You notice that I mainly just use the squad reset feature of AA to combo Harby with Incinerate( Mordin ) and Warp ( Miranda ) and don't use my own powers at all except to reset the AA.


DCS Level 15 Sentinel
 
Also, Harby is going to show up at least twice.  What you would like to do is kill the other collectors he is with first so that he will not possess another one after you kill Harby

Also, I was looking at comments on my video, and I have three hard shield upgrades ( did the geth weather N7 mission ) before the DCS - I think that also helps a lot.  Maybe you don't have that yet?

btw, I think that this fight is the hardest part of the game, so when you complete this mission you can handle anything. 

Modifié par ryoldschool, 24 décembre 2011 - 07:20 .

[Yezdigerd]

The collector waves seems to continue as long a a scion is up.
Cheesiest way is stasis abuse on scions and using Kasumi's flashbang on Harby which renders him harmless,
but in general squaddies who can deal with armor makes it a great deal easier. My favorite combo for the platform is Thane Legion(with Widow), their sniper rifles eat the scions(especially with the ap upgrade), even if you don't do anything it's rare to get more then 2 waves. Drones are very nice to keep harby occupied as well.

Modifié par Yezdigerd, 25 décembre 2011 - 01:07 .

[capn233]

Legion on the DCC... that's an interesting playthrough.

I don't consider the Flashbang cheese,even if it is a lot better than many other powers... The main thing is that if you learn how to avoid Harbinger's blackhole attack, or whatever it is supposed to be, by dodging in cover, then any fight with him is made a lot easier.

I agree with the Sentinel advice above. Use the tech armor to your advantage by staying within explosion stun range of them and resetting it to take your squad's powers off cooldown. I can't quite remember specifically what I did as a Sentinel, but then again I approached this fight more or less the same each playthrough except as a Vanguard. If you want to be daring, Sentinel is the second best class for mixing it up close though. That said, I do not like going onto the first platform during the first wave. It is way too easy for the Scion to nail you there.

I also agree with getting three Damage Protection upgrades before you trigger that mission. Hard Shields makes the game a bit easier.

It is a tricky segment of the game, partly because of Harbinger and partly because of the shockwave spam from the Scions. You will need to park your squad in a decent place to keep them from getting killed by them. Also, as above, the faster you can deal with the Scions the easier it is to take out the regular collectors. Use warp or heavy pistol and gun them down. Or even use a heavy weapon if you have to.

ryoldschool's approach in his vid is good so you could try and adjust your strategy to be more in line with what he did there.

edit:

Oh and Garrus and Miranda are fine for this mission.  In my opinion Garrus should almost always have the Sniper Rifle equipped.  It modifies his AI slightly with regard to how agressive he is.  But if you park the squad in the right place and do not move them then they will have higher odds of survival on this mission.  Only downside is that you will be the one drawing fire, but as a Sentinel you should be the tank.

Modifié par capn233, 25 décembre 2011 - 02:00 .

[mcsupersport]

Garrus may be good on this mission but Thane is better. He has the same sniper rifle as well as throw and warp, which means he can shatter frozen enemies, throw them off platforms and warp armor on a 9 second base cooldown if using unstable. My Standard team is now Miranda and Thane with the only substitute being Grunt if I want a bullet sponge or playing Vanguard.

[capn233]

Sure Thane might be better. I was just saying that it is certainly possible to beat the mission with the squad he already took. If he didn't mind restarting then Thane might work out better. It will just take a little longer to run through the beginning, but you don't fight anyone until the platform anyway so it won't be too bad I suppose.

[HappyHappyJoyJoy]

Thane is definitely better. Warp removes barrier, Throw gets rid of unprotected Collectors. If you have a squadmate with Pull (like Samara), you can set up warp explosions.

Landing to the platform battle is, what, a few minutes of walking? Best to restart.

[Darkstar Aurora]

I typically ignore the Scions until the very end. Instead, I focus on clearing all the platforms of collectors with rapid, consecutive Warp detonations (Sentinel, Jack, Samara/Morinth) or various Singularity + Newton-force combinations (Adept, Jack, Thane).

What makes Harbinger truly deadly is the number of allies that give him suppressing fire, finish you off once he staggers you with his ‘singularity’, or that he can then possess once his current form is destroyed. By himself he is not "that difficult" to deal with. The Scions are somewhat similar in this regard. Their ranged attack (it’s named “rolling wave”, not shockwave, and obviously has different effect) destroys your shields, deals roughly half as much damage to health, and prevents regeneration. However they can be avoided with careful cover, and you can draw these attacks towards your cover position by keeping ahead of your squad or placing them good positions when needed (and by pausing and ordering them back to cover when they are knocked out of it). You can expect to need to use Unity during the battle, and there is plenty of Medi-gel in the mission to replenish it. You just need to make sure that you are using it at an opportune time.

I normally play as an Adept, so it has been a while since I actually have had to deal with Harbinger’s attacks (Heavy Singularity neutralizes his biotics, freeing you to take out his minions). However for this discussion I did reload out my Sentinel save game, and while it took a practice run to get the hang of it, I was able to clear the entire level with only one use of medi-gel, no heavy ammunition, and only 1 reload. My class/squad builds were as follows.

SENTINEL (Throw Field, Unstable Warp, Assault Armor, Guardian, Area Energy Drain)
-Fairly self-explanatory skillset: Assault Armor and Guardian give the most shielding with minimal cooldown. Unstable Warp combined with two fast-cooldown Pull effects from Jack and Samara/Morinth enable quick and highly efficient elimination of armor/barrier enemies, whereas Guardian and Area Energy Drain make you a juggernaut against synthetics or shielded enemies. Throw Field, Assault Armor, and Jack/Samara/Morinth’s other biotics ensure enemies whose resistances are down are quickly incapacitated, controlled, or removed from the battlefield.

For the squad, I typically prefer:

JACK: (Shockwave 3, Pull 2, Primal Adept, Squad Warp Ammo)
-with concentrated team-fire on a single target (Harbinger, Praetorian, Scion—none of whom ever take cover) the bonus damage from Squad Warp Ammo will generate a higher DPS than the DPS value of Warp when used by Miranda or Thane (i.e. damage divided by their cooldown time). More importantly, Jack accomplishes this without placing her powers into cooldown, which means she is free to endlessly set up Warp detonations for you with her fast-recharging Pull. So instead of merely hitting Harbinger alone with your Warp, you are instead everything on the platform at once—eliminating Collectors for him to possess while simultaneously generating more total damage against him overall. Meanwhile her Shockwave blows through elevated cover, shatters guardian hive shields, and at tier 3 carries enough newton force to send multiple unprotected enemies falling to their deaths in this encounter.

SAMARA (Throw 2, Pull 3, Sapiens Justicar, Area Reave*) *retrain to Heavy at level 30
or MORINTH: (Throw 2, Pull 3, Erdua Yakshi, Enhanced Dominate)
-A squad member with assault rifle training and a fast-recharge Pull is really all you need from her; loyalty powers and Throw are simply icing on the cake. Technically you could evolve her Pull Field instead, leaving loyalty powers at tier 3. This is because Jack’s Squad Warp Ammo enables Samara/Morinth to fully strip a Collector Drone’s barrier (500 at 30th level) with three consecutive bursts from an upgraded M-15 Vindicator (nine rounds total). That is the typical number of rounds she will fire each time she emerges from a defended cover position, and even with all upgrades she will not hit the 500 damage mark in one “firing sequence” from cover without a squad ammo boost.
While it is difficult to get her loyalty mission before the Collector Ship, loyalty itself does not matter when you are playing as a class with Warp. All she needs to do is shoot and Pull and not kill the target before your Warp hits them. However, if you do obtain her loyalty mission before the Collector Ship (i.e. recruiting her first and maintaining fewer than 8 total squad members, or exploiting the timeline with Normandy Crash Site DLC) then it makes her exponentially more effective. (Area) Reave enables Samara to deal with (multiple) enemy barriers in a shorter time frame, and the short-term regeneration (and longer 20-30 second boost her to maximum health) when used against undefended organics can enable her to defend positions when facing overwhelming numbers. Meanwhile, if you sided with Morinth then it makes every collector (and mercenary) mission a much easier victory. Just focus fire on the nearest Collector and hit them with (Enhanced) Dominate, then suddenly Harbinger finds himself attacking (or just being attacked by) by the same allies that he needs to be able to respawn. However what really makes Morinth shine is enemies with Heavy Weapons (Collector Assassins in this case). Enhanced Dominate will always outlast its cooldown, even with the short ‘confusion delay’, and more importantly every organic enemy faction has heavy weapon units, and those enemies have 'unlimited' heavy ammunition.

In terms of squad commands/placement, I do not really do much beyond the following;
-I map their Pull abilities to the d-pad and occasionally select Shockwave/Throw/Reave/Dominate from the radial menu.
-I place Samara/Morinth behind the console with EDI.
-I initially take cover behind the hexagonal edging directly in front of Samara/EDI.
-I place Jack in cover at the edging to my right so we flank the approaching path from the first platform.
-Any time they are taking health damage and exposded (knocked out of cover) I pause the game and order them back to cover.
-After the first platform is cleared I typically advance to a new position that still gives cover from the Scion. If needed I use the squad command to “follow”, or I have them focus fire on the first Scion (switching Jack to her Heavy Pistol at that point).

Basically the key to having your squad members survive is be more aggressive, take cover from the Scion, and quickly clear the Collector platforms with Warp detonations or Newton-force effects.

Modifié par Darkstar Aurora, 25 décembre 2011 - 10:41 .

[capn233]

You don't even have to be aggressive if you put the squad in certain spots. You can practically do the entire battle from the first platform if you wish. You can also keep the squad on the first platform, which is probably the easiest way to keep them alive. They don't need LOS to use their powers. Shepard just needs LOS to order them to use their powers.

Not that I am implying that being aggressive wouldn't work... certainly will.

At least we gave the OP 10 ways to do this mission... if he tries them all he will probably find something he personally likes.

[Sarah_SR2]

I haven't played the game on insanity yet but have tackled this fight on hardcore four times. I died 4 times in the first encounter but only once during the other three yet I still don't know if I'm qualified to comment really due to the difficulty level. But for me, I found the key was being able to duck and dodge Harby's black ball warp attacks and to take out the scion on your initial right as fast as possible. Now the soldier or the infiltrator can do this easily since they have time dilation abilities and the viper sniper rifle (which can destroy a scion very quickly) but the other classes can have a much harder time. Flashbang seems to halt Harby for a few valuable seconds whilst you and your other squad members unload everything into him as he starts to rush your position. If I recall, I took Kasumi and Miranda along and their powers (Miranda boosts squad health and weapon damage, and especially so when her passive is maxed) proved very useful in my current playthrough, although as I said, I'm playing at hardcore instead of insanity so none of what I've experienced may be valid here?

Modifié par Sarah_SR2, 26 décembre 2011 - 02:36 .

[ShadowSplicer]

O.o

Wow, so many awesome answers, I'll be trying again later today and hopefully your advice will help to biotic smack Harbinger in the face.

[Sarah_SR2]

Don't be afraid to pause the game now and again to scan the battlefield and evaluate the position. I try not to pause too much but it can help you learn during some of the tougher fights for next time you play it. I never pause to aim weapons but do sometimes take a moment so weigh things up such as squad placements, weapon changes or cover selection for Shepard.

Go kick those collectors' butts on the DCS )

[Yezdigerd]

capn233 wrote...

Legion on the DCC... that's an interesting playthrough.

A right, I always Gibb him in after freedoms progress, I tend to forget:lol:.  If not him, Samara is awesome with reave, Miranda is never wrong, Mordin does well here also. his incineration blast hits both shields and barriers surprisingly hard I discovered when I started using it actively and the area is huge.

I don't consider the Flashbang cheese,even if it is a lot better than many other powers... The main thing is that if you learn how to avoid Harbinger's blackhole attack, or whatever it is supposed to be, by dodging in cover, then any fight with him is made a lot easier.

Kasumi's flashbang renders Harbinger permanently harmless, trivalizing any encounter he is in. If that is not cheese what is?

[capn233]

He isn't permanently harmless... just during the effects of flashbang. Singularity does the same thing more or less but it also will give him damage over time.

Reload trick on the Claymore almost feels more cheesy even if it is a bit harder to do.

[goofyomnivore]

Well Flashbang works for an extended period doesn't it? Like 20 seconds on Harbinger? I honestly don't know other than watching videos. I hardly use Kasumi because I hate her LM and her Overload sucks. So I don't get to use FB that much. Although it is sweet like a 9meter AOE stagger, hell yes.

I think Stasis is the cheesiest power. I shamefully use it too. Reload trick isn't too bad it puts the Claymore on par with the other shotguns dps wise. It is all the same really, no matter which Shotgun you use you're weaving in melee attacks almost all the time. The Claymore's melee is just used for pure dps via the gun rather than a mix of dps/stagger from Shepard's elbows.

Modifié par strive, 26 décembre 2011 - 03:19 .

[Sarah_SR2]

Flashbang is great because it stops an enemy in its tracks for a fair period yet unlike stasis, you can still inflict damage on them via weapons and powers whilst they're blinded. The only problem can be when you flashbang an enemy up close and the flash blinds you as well. I do like Kasumi a lot as she also has overload and that combined with slam can totally destroy shields and strip off tons of health too (if the enemy only had shields and no armor/barrier). If you have crippling slam then the enemy is left on the ground completely incapacitated for 8 seconds so you can finish them off at your leisure )

[capn233]

Stasis though has the little issue of like a 100% damage multiplier right after it wears off. Not designed to work like that of course.

[Sarah_SR2]

Well, I get 140% damage up with heightened adreneline rush and a 15% damage boost from Miranda's maxed out class passive ) Stasis is not a power I've used personally although I'll admit it looks very clever in the right hands. As you can probably tell I'm a big fan of slam. It insta-kills unarmored husks, lifts enemies permanently off the map during certain missions (shadow broker ship exterior, arrival final fight sequence, moving collector platforms) and does additional damage during low grav environments such as heretic station. It also cripples an enemy for 8 seconds (crippling slam) and can also be used in combo with overload to destroy shielded opponents. It staggers protected enemies for a second or so giving you time to get in with a melee attack or shotgun blast and I'm sure it can also take out rocket drones at close range too. The best the thing about it though is the 3 second cool down which means it doesn't interfere too much with other powers. The soldier is great for me with slam because it provides a little bit of much needed crowd control rather than just shooting things.

[capn233]

Slam is a great power, effective at even level one. It was a life-saver early game as a Vanguard for me.

With Stasis I just meant that there is a huge damage boost right after it wears off which is unintended by the devs... I don't know what the actual numbers are but it is higher than the bonus you get from an enemy just lying on the ground.

[Sarah_SR2]

Oh I'm certainly not knocking stasis. I've seen a number of videos where it's been used and it looks very effective with the right style of play. It's just that I don't think it would suit my playstyle as I tend to target enemies with aggression and the intent of killing them right there and then. I don't really want an enemy left in suspended animation that could wake up and "stab me in the back" whilst I'm preoccupied fighting something else! An opponent flattened by slam can be killed whilst it's still immobile and that suits me very nicely ) But as always, bonus powers and character builds are personal choice and it's horses for courses and whatever suits you best )

[capn233]

I know what you mean. I don't really use stasis except as a power for Liara on LOTSB... there I am not afraid to use it on Vasir or the rocket drones (which it instakills).

[Yezdigerd]

capn233 wrote...

He isn't permanently harmless... just during the effects of flashbang. Singularity does the same thing more or less but it also will give him damage over time.

Yes he is. Kasumi's flashbang permanently turns of his attacks. He will just folllow you around like a puppy until your squad mates kill him after 5 minutes or so. Try it.

[SpockLives]

I don't think that's entirely true. Harbinger just gets neutralized much longer than the power's listed duration. I know he does start attacking again eventually (after 20-30 seconds) because I let "harmless" Harbinger flank me so I could kill his minions. Imagine my surprise when he black-balled me from behind. It's hard to find out how long the flashbang lasts on him, though, because my squadmates usually kill him in less than 30 seconds.

[Yezdigerd]

I never ever seen, Harbringer attack again after Kasumi thrown her goo at him, and waited times up to 5 minutes. Notice that it's Kasumi's flashbang, I dont think it works with Shepard's bonus power.

edit: hm, actually it might be that Kasumi reapplies the flashbang, he actually shot me now after a couple of minutes on passive.
Anyway for all practical purposes, Kasumi turns him, and any encounter he is part of into a joke.

Modifié par Yezdigerd, 27 décembre 2011 - 08:14 .