Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 26 décembre 2011 - 04:08 .
Guest_Calinstel_*
I do agree with you. ME2 lacked that 'connection' that progressed the overarching plot. Even one mission where the first link/connection was found would have drawn the story back and connected all three stories.Dean_the_Young wrote...
It is not deus ex machina, since it's existence is established fairly early in ME3's story (the beginning of the Salarian homeworld mission in the leaked demo), and the plot device is improved upon across much of the story.
Without speaking for others, I don't like it because I feel it should have been introduced and established in ME2, if not vaguely chekov'd as far back as ME1. If ME2 had it as a major plot arc, ME2 would have been far more integrated into the trilogy.
Dean_the_Young wrote...
It is not deus ex machina, since it's existence is established fairly early in ME3's story (the beginning of the Salarian homeworld mission in the leaked demo), and the plot device is improved upon across much of the story.
Without speaking for others, I don't like it because I feel it should have been introduced and established in ME2, if not vaguely chekov'd as far back as ME1. If ME2 had it as a major plot arc, ME2 would have been far more integrated into the trilogy.
Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 26 décembre 2011 - 04:15 .
Dean_the_Young wrote...
It is not deus ex machina, since it's existence is established fairly early in ME3's story (the beginning of the Salarian homeworld mission in the leaked demo), and the plot device is improved upon across much of the story.
Without speaking for others, I don't like it because I feel it should have been introduced and established in ME2, if not vaguely chekov'd as far back as ME1. If ME2 had it as a major plot arc, ME2 would have been far more integrated into the trilogy.
Dean_the_Young wrote...
It is not deus ex machina, since it's existence is established fairly early in ME3's story (the beginning of the Salarian homeworld mission in the leaked demo), and the plot device is improved upon across much of the story.
Without speaking for others, I don't like it because I feel it should have been introduced and established in ME2, if not vaguely chekov'd as far back as ME1. If ME2 had it as a major plot arc, ME2 would have been far more integrated into the trilogy.
Oh, I agree on both counts.Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Dean_the_Young wrote...
It is not deus ex machina, since it's existence is established fairly early in ME3's story (the beginning of the Salarian homeworld mission in the leaked demo), and the plot device is improved upon across much of the story.
Without speaking for others, I don't like it because I feel it should have been introduced and established in ME2, if not vaguely chekov'd as far back as ME1. If ME2 had it as a major plot arc, ME2 would have been far more integrated into the trilogy.
Well, ME3 is kinda "late" if you ask me.
And you couldn't even call it a Checkovs gun as it's not even properly foreshadowed.
And now I wouldn't.I call it an Ass Pull.
Liara says that Shadow Broker was already convinced Protheans had other plans. Obviously, it wasn't based just on 'hope'.Dean_the_Young wrote...
All LotSB establishes is that the Broker was looking desperately for anything, not that anything was there. While it can certainly count as foreshadowing, it isn't a reference.
krossbow wrote...
See, i just don't get this whole "Reapers are unstoppable" thing. Yes, they're powerful, but everything shown show far in the game shows that they are STILL vulnerable to the same things that everyone else is-- Namely, the Newton still applies.
You hit ANYTHING hard enough, and it dies, full stop. The derilict reaper was killed by a mass effect cannon (Albeit a large one), and Vigil stated that it was IMPOSSIBLE for sovereign to have invaded the citadel on his own without being curb stomped.
reapers relied on suprise to win before; they needed the citadel backdoor to effectively invade without large losses. If the entire universe got its act together and built up their forces to fight them, it could actually be a good fight-- The BIG reason why the reapers are going to be so dangerous is because the council's a bunch of morons who stick their fingers in their ears and yell out "LALALA, I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" about anything regarding reapers.
On that note though, there's a crapton of stuff that can be used for secret weapons. There's whatever is inside preying maw, there's those "Ghosts of light" on that one planet that the volus have been digging up, and a ton of other things left on planets.
Random citizen wrote...
krossbow wrote...
See, i just don't get this whole "Reapers are unstoppable" thing. Yes, they're powerful, but everything shown show far in the game shows that they are STILL vulnerable to the same things that everyone else is-- Namely, the Newton still applies.
You hit ANYTHING hard enough, and it dies, full stop. The derilict reaper was killed by a mass effect cannon (Albeit a large one), and Vigil stated that it was IMPOSSIBLE for sovereign to have invaded the citadel on his own without being curb stomped.
reapers relied on suprise to win before; they needed the citadel backdoor to effectively invade without large losses. If the entire universe got its act together and built up their forces to fight them, it could actually be a good fight-- The BIG reason why the reapers are going to be so dangerous is because the council's a bunch of morons who stick their fingers in their ears and yell out "LALALA, I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" about anything regarding reapers.
On that note though, there's a crapton of stuff that can be used for secret weapons. There's whatever is inside preying maw, there's those "Ghosts of light" on that one planet that the volus have been digging up, and a ton of other things left on planets.
The main problem is that it is extremely hard to pull of a story with elements such as the reapers (or how perhaps how they should be) in it. Unless we are close to the pinnacle of what is possible to achieve in this universe, what "they" represent (a cybernetic super-intelligence with millions of years on its neck) is beyond us and unfathomable.
Yes they are still subject to the laws of the universe, (unless they know how to change them or escape them) but they would most certainly know how to better then anyone else use these laws to their advantage.
My mind is very limited, but if I was a reaper, and was able to generate a strong enough mass effect field, I would not only choose my battles and have lots of backup plans if things went wrong, but I would also lower the mass of any incoming projectiles to the point of them not being dangerous to my kinetic shielding.
krossbow wrote...
Random citizen wrote...
krossbow wrote...
See, i just don't get this whole "Reapers are unstoppable" thing. Yes, they're powerful, but everything shown show far in the game shows that they are STILL vulnerable to the same things that everyone else is-- Namely, the Newton still applies.
You hit ANYTHING hard enough, and it dies, full stop. The derilict reaper was killed by a mass effect cannon (Albeit a large one), and Vigil stated that it was IMPOSSIBLE for sovereign to have invaded the citadel on his own without being curb stomped.
reapers relied on suprise to win before; they needed the citadel backdoor to effectively invade without large losses. If the entire universe got its act together and built up their forces to fight them, it could actually be a good fight-- The BIG reason why the reapers are going to be so dangerous is because the council's a bunch of morons who stick their fingers in their ears and yell out "LALALA, I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" about anything regarding reapers.
On that note though, there's a crapton of stuff that can be used for secret weapons. There's whatever is inside preying maw, there's those "Ghosts of light" on that one planet that the volus have been digging up, and a ton of other things left on planets.
The main problem is that it is extremely hard to pull of a story with elements such as the reapers (or how perhaps how they should be) in it. Unless we are close to the pinnacle of what is possible to achieve in this universe, what "they" represent (a cybernetic super-intelligence with millions of years on its neck) is beyond us and unfathomable.
Yes they are still subject to the laws of the universe, (unless they know how to change them or escape them) but they would most certainly know how to better then anyone else use these laws to their advantage.
My mind is very limited, but if I was a reaper, and was able to generate a strong enough mass effect field, I would not only choose my battles and have lots of backup plans if things went wrong, but I would also lower the mass of any incoming projectiles to the point of them not being dangerous to my kinetic shielding.
While its true that they are millions of years old, they aren't actually "Awake" for all of that time-- They spend most of it asleep in darksparce. It appears that the reapers don't actually create any real science themselves, but rather "Harvest" theirs.
They fall asleep and are comatose for all that time, but then sweep through and strip the new worlds of any useful. developments as well as organisms. As such, they're lazy, like the combine. They don't waste energy on developing anything themselves, they steal it from others.
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Dean_the_Young wrote...
Without speaking for others, I don't like it because I feel it should have been introduced and established in ME2, if not vaguely chekov'd as far back as ME1. If ME2 had it as a major plot arc, ME2 would have been far more integrated into the trilogy.
Dean_the_Young wrote...
A weak plot device, certainly, but the idea of intact Prothean/earlier civlizations having left secrets is pretty established. Once you know the Reapers exist there are plenty of veiled references, and there's been more than a few planet scans that have toyed with the idea of things hiding from us.
It lacks a certain style, but it's not coming completely out of nowhere.
Troika0 wrote...
Dean_the_Young wrote...
A weak plot device, certainly, but the idea of intact Prothean/earlier civlizations having left secrets is pretty established. Once you know the Reapers exist there are plenty of veiled references, and there's been more than a few planet scans that have toyed with the idea of things hiding from us.
It lacks a certain style, but it's not coming completely out of nowhere.
It boggles my mind that the writers would actually let the plot circle itself by letting another prothean relic be the means by which a conflict is resolved. Why do this? It certainly doesn't serve any thematic purpose.
Random citizen wrote...
Which brings me back to my first point. Why would they do that if it meant slower evolution? If they are lazy for no reason, its just a one of those qualities that are given them in order to nerf them. After all, there is no appearnt reason for them to sleep or anything. Space is full of energy and resources for anyone with acess to FTL and other types of super advanced tech.
Modifié par Yuqi, 27 décembre 2011 - 03:44 .
Yuqi wrote...
Some of the leaked endings are facepalm worthy. The good ending..is especially facepalm worthy. I hope they have changed them since.
Shepard gets nailed to a reaper to save mankind
Modifié par Swampthing500, 27 décembre 2011 - 04:46 .
Swampthing500 wrote...
Spoiler warning!
Seriously, just skip the next part!
From the script and other spoilers I have read, galactic readiness determines what condition Earth is in once you defeat the Reapers.
The actual means of defeating the Reapers is apparantly a Deus Ex Machina. The technology they find magically makes everything better somewhow. The technology is from the Protheans.
This annoys me because defeating the Reapers ultimately does come down to some piece of technology rather than the combined efforts of the galaxy.
Now, if you were locating and developing technology that would gradually weaken the Reapers in different ways as a prelude to the main assault would be fine: weaken their sheilds, penetrate their armour, resist their weapons. But having everything rely on a "Catalyst" or "Crucible" is lazy.
Swampthing500 wrote...
Spoiler warning!
Seriously, just skip the next part!
From the script and other spoilers I have read, galactic readiness determines what condition Earth is in once you defeat the Reapers.
The actual means of defeating the Reapers is apparantly a Deus Ex Machina. The technology they find magically makes everything better somewhow. The technology is from the Protheans.
This annoys me because defeating the Reapers ultimately does come down to some piece of technology rather than the combined efforts of the galaxy.
Now, if you were locating and developing technology that would gradually weaken the Reapers in different ways as a prelude to the main assault would be fine: weaken their sheilds, penetrate their armour, resist their weapons. But having everything rely on a "Catalyst" or "Crucible" is lazy.
krossbow wrote...
Swampthing500 wrote...
Spoiler warning!
Seriously, just skip the next part!
From the script and other spoilers I have read, galactic readiness determines what condition Earth is in once you defeat the Reapers.
The actual means of defeating the Reapers is apparantly a Deus Ex Machina. The technology they find magically makes everything better somewhow. The technology is from the Protheans.
This annoys me because defeating the Reapers ultimately does come down to some piece of technology rather than the combined efforts of the galaxy.
Now, if you were locating and developing technology that would gradually weaken the Reapers in different ways as a prelude to the main assault would be fine: weaken their sheilds, penetrate their armour, resist their weapons. But having everything rely on a "Catalyst" or "Crucible" is lazy.
The sad problem is, however, that with a massive war scenario, its difficult to make a single character feel like the "Main" reason for beating the reapers without a central reason for the reapers defeat.
If its a giant armada fighting them, it doesn't feel personal-- if its shepard personally finding ancient artifacts or defeating a "Mothership" type reaper from the inside, it seems more like YOU did it.
Now, that being said, i do agree with you; i just am admitting that bioware has a difficult task and will probably go with the path of least resistance.
Modifié par Swampthing500, 27 décembre 2011 - 04:58 .
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