125 réponses à ce sujet

[Someone With Mass]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Well, there will be moments when Shepard is all by himself. I'd guess Kai Leng jumps him then.

Ah, but Shepard still wins. Combat exploits the player can use, staggering effects, etc.

If that's the way it goes down, that is.

[SpiderFan1217]

Gunderic wrote...

Broodriguez wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

You folks need to learn to recognize a mary sue. Kai Leng isn't one.

kai leng is a mary sue ese, who beats a squad of highly trained turians with a pocket knife?

Batman. Except replace 'turians' with 'gangsters sporting submachine guns', and replace 'pocket knife' with his fists. :happy:

No see, every one uses Batman. Use Slade, or better yet, The Red Hood. We would also except Daredevil, Nightwing, Moon Knight, and Elektra.

[Dean_the_Young]

Bleachrude wrote...

I'm really trying to understand, but this makes no sense...

There is literally no way Shepard's rival can be a rival since outside of scripted combats, antagonists in video games are designed to lose...

No, they're designed to oppose. Plenty of series have antagonists who not only are capable of winning individual encounters, but some even do so by using the strength of the main character.

Let's take an example of, say, the Korlus mission. It's not actually Grunt's recruitment mission, after all, it's Okeer's. Shepard was supposed to, and trying, to kill Okeer. The Blue Suns were opposing us. They were the antagonists. When we went to fight Jedora, it was because she was threatening to kill Okeer.

We fought Jedora, but we didn't stop her efforts from killing Okeer. Even though we beat her in a fight, the antagonist overcame the protagonist. Shepard won the fight, but failed the mission. The game never gave this a second thought, but it did occur.


Now, Jedora died. Did she have to, however? 

Not really. We have plenty of cutscenes in which, after we beat some people in a fight, someone is alive and wounded. We could have Jedora be one such person, and give her a cut-scene escape. Maybe Jedora pushes herself off and falls to safety. Maybe she strikes a bargain by introducing something new to the equation.

Of course, we could also have changed the context of the fight as well. Jedora could have been flying a gunship overhead, a vehicle boss rather than a infantry boss. Rather than die, she could have fled, or had a scripted ejection sequence to safety.

If Jedora survived, we then have an antagonist who fought Shepard, lost to Shepard in the fight, but also stopped Shepard's goal of recruiting Okeer. We have the makings of a rivalry.

[Dean_the_Young]

JohnnyTheWolf wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

JohnnyTheWolf wrote...

Could the Illusive Man be considered as Shepard's rival in terms of leadership? Because, aside from Miranda's contrived defection, he is portrayed as an exceptional tactician as well as a charismatic leader.

No. He's a strategist, certainly, and certainly a manipulator, but he's neither shown as a tactician or a personal leader. The only times we see him in the games, after all, are our conferences with him.

Rivals by and large have to be in the same or similar schools of comparison. Shepard is a leader and fighter, but the Illusive Man is an organizer and manipulator. They don't have sufficient cross-competencies.

Someone to be called Shepard's rival needs to be able to lead AND fight.

Good point.

Technically, Miranda could have been just that: she's a strong fighter and also an exceptional tactician. Sure, the game doesn't do a very good job at showing that, but yeah...

Ah, but Miranda was an immediate subordinate. And a tsundere.


I think 'fake tsundere seductress,' a Miranda who pretends to be swayed by Shepard but is in fact a die-hard Cerberus loyalist to the end, would have been a wonderful twist, but alas. Five conversations and its twu luv.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 26 décembre 2011 - 04:46 .

[SpiderFan1217]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

JohnnyTheWolf wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

JohnnyTheWolf wrote...

Could the Illusive Man be considered as Shepard's rival in terms of leadership? Because, aside from Miranda's contrived defection, he is portrayed as an exceptional tactician as well as a charismatic leader.

No. He's a strategist, certainly, and certainly a manipulator, but he's neither shown as a tactician or a personal leader. The only times we see him in the games, after all, are our conferences with him.

Rivals by and large have to be in the same or similar schools of comparison. Shepard is a leader and fighter, but the Illusive Man is an organizer and manipulator. They don't have sufficient cross-competencies.

Someone to be called Shepard's rival needs to be able to lead AND fight.

Good point.

Technically, Miranda could have been just that: she's a strong fighter and also an exceptional tactician. Sure, the game doesn't do a very good job at showing that, but yeah...

Ah, but Miranda was an immediate subordinate. And a tsundere.


I think 'fake tsundere seductress,' a Miranda who pretends to be swayed by Shepard but is in fact a die-hard Cerberus loyalist to the end, would have been a wonderful twist, but alas. Five conversations and its twu luv.

  HEY! That's five conversations and A LOYALTY MISSION! 

[Dean_the_Young]

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

  HEY! That's five conversations and A LOYALTY MISSION! 

Awfully convenient she had a big emotional secret for Shepard to find and help with and win her personal loyalty at just the right time to justify Shepard opening Miranda's heart and see the inner Miranda, lonely and insecure, buried deep within...



I like Moist van Lipwig of the Discworld series. He has a sincere voice, an honest handshake, and superb people skills. He's also an excellent con-man because he has lots of inner Lipwigs burried around for people to uncover for themselves.

[DragonTIM]

Maybe Kai Leng is the secret collectors edition character, he might become Zevran of Mass Effect.

[JeffZero]

When I compare the Mass Effect novels to many of the books I've read by particularly talented novelists I can't help but agree with that assessment, of course, Sofa Lamb. But when I compare them to most other tie-ins -- many Star Trek books, every Stargate book, the Battlestar Galactica books, the Halo books, so on and so forth -- I find the second and third novels relatively exceptional while the first remains about on-par.

In other words, pin "Ascension" beside "Brave New World" and I'm going to pick up "Brave New World" every time. And sure, there's only so much time in my life and I should want to read the works that are great, not simply passable. But I do enjoy at least attempting novel tie-ins to my favored franchises because the rare decent one can be a treat in its own right. Pin "Ascension" beside "The Crystal Star", now, and suddenly I'm quite eager to re-read it.

[JeffZero]

You should consider reading "Revelation" first, D3MON.

[Dean_the_Young]

Funny thing is, though, that I felt most of Kai Leng's successes were reasonable enough for an action-villain. The Turian assault one was iffy, but context and establishing him as a bad ass.

The part that really got me, however, was the whole 'and Anderson shoots out his legs' thing.

[JeffZero]

...Yeah...

[Dean_the_Young]

Heh.

Heck, I would have been willing to buy into it if the station had had its artificial gravity shut off by the Reapers.

[Steppenwolf]

I don't really get why people are so put off by Kai Lang's abilities. Shepard goes round punching Yahg in the face and headbutting Krogan while also being able to make people do whatever he wants with one utterance. And it's not like he's any more of a badass than that Asari Spectre from LotSB. She took on Shepard and 2 more badasses by herself while bleeding profusely from severe trauma.

Modifié par BasilKarlo, 26 décembre 2011 - 07:42 .

[N7xSpectre88]

shephard kicks kai lengs ass in one on one hand to hand combat end of story.

[Drone223]

N7xSpectre88 wrote...

shephard kicks kai lengs ass in one on one hand to hand combat end of story.

Actually Kai leng is an expert at CQC and hand to hand combat more so than Shepard, (s)he won't stand a chance against him in a one on one fight

Modifié par Drone223, 27 décembre 2011 - 08:46 .

[BatmanPWNS]

Luc0s wrote...

Drone223 wrote...

N7xSpectre88 wrote...

shephard kicks kai lengs ass in one on one hand to hand combat end of story.

Actually Kai leng is an expert at CQC and hand to hand combat more so than Shepard, (s)he won't stand a chance against him in a one on one fight

Indeed. Shepard should f*cking run for his/her life as soon as it gets up close and person with Kai Leng. Shepard has a change against Kai Leng at a distance, but don't get that mofo up close because he'll kill Shepard with no effort. He managed to kill a krogan in a straight 1on1 fight with merely a combat knife. Kai Leng should not be underestimated.

But most people here have a big ego and think Shep can handle anything. For their sake, I hope Bioware lets their die quickly against Kai Leng.

[Drone223]

^Pretty much, Shepard has to show some weekness eventually, and Kai Leng should be there to take full advantage of Shepard's weekness

Shepard is a human being, not a god(dess) 

Modifié par Drone223, 27 décembre 2011 - 09:21 .