187 réponses à ce sujet

[Alanosborn1991]

What I don't get is how Skyrim has a whole country on one disc yet Mass Effect 2 needs 2 discs for space hallways and long load times.

[Praetor Knight]

Alanosborn1991 wrote...

What I don't get is how Skyrim has a whole country on one disc yet Mass Effect 2 needs 2 discs for space hallways and long load times.

I'd say province, certainly not a country, IMHO.



And the gamebryo engine works very differently than what ME1 and ME2 use. So I wouldn't compare the two games like that without knowing much much more about them.

Edit: I'm off, it's actually the creation engine that Skyrim uses.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 26 décembre 2011 - 07:18 .

[Savber100]

Terror_K wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Ok, who wants us to cut dialog so you can have flowing hair? Hands up for a count please.

Everything in a game takes up space. Dialog = space. VO = space. Art = space. Animations = space. Hair movement = space.

Multiplayer = space. Kinect support = space.

He got you there, Priestly. 

If we're really going to talk about best resource management, lets discuss the addition of a mode that very few fans were fevorously clamoring for or the Kinect feature that no one really wanted. 

How about we cut the MP or at least the Kinect feature out so that we can trade for some greater attention to detail and less contradictory cinematics (e.g. wrong pistol in cutscenes etc).Why not instead invest the "space" for MP and Kinect on better stuff like making the animation in ME match what we see in games like Uncharted? 

Oh well since it's too late for that at least the MP mode might be fun for 2-3 weeks. 

Modifié par Savber100, 26 décembre 2011 - 07:35 .

[Terror_K]

UE3 has always been a bloaty engine compared to most, but it does make up for it because quite often you don't need a monster PC for games to look spectacular and be ramped up.

That said, Skyrim runs pretty damn smoothly on high settings on my five-year-old rig too.

[CroGamer002]

Gabriel Stelinski wrote...

Ohei wrote...

Well, so far I haven't seen Ashley's new hair move once even when there's hardcore wind blowing. Unless I missed it, but I don't think I did.

Yet ANOTHER reason for me to hate Williams' new design. Addendum: I like the armor, but still hate the hair.

That's odd reason to hate that hair.

[CroGamer002]

Terror_K wrote...

UE3 has always been a bloaty engine compared to most, but it does make up for it because quite often you don't need a monster PC for games to look spectacular and be ramped up.

That said, Skyrim runs pretty damn smoothly on high settings on my five-year-old rig too.

I have exactly old PC and it's not true for me and an upgrade is too expensive for me.

[LGTX]

Gamebryo has this handy script system which allows direct integration of gameplay events, ecosystems and questing into one open-ended area. The approach is actually simpler than in games a-la Mass Effect, regardless of the scale - and admittedly, it does what it does best. But there are no complex animation systems, spectacular setpieces or prerendered videos to speak of, much less the realistic character development and interaction ME is so vigorously shooting for. So we can't exactly compare their compression methods - apart from being built on completely different engines and representing completely different genres, they also offer radically different types of content.

Modifié par LGTX, 26 décembre 2011 - 08:28 .

[DocDoomII]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Ok, who wants us to cut dialog so you can have flowing hair? Hands up for a count please.

Everything in a game takes up space. Dialog = space. VO = space. Art = space. Animations = space. Hair movement = space. Some things are more important than other things and the dev team balances out all of the elements that go into a game. Animated hair, in our opinion, is not as important as more areas to explore, dialogs to be had, etc.

I at least hope that those "more areas to explore" will not suffer from the Dragon Age II syndrome, also known as copy & paste.

[mybudgee]

Whoa..my anticipation for Skyrim is reaching a fever pitch

[DarthSliver]

Chris Priestly wrote...

burr beer wrote...

Why do you always have to make it an either-or situation though?  You make it sound like there's just a small team working on this.

Team size has nothign to do with it. I'm sure if the team wanted it, they could have motion hair (as pointed out, teh Unreal engine does fine work with that feature). It is an either or situation though. Either it is in taking up the space to have it in or it isn't and somethign else is used in that space. We prefer to put in content rather than, what is essentially, a limited vanity item.

Well the PS3 uses Bluray disc so I dont think you have to worry about space there. I am sure the 360 will be two disc like ME2 if this game is as epic as you guys keep making it sound.  I dont know how hard it is to code things but if you guys could you should throw it in there like how Kelly was a last minute add to ME2 from what I heard lol.  But like I said I dont know how coding works but just a thought there. 

[DeathDragon185]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Ok, who wants us to cut dialog so you can have flowing hair? Hands up for a count please.

Everything in a game takes up space. Dialog = space. VO = space. Art = space. Animations = space. Hair movement = space. Some things are more important than other things and the dev team balances out all of the elements that go into a game. Animated hair, in our opinion, is not as important as more areas to explore, dialogs to be had, etc.

give us PS3 players flowing hair then. OR do what Blizzard does and only release a game when it's ready.

[Fredvdp]

Alanosborn1991 wrote...

What I don't get is how Skyrim has a whole country on one disc yet Mass Effect 2 needs 2 discs for space hallways and long load times.

Long load times are only there because some genius thought it would be great to force the player to watch the entire loading animation. If you replace the loading cinematics with one second videos you literally get 1-3 second load times.

Chris Priestly wrote...

Ok, who wants us to cut dialog so you can have flowing hair? Hands up for a count please.

[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/devil.png[/smilie]

How about a compromise? Somewhat less dialog and somewhat better hair?

Modifié par Fredvdp, 26 décembre 2011 - 10:22 .

[Fraevar]

DarthSliver wrote...

Well the PS3 uses Bluray disc so I dont think you have to worry about space there. I am sure the 360 will be two disc like ME2 if this game is as epic as you guys keep making it sound.  I dont know how hard it is to code things but if you guys could you should throw it in there like how Kelly was a last minute add to ME2 from what I heard lol.  But like I said I dont know how coding works but just a thought there. 

BioWare doesn't do diverse releases. The ME2 PS3 version was a straight up port of the Xbox 360 version with the same bad compression on the pre-rendered cutscenes, same textures etc. I think it is a shame, because I would like to see the space on the PS3 and PC versions, which is obviously not needed for Kinect, used for better textures or additional features, but BioWare hasn't actually done an optimized release since Jade Empire Special Edition or the first Mass Effect. Pity, because on PC the ME2 Xbox 360 textures are a complete eyesore during close-ups because they don't scale up very well. 

Boilerplate disclaimer: I own all three gaming platforms, and would prefer it if BioWare went the route Eidos did with Deus Ex: Human Revolution. Put seperate teams on console and PC versions and instead of porting code across, simply let the PC team decide how best to implement a feature for the platform, instead of forcing console interfaces and tech where it doesn't belong or fit.

[Fredvdp]

Delerius_Jedi wrote...

DarthSliver wrote...

Well the PS3 uses Bluray disc so I dont think you have to worry about space there. I am sure the 360 will be two disc like ME2 if this game is as epic as you guys keep making it sound.  I dont know how hard it is to code things but if you guys could you should throw it in there like how Kelly was a last minute add to ME2 from what I heard lol.  But like I said I dont know how coding works but just a thought there. 

BioWare doesn't do diverse releases. The ME2 PS3 version was a straight up port of the Xbox 360 version with the same bad compression on the pre-rendered cutscenes, same textures etc.

Same with the PC version. While I admire the overall visual style, animation and character models, the texture quality can be quite painful. I tried using Jean-Luc's Texmod but that makes my game unstable. The irony about the prerendered cutscenes is that they are pre-rendered because they have more models and detail, but they are rendered at a low resolution (720p), heavilly compressed and capped at 30 fps making them look worse than the in-game render.

When you have a game where the developer made so many compromises in the visuals it's normal that even older PCs run it at high resolutions and high framerates, and the contrast between the quality of the in-game render and the prerendered cutscenes is enormous, just like it was with KotOR.

And I don't mind low quality as much as inconsistency. I could live with low-res armor textures if faces looked just as bad, but those actually looked decent which is another contrast in visual quality.

Modifié par Fredvdp, 26 décembre 2011 - 11:01 .

[jackyboy666]

It's still a game at the end of the day. Not everything can be perfect or super realistic. I'd much rather they spend time getting Beattie back in ;-)

[Fredvdp]

jackyboy666 wrote...

It's still a game at the end of the day. Not everything can be perfect or super realistic. I'd much rather they spend time getting Beattie back in ;-)

You're right, and though Mass Effect 2 is my favorite current-gen game, I think I've never criticized any other game more. That's because I do care about quality and think it's a bit of a shame that such a great game could have been better. My biggest annoyance was the lack of menu shortcuts (press J to go to journal) that ME1 had but ME2 didn't. I read a tweet saying those are probably back in so to me that would be a great improvement.

I had a good feeling about hair movement after seeing the improvements BioWare made to hair in Dragon Age II. After reading Chris' comment, however, I'm pessimistic. I guess someone on BioWare's Dragon Age team asked "would you rather have nice hair movement or more than one cave", and the majority voted on hair movement.

Modifié par Fredvdp, 26 décembre 2011 - 11:37 .

[Spoiledrotten]

What I don't get is this; If you do not intend to even try to make decent, or indeed any hair physics, why do you even give characters long hair? Shorty hairstyles, pony tails and buns can look sexy and stylish too.

I'm not really complaining about their being long hair, I just don't understand the rationale.

Modifié par Spoiledrotten, 26 décembre 2011 - 11:21 .

[Fredvdp]

I'd be happy with minor improvements, just enough so hair doesn't look like plastic. They don't have to make it like this:

The new default Femshep has long hair. I'm surprised how that will look.

Modifié par Fredvdp, 26 décembre 2011 - 11:34 .

[Homey C-Dawg]

It's a space issue huh? I presume by that that they might be at that stage in development where they're re-organizing and cutting things so it'll fit on the discs.

[Bleachrude]

Really...we're talking about hair physics?

Hair physics?!?!

BWAHAHAHA!!!!!

I LOVE BSN!!!

[Inspectre]

Mesina2 wrote...

Gabriel Stelinski wrote...

Yet ANOTHER reason for me to hate Williams' new design. Addendum: I like the armor, but still hate the hair.

That's odd reason to hate that hair.

Reduced realism is a odd reason?


More on topic, didn't Bastila have hair physics?  It can't take that much time/effort.  The way Priestly talks you'd think hair physics would only be in the most detailed fighting games.

Modifié par Dragon XIX, 26 décembre 2011 - 12:17 .

[LGTX]

And we're back to outright not BELIEVING the devs. We all know how to make good games work, and they don't.

[Homey C-Dawg]

LGTX wrote...

And we're back to outright not BELIEVING the devs. We all know how to make good games work, and they don't.

I know what your saying, but after being here for a while people learn through experience to not believe the devs. They like to use misdirection to keep people on their toes, but they aren't incredubly good at it.

I still love ya though Bioware, even though your pretty transparent sometimes.