187 réponses à ce sujet

[Halfdan The Menace]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Ok, who wants us to cut dialog so you can have flowing hair? Hands up for a count please.

Everything in a game takes up space. Dialog = space. VO = space. Art = space. Animations = space. Hair movement = space. Some things are more important than other things and the dev team balances out all of the elements that go into a game. Animated hair, in our opinion, is not as important as more areas to explore, dialogs to be had, etc.

I thought the hair on the Gears of War characters was pretty sweet. There's an excerpt from the book 'D'artiste: Character Modeling 2' where the artist goes into the hair workflow for the characters.

[Sesshomaru47]

Man shep has no hair. My female shep's hair is tied up in a bun. The other hair styles look greasy and unwashed...or maybe too much hairspray. I couldn't care less about flowing hair, I'm more worried it's going to turn out like DAII....crap.

[Dark Glasses]

I know little bit about Unreal Engine, and all I can say it only takes few hours to make flowing hair with no performance costs or whatsoever. Unfortunately Bioware team doesn't want to do it as Chris Priestly said.

"Ok, who wants us to cut dialog so you can have flowing hair?"
What the...?
You have to cut dialogs to add physics on hair? Now that's hilarious.

[LGTX]

Dark Glasses wrote...

I know little bit about Unreal Engine, and all I can say it only takes few hours to make flowing hair with no performance costs or whatsoever. Unfortunately Bioware team doesn't want to do it as Chris Priestly said.

"Ok, who wants us to cut dialog so you can have flowing hair?"
What the...?
You have to cut dialogs to add physics on hair? Now that's hilarious.

You know a little bit about Unreal Engine, Bioware have released platinum blockbusters built on Unreal Engine. Not to disrespect you there, but I can see a pretty wide gap which might be a bit invalidating to your "argument".

[Killer3000ad]

Chris's justification that it was either hair or dialog is hilarious as it reminds me of the DA2 team saying it was either environment design or more quests and the DA2 team went with more quests and simply reused the same environments. The result was a tonne of inconsequential FedEx quests and heavy environment reuse that irked the community to no ends.

Modifié par Killer3000ad, 26 décembre 2011 - 09:40 .

[Fredvdp]

100k wrote...

Hellbound555 wrote...

how about giving mod tools to the community so we can do it ourselves?

I'd like this question to be addressed, Chris.

This has been adressed before. I believe the official explanation was that their modified version of UE3 has to run on more than one machine at the same time and is therefore too complex to release to the public. I also think that just like DA2 they are legally not allowed to release it because it contains third party tools.

[Draugr]

Yes, tell us adding MP doesn't effect game development even though it involved getting a matchmaking system in place, netcode, adding in new character creation and tracking, making classes unique to their race, with racial abilities... All of that is fine, but animated hair, that would hobble them!

If they don't want to add it because they think their time/money is better spent elsewhere, they should just say so. I consider that a far more reasonable, and honest answer than, 'well adding things to games like MP, and Kinect support won't effect the quality of single player, but adding things like hair physics would.'

[who would know]

Hair that tries to look semi-real instead of like plastic adds that much more believability to a human character in a world that wants to approximate reality. Just sayin'.

Modifié par who would know, 26 décembre 2011 - 10:10 .

[100k]

Fredvdp wrote...

100k wrote...

Hellbound555 wrote...

how about giving mod tools to the community so we can do it ourselves?

I'd like this question to be addressed, Chris.

This has been adressed before. I believe the official explanation was that their modified version of UE3 has to run on more than one machine at the same time and is therefore too complex to release to the public. I also think that just like DA2 they are legally not allowed to release it because it contains third party tools.

Which we can raise an eyebrow at, because the modding community has been making not only improved textures, but costumes and extra aesthetic effects with their previous titles.

[X-JIDE]

Really, hair physics?
That's only going to affect so few npcs you know.

Ashley, Miranda, Kelly,
Any other human female.

It won’t affect aliens though. Funny how none of the different aliens have no hair, I take it barbershop’s are hard to come by in the Citadel.

[Lanteyah]

JamieCOTC wrote...
So that's what happened w/ DA2.

Ouch!

But I don't think it's as easy as some of you are making out to be. I mean ...get real

Modifié par Lanteyah, 26 décembre 2011 - 10:35 .

[the almighty moo]

i think i can live without kinect support for realistic hair.

seeing as i dont even OWN a kinect it's a moot point.

[1136342t54_]

Draugr wrote...

Yes, tell us adding MP doesn't effect game development even though it involved getting a matchmaking system in place, netcode, adding in new character creation and tracking, making classes unique to their race, with racial abilities... All of that is fine, but animated hair, that would hobble them!

If they don't want to add it because they think their time/money is better spent elsewhere, they should just say so. I consider that a far more reasonable, and honest answer than, 'well adding things to games like MP, and Kinect support won't effect the quality of single player, but adding things like hair physics would.'

They never said MP doesn't affect development at all. MP never actually taken away resources from SP. This isn't a resource argument its a space issue. When ME3 have so much stuff in it at this point adding more animations for hair will take away space from other things in ME3 the devs deem more important.

[Ohei]

Well, having experience from working for a videogame company myself, hair does take some time to animate depending on how realistic you want it to be (i.e character motion and changes in the environment/wind) and how long it is. The excuse being that it takes ''too much space'' that could be used elsewhere, though? I'm sorry, but it's not valid. It takes time and work, but it doesn't take up any remarkable amounts of space. And if we're talking about balancing items and how much space they take, like someone said before... Kinect, man. Freaking Kinect.

Modifié par Ohei, 26 décembre 2011 - 10:47 .

[Stalker]

I don't think the work on the hair is needed. Most of the characters have either short hair, or no hair and it's not like the hair would look terrible in Mass Effect.

It would be too much effort for too little result.

[mkk316]

I'd just be happier with better textured hair, and maybe a bit more styles for females. Whether the hair moves or not is a minor thing imo. Would it be nice sure, but if they just make visual improvements, I'm good.

[raist747]

I'd kill for hair that actually goes past the shoulders. Its depressing how few games don't take the shortcut and make flowing hair past the shoulders, like mid back or to the hips.

[voteDC]

To be honest the hair is something I don't notice when playing. It is only when other people mention it that I go "oh yeah, it doesn't move."

Perhaps it is a space issue because of the 360 being space poor? I have both Mass Effect games for the 360 and PC, I intend to do the same for the third, and it would not bother me if the PC had hair motion and the 360 did not. As I said above it isn't something I notice when playing.

[Draugr]

1136342t54 wrote...

Draugr wrote...

Yes, tell us adding MP doesn't effect game development even though it involved getting a matchmaking system in place, netcode, adding in new character creation and tracking, making classes unique to their race, with racial abilities... All of that is fine, but animated hair, that would hobble them!

If they don't want to add it because they think their time/money is better spent elsewhere, they should just say so. I consider that a far more reasonable, and honest answer than, 'well adding things to games like MP, and Kinect support won't effect the quality of single player, but adding things like hair physics would.'

They never said MP doesn't affect development at all. MP never actually taken away resources from SP. This isn't a resource argument its a space issue. When ME3 have so much stuff in it at this point adding more animations for hair will take away space from other things in ME3 the devs deem more important.

Actually they did say that MP doesn't affect development.

Rest assured that no compromises were made to either of these modes in the development of Mass Effect 3. 

http://masseffect.bi...ame/multiplayer

I would also argue that the amount of space that it would make to implement this is not nearly as large as some would assume. There are plenty of reasons as to why they choose not to implement this, I don't really think space would be the issue.

[SnakeStrike8]

Chris Priestly wrote...

burr beer wrote...

Why do you always have to make it an either-or situation though?  You make it sound like there's just a small team working on this.

Team size has nothign to do with it. I'm sure if the team wanted it, they could have motion hair (as pointed out, teh Unreal engine does fine work with that feature). It is an either or situation though. Either it is in taking up the space to have it in or it isn't and somethign else is used in that space. We prefer to put in content rather than, what is essentially, a limited vanity item.

I'd prefer that you lads would stop having the ME 3 multiplayer take up space and replace that with more dialogue, areas to explore, and so on.
I'd prefer that you put in content rather than, what is essentially, a limited shoot-em-up experience.

[1136342t54_]

Draugr wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Draugr wrote...

Yes, tell us adding MP doesn't effect game development even though it involved getting a matchmaking system in place, netcode, adding in new character creation and tracking, making classes unique to their race, with racial abilities... All of that is fine, but animated hair, that would hobble them!

If they don't want to add it because they think their time/money is better spent elsewhere, they should just say so. I consider that a far more reasonable, and honest answer than, 'well adding things to games like MP, and Kinect support won't effect the quality of single player, but adding things like hair physics would.'

They never said MP doesn't affect development at all. MP never actually taken away resources from SP. This isn't a resource argument its a space issue . When ME3 have so much stuff in it at this point adding more animations for hair will take away space from other things in ME3 the devs deem more important.

Actually they did say that MP doesn't affect development.

Rest assured that no compromises were made to either of these modes in the development of Mass Effect 3. 

http://masseffect.bi...ame/multiplayer

I would also argue that the amount of space that it would make to implement this is not nearly as large as some would assume. There are plenty of reasons as to why they choose not to implement this, I don't really think space would be the issue.

Posted a bit out of context. Here is the whole one.

How did developing multiplayer impact the single player game?[*]BioWare is dedicated and focused on delivering an engaging, fun, and action-packed experience for Mass Effect 3, one that lives up the BioWare standard. To reach that level of quality, BioWare has a dedicated studio in Montreal that is home to designers, programmers, engineers, and other developers. Both studios work together as partners, lead by the core Mass Effect team, unified in a single vision. Under the direction of Casey Hudson and other team veterans, both studios make contributions to both the single player and multiplayer modes in Mass Effect 3. Rest assured that no compromises were made to either of these modes in the development of Mass Effect 3.

[/list]It doesn't
Due to it being made by another team it doesn't have an affect on the resources given to the Single player mode. Any money or other resources given to MP would have never have been used for the Single player. They were made by separate teams. If we assume Bioware is correct then it would mean that MP isn't the issue here. Making flowing hair was extra space Bioware believed could be used for something else. It maybe something the devs don't care much about adding since it hasn't been any one of their ME games.

[DarthSliver]

voteDC wrote...

To be honest the hair is something I don't notice when playing. It is only when other people mention it that I go "oh yeah, it doesn't move."

Perhaps it is a space issue because of the 360 being space poor? I have both Mass Effect games for the 360 and PC, I intend to do the same for the third, and it would not bother me if the PC had hair motion and the 360 did not. As I said above it isn't something I notice when playing.

Same and Id even go as far as I dont notice some details of games until someone points it out or a minor glitch that doesnt effect overall gameplay experiences unless someone points it out.  I only added my word earlier in this thread because he mentioned space issue which I know isnt a problem for the PS3 disc because Bluray disc can hold most PS3 games twice on them without a problem. But only if it was possible the best thing Bioware could use that extra space on the Bluray disc is put ME1 on it, something like what Ubisoft did with Assassin Creed Revelation. That would be awesome if they could do that for the PS3 players but sadly there is still that issue with publishing rights on ME1 that keeps Mass Effect from being a Trilogy on the PS3.

[Storm Farron]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Ok, who wants us to cut dialog so you can have flowing hair? Hands up for a count please.

Everything in a game takes up space. Dialog = space. VO = space. Art = space. Animations = space. Hair movement = space. Some things are more important than other things and the dev team balances out all of the elements that go into a game. Animated hair, in our opinion, is not as important as more areas to explore, dialogs to be had, etc.

Multiplayer=space.

[Viking Stoner]

I'm all for animated hair like in Arkham City, but i'm just glad they are adding more hairstyles. I was disapointed the first time popping ME2 in to discover it had the exact same hairstyles as ME1 did with barely no change. The short hair selections were all sucky compared to default Shepards.

Modifié par Viking Stoner, 27 décembre 2011 - 08:33 .