187 réponses à ce sujet

[1136342t54_]

jreezy wrote...

You should just chalk up to BioWare not bothering with making hair improvement a high priority. I don't think it really is a case of quantity over quality.

This is likely the main reason. Seriously people ME never had moving hair but now since 'OMG MP!' is in its all because of MP and Kinect? Its obvious moving hair was never a priority in the ME series.

Edit: You want another disc for extra space? Alright but they won't be putting in hair animations they will be putting something else they deem  more important.

Modifié par 1136342t54 , 27 décembre 2011 - 07:54 .

[Mx_CN3]

1136342t54 wrote...


This is likely the main reason. Seriously people ME never had moving hair but now since 'OMG MP!' is in its all because of MP and Kinect? Its obvious moving hair was never a priority in the ME series.

The fact that the series has never had it does not mean that it isn't worth putting in.  A lot of people would really like to see moving hair, and it is becoming a standard in Unreal Engine games.

[stonbw1]

[quote]stonbw1 wrote...

Being ignorant re game designing/capacity, can anyone put into perspective Chris' comments as to what type of content might be left off the game in favor of hair animations? I'd assume we could limit the hair animation to main/dialogue characters, rather than every single figure ever seen in the game. 

Are we talking about an hour worth of dialogue? The absense of a side mission? What? Thanks in advance. [/quote] Most of the disk space mass effect uses is pre-rendered cutscenes so i'd guess that's what they'd be cutting but i have no idea. It's pretty platform specific as other people have pointed out, space on a pc and PS3 isn't that big of an issue but the 360 which uses DVDs and can have tiny hardrives it can become a serious limitation. 
[/quote]

Thanks.  Those cutscenes drive me up the wall.  Not the right topic discussion, but it seems there is so much: cutscene- combat-cutscene-combat, rinse and repeat.  Ughhh.

[King Minos]

Why use guns Agitatedlemon? Our beauty will win this war, all shall fall before! At the wink of an eye.

[DeathDragon185]

Storm Farron wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Ok, who wants us to cut dialog so you can have flowing hair? Hands up for a count please.

Everything in a game takes up space. Dialog = space. VO = space. Art = space. Animations = space. Hair movement = space. Some things are more important than other things and the dev team balances out all of the elements that go into a game. Animated hair, in our opinion, is not as important as more areas to explore, dialogs to be had, etc.

Multiplayer=space.

Kinect=space

so who wants to cut Kinect and Multiplayer for flowing hair?
please raise your hand

[Unbannable]

Well the hair in Batman Arkham City looked awesome, and that uses the same engine that ME3 will, so it's not a question of whether the engine is incapable of making great looking hair.

As always though, Bioware shows it's laziness compared to other developers like Rocksteady. Somehow Rocksteady manages to fit high rez textures, PhysX, 3D Vision, great looking hair (Talia Al Ghul's hair was fantastic!) etc into their games, where as Bioware can't even nail one of those..

[Mx_CN3]

Unbannable wrote...

Well the hair in Batman Arkham City looked awesome, and that uses the same engine that ME3 will, so it's not a question of whether the engine is incapable of making great looking hair.

As always though, Bioware shows it's laziness compared to other developers like Rocksteady. Somehow Rocksteady manages to fit high rez textures, PhysX, 3D Vision, great looking hair (Talia Al Ghul's hair was fantastic!) etc into their games, where as Bioware can't even nail one of those..

To be completely fair, Mass Effect has a TON more dialog, a wider variety of characters with different animations, and more prerendered cinematics (did AC even have any?  I remember AA's looked very similar to actual gameplay).  BioWare has always, to my knowledge, been a little behind in the graphics department, but graphics aren't everything.

That said, hair effects would be nice, and I wouldn't mind trimming 10 seconds or so of prerendered cinematics if it meant there would be room on the disc for hair physics.

[1136342t54_]

Mx_CN3 wrote...
The fact that the series has never had it does not mean that it isn't worth putting in.  A lot of people would really like to see moving hair, and it is becoming a standard in Unreal Engine games.

I never said it shouldn't be in the series at all I said that the devs obviously don't see it as a high priority or much of one at all compared to things they actually want to do.

[Ellestor]

Chris Priestly wrote...

space

Blasted consoles and their ancient ways, holding us all back... <_<

Modifié par Ellestor, 28 décembre 2011 - 05:15 .

[sk45]

the hair issue is not game breaking for me or anything but find myself noticing it every so often, it chips away at me like when characters hold the wrong weapon during cut scenes/dialog (sometimes weapon types they cant even have lol)

[Storm Farron]

It's probably why humans are the only ones with "hair". I guess this is also the reason why there are so few hairstyles.

[TwistedComplex]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Ok, who wants us to cut dialog so you can have flowing hair?

Uh.. That's not how it works.


As far as I know (And forgive my inferior peasant gamer intelligence) but as far as I'm aware it isn't the same team that works on model art and voice over.

Yeah, I'm sure Seth Green is poring over lines of code, trying to tweak the physics engine.


Also, i love this new approach that Bioware devs are taking. Every day someone says "Hey, Bioware can we have this new feature?", and as if on cue, here comes Chris or Stan: "OH SO WHAT, you want us to cut everthing else, JUST so we can have bowstrings?!?!"

I love how your view of Bioware games are "Hair physics and bow strings. NO DIALOG OR COMBAT AND ONLY ONE LEVEL!!!"

Either your just making excuses or Bioware has the worst time management on the PLANET. Someone can't put in for some overtime? Does overtime exsist in Canada? From the sounds of it, all you have up there are moose and vacation days

"Yeah sorry guys, we had to reuse the same area 20 times because we had to add a few pixels to the armor" LOGIC

Modifié par TwistedComplex, 28 décembre 2011 - 10:16 .

[TwistedComplex]

MistyStar wrote...

does anyone even know how much memory it would take to make the hair move? i mean it shouldn't be a lot should it?

Half the funding of Dragon Age 3, appearantly 

[TwistedComplex]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

I just want to say that I don't care how many discs or how much space on my HD ME3 will take, so I hope the team is not being limited by space restrictions or compression ratios.

Well, clearly they're not since The Old Republic IS FOURTY GIGBYTES 

[Dean_the_Young]

TwistedComplex wrote...
And forgive my inferior peasant gamer intelligence

You're forgiven.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 28 décembre 2011 - 10:35 .

[goofyomnivore]

Honestly, manShep's heroin addict eye bags or oily face; and femShep's duck lips get to me more than not having flowing hair.

[CptBomBom00]

sk45 wrote...

SNascimento wrote...


.
In the video you can see Talia's hair from Batman Arkham City. This game uses the same engine ME3 does.

that is exactly how i imagined it, it is well within biowares capabilities to achieve something along these lines

OKj off Topic: I never played batman, so why did she reacted to his face, for me it looked normal.

[Unbannable]

CptBomBom00 wrote...

OKj off Topic: I never played batman, so why did she reacted to his face, for me it looked normal.

It's because Batman was poisoned by Joker and was dying.  Batman Arkham City is a masterpiece, you should get it......now!

Incredible storyline, action and graphics all rolled into one.  It's the best looking UE game made to this date....especially on the PC version.

[LTiberious]

This must be said:


Space=Space

[Unbannable]

Mx_CN3 wrote...

To be completely fair, Mass Effect has a TON more dialog, a wider variety of characters with different animations, and more prerendered cinematics (did AC even have any?  I remember AA's looked very similar to actual gameplay).  BioWare has always, to my knowledge, been a little behind in the graphics department, but graphics aren't everything.

Arkham City has plenty of pre-rendered cinematics, and is also a very big game in it's own right.  There are lots of unique areas, a huge number of characters, and plenty of dialogue...although not as much as a true action RPG game like the Mass Effect series.

I'm still stunned Rocksteady managed to pack Arkham City with so much content into the game.  If you played Arkham Asylum, you owe it to yourself to play Arkham City.

[hawat333]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Ok, who wants us to cut dialog so you can have flowing hair? Hands up for a count please.

Everything in a game takes up space. Dialog = space. VO = space. Art = space. Animations = space. Hair movement = space. Some things are more important than other things and the dev team balances out all of the elements that go into a game. Animated hair, in our opinion, is not as important as more areas to explore, dialogs to be had, etc.

I do have space on my HDD.
But what's more important, it eats up development time, it eats up development money, and hell no, I don't want that. I want my exploration, my dialogues and more variables with the missions.

[stonbw1]

Unbannable wrote...

Mx_CN3 wrote...

To be completely fair, Mass Effect has a TON more dialog, a wider variety of characters with different animations, and more prerendered cinematics (did AC even have any?  I remember AA's looked very similar to actual gameplay).  BioWare has always, to my knowledge, been a little behind in the graphics department, but graphics aren't everything.

Arkham City has plenty of pre-rendered cinematics, and is also a very big game in it's own right.  There are lots of unique areas, a huge number of characters, and plenty of dialogue...although not as much as a true action RPG game like the Mass Effect series.

I'm still stunned Rocksteady managed to pack Arkham City with so much content into the game.  If you played Arkham Asylum, you owe it to yourself to play Arkham City.

I know off topic, but I've heard nothing but great reviews from players.  My plan is to play it while I wait for ME3 (see Mods, I brought it back on topic!)

[BentOrgy]

As a student at AI (Majoring in game art and design, and looking forward to this new term. Yay for high-poly modeling!) I can safely say that they're right, and they're also dead wrong. I haven't seen anything in Mass Effect that was so massive or intricate that it would stagger anything to put in things like moving hair. Game design is all about cheating; you know that really pretty wall, or column in that level you love? Yeah, its identical to the one next to it, its just been rotated of flipped upside down. We do it all the time. Look at a massive game like Skyrim; all those trees, people, buildings, and ground cover take up SPACE, but they managed. Its all about how you work around you engine's limitations.

Bioware's always been kinda lazy when it comes to building assets for their games (All female human have the same body type, all turians, all salarians etc.) so and they still required an extra disk for ME2 so that their textures didn't crash. I don't see what another disk would hurt. Does no one remember Final Fantasy? IX had FOUR disks, and no one complained.

I'm not bashing Bioware (Ok.... Maybe a little, but from a professional standpoint.) so accuse me of hating, I'm just seeing what I'm seeing.

[Atakuma]

BentOrgy wrote...

Bioware's always been kinda lazy when it comes to building assets for their games (All female human have the same body type, all turians, all salarians etc.) so and they still required an extra disk for ME2 so that their textures didn't crash. I don't see what another disk would hurt. Does no one remember Final Fantasy? IX had FOUR disks, and no one complained.

I don't see how that's lazy. A lot of games do exactly the same thing because creating unique models for dozens of NPCs would be a pain in the ass

Modifié par Atakuma, 29 décembre 2011 - 12:44 .