34 réponses à ce sujet

[kempie]

I've just started my first insanity playthrough on ME2, and am getting close to the Horizon mission. I just have Jack's recruitment and Kasumi's loyalty missions to complete first (and may do Overlord DLC too, but haven't decided yet).

I'm currently at level 14, have Assassination Cloak, Agent, 2 points in Disruptor Ammo, 2 points in Incinerate and Warp Ammo as my bonus power. Nothing in AI Hacking or Cryo Ammo, which means I have a couple of points to spare. I'm thinking of using those to upgrade Warp Ammo, as it will come in useful against the barrier defences that I'll encounter.

This is my first playthrough on ME2 for about 3 or 4 months, and I've only ever done a couple of playthroughs before. From what I can remember of the level, there's a few fights with collectors/harbinger, then in the final fight you have to fight a scion or two and get swarmed by husks.

I remember struggling with the final fight on Horizon previously, dying several times even on Veteran difficulty, so want to make sure I get my squadmate selections right before I start the level.

So who should I take along, and also what's the best heavy weapon to use if I need to use it to help get me through that final fight?

Currently I'm thinking Miranda for her warp and Grunt for his squad incendiary ammo and to take on the husks?

[ryoldschool]

Miranda + Grunt are good for that mission.  Mordin is also good with Miranda.  Kasumi, will have Flashbang since you are doing the LM, would help with Harby.
For insurance, the Arc Projector works great on that twin scion fight ( example with vanguard here ), but also the Avalanche will also kill a bunch of husks + damage Scions when they are bunched ( don't be shy with the ammo - use about ten shots on the ground where they are - will freeze and kill everything ).   In my vanguard video I have miranda + grunt and put one point in cryo ammo for the husks .

[CoffeeHolic93]

One point in Cryo Ammo that you can slap unto the Predator Pistol works VERY WELL against the husks. One or two shots on their health and it's dead. You can use your Incinerate (Or Mordin's Incinerate) to strip their armor before shooting.

If you don't want Cryo Ammo, shoot them in the legs with the Mantis - It's instant kill - Although you may want to save the extra firepower for the Scions.

A third way is to strip their armor with your pistol/incinerate and use CC-powers (Shockwave, Pull, Concussive Shot, Cryo blast - All from Squadmates of course) to kill them.

There's a myriad of ways to go about it, and none of them is necessarily the best. Try them out and see which one works for you. Good luck!

[goofyomnivore]

Cryo Ammo is great versus Husks especially the squad form. I'd personally go the route of upgrading Incineration to Incineration Blast. Then I would use Mordin's Incineration Blast in tandem with yours and  then use Jack's shockwave or Jacob's pull for insta kills on large groups of husks.

As for Harbinger he isn't so bad long as you don't get close to him. Just remember to always kill him last. The Scions aren't too bad either long as you aren't close to them. Praetorian just set your squad to one corner of the area while you kite it around. I do that so Miranda doesn't run up to it with an SMG and get destroyed.

Modifié par strive, 26 décembre 2011 - 02:55 .

[kempie]

Thanks - I quite like Kasumi actually; having just completed her loyalty mission, I never died, but had to revive her a few times. Once she uses her shadow strike, she has an annoying tendency not to return to decent cover afterwards.

Not sure about taking her on Horizon, as have concerns over her survivability and low weapon damage. I think I'll be stuck with her Flashbang on level 1 for Horizon (possibly level 2), as I'd rather use her remaining squad points to max Master Thief first. When she's got maxed flashbang (e.g. on Collector Ship), I can see her being more useful though against collectors/harbinger.

If I did take Kasumi, would you do a straight swap with Miranda (i.e. Kasumi + Grunt)? I can't see any point in taking Garrus or Jacob to Horizon, or Jack for that matter given that I'm not a biotic.

[Sarah_SR2]

The husk rush is easy if you just stay mobile and pick them off one by one. You dont even need to use powers really and can just shoot them like i did. There's plenty of ammo around and lots of cover to circle around and the scions are so slow and cumbersome that you can easily keep a good distance if you want to. Husks are thick too, because if one closes in and you side step it at the last moment, it'll most likely just run on past and you can spin around and kill it ) As for the scions, just keep alert for their rolling blast shockwave attacks and nail the suckers with the viper sniper rifle, warp and incinerate. The viper is a total scion destroyer.

As for squad mates, Miranda for her warp (armor and barriers) and grunt because he's a tank, has concussive shot which damages barriers and incendiary ammo against armor. Kasumi is good for flashbang against harbinger but not much use for anything else (on Horizon that is) although if she's loyal you could use flashbang as your bonus power. I used slam as mine as it flattens husks and is good against collectors once their protection is down. I found Miranda and Grunt useful against the Praetorian as well because as I've said, they're good at dealing with armor and barriers.

Modifié par Sarah_SR2, 26 décembre 2011 - 03:14 .

[Sarah_SR2]

I've thought of some more stuff. After the husk rush is over and the scions are dead, grab all of the ammo lying around and then hack the computer console in the centre of the spaceport so that Shepard can ask EDI to bring the defense towers on line. Once the cutscene ends, 2 waves of collectors and harbinger will attack. The first wave will land at the opposite end of where you entered the spaceport so you need to move you and yor squad to the end near the main entrance. Stay at that end and move between cover as you need to and pick off the collectors. A few husks will mill around so watch for them as they'll try and sneak up on you. Once that wave is over one of your squad mates will comment about how there must be more collectirs on the way. Grab as much ammo as you can and then move to the far end of the map where the collectors just were. The second wave will fly in and they'll land near the main entrance. From your new position the collectors are easy meat as they'll stay at their end and won't advance so you'll have all the time and space that you need. Just make sure you watch out for the husks that will approach, although you'll have loads of space between you and them in which to kill them. When this second wave ends, the Praetorian will arrive so make sure you grab the crate of power cells from the right hand side of the level near the main entrance. For this fight, just stay mobile and dodge around cover but do not actually take cover. And stay far enough away so you don't get caught up in the Praetorian's death choir ground slam attack.

[kempie]

Sarah_SR2 wrote...

As for squad mates, Miranda for her warp (armor and barriers) and grunt
because he's a tank, has concussive shot which damages barriers and
incendiary ammo against armor. Kasumi is good for flashbang against
harbinger but not much use for anything else (on Horizon that is)
although if she's loyal you could use flashbang as your bonus power. I
used slam as mine as it flattens husks and is good against collectors
once their protection is down. I found Miranda and Grunt useful against
the Praetorian as well because as I've said, they're good at dealing
with armor and barriers.

I think it was mainly the Praetorian that I struggled against before, but it was a long time ago, and I think I was a Soldier. I unlocked all the bonus powers on my previous playthrough, so could use flashbang as my bonus power, but I remember trying to use it before and not liking it.

Don't get me wrong, it's brilliant for Kasumi, but she doesn't need LOS for it to work, plus her power is instant, whereas when you have flashbang there's a delay. Besides, I think warp ammo will have more synergy with my build, especially when up against collectors. As I'm RPing an Infiltrator, I'm ruling out Reave as an option, besides which Warp ammo won't use up a cooldown, leaving me free to use my cloak.

Modifié par kempie, 26 décembre 2011 - 03:54 .

[ryoldschool]

kempie wrote...

... as I'd rather use her remaining squad points to max Master Thief first.

...

Dude, if this is her passive, then don't do it.  The passive is bugged and does not reduce her cooldown!  jwalker video  That is why you can max flashbang early in the game.

[Sarah_SR2]

On my infiltrator I used assasination cloak and the viper sniper rifle on the Praetorian and switched to the Predator heavy pistol when the viper ran out of ammo. There's plenty of ammo led about too so it's quite easy. I also used Miranda's warp against it and Grunt's concussive shot on the barrier. I had the collector particle beam as a back up but didn't actually use it as the viper and predator proved pretty damned effective for me. And you're right, flashbang is a pain in the rear to aim without practice and Kasumi is still quite weak at level 14. With my soldier the Adreneline rush allowed me to make mincemeat of the Praetorian in very short order using the same weapons and tactics.

[Sarah_SR2]

Sorry, I meant the mantis not the viper! I've got the viper on my brain! I took out the praetorian on Horizon using the mantis. Silly me! )

[capn233]

Kasumi's passive gives her more health though, doesn't it? That actually is somewhat helpful since she is sort of fragile. Plus SS does comparable damage to shields as Overload really, and after you have Flashbang it probably makes more sense to just have her use that every cooldown. Flashbang is great on basically every mission. Especially Improved. Flashbang kills husks if their armor is stripped and it stuns / overheats Harbi.

You can put points in Warp Ammo if you want. I am not in the warp ammo fan club, although it does synergize decently with Adept. But I took AP ammo on infiltrator, so what do I know? Warp ammo is ok if you are trying to maximize first shot damage on Collectors with one shot weapons like the Mantis.

You should put more points into incineration if you can. Fire good. You can use it against barriers as well. Or just shoot the barriers, they aren't very strong. But lighting up the drones and rapidly stripping armor is nice (armor on husks, Scions, Harbi, and the Praetorian).

If you can get 1 pt into Cryo ammo then consider doing that. The only thing that changes as you level it is the freeze duration; you don't need much more duration than at lvl 1 anyway. Husks are killed when they freeze (not abominations though). If it was between maxing incinerate and getting Cryo I would max incinerate.

You could also change your bonus power... if you did that I would go with 1pt in Neural Shock. But if you left it on Warp Ammo that would be fine too.

For specific tactics as for positioning and targeting, probably best to watch some videos. For the Praetorian, if you just keep some high cover between it and you then you can shoot or send powers at it fairly easily.

All of the squadmates you get before Horizon can have a role on this mission. I like to take Garrus and Grunt. Zaeed will do a little more damage with his guns than Garrus, but is more or less interchangeable with him. Garrus adds +5% Bros in Arms bonus, and says "Dammit Williams..."

Grunt has the tank aspect and incendiary ammo. He can hold the line against a wave of husks practically by himself.

I don't really use Jacob that much, but he is useful because of his health, pull (for either warp bombs or instakilling husks) and incendiary ammo.

Jack has pull, relatively fast biotic cooldowns, her custom biotic upgrade... and pull and shockwave can be used to good effect if you strip protections first.

Mordin has incinerate... I would max that before getting cryo, but his cryo blast has a fast cooldown and you can splash it on multiple husks sometimes.

Miranda is good on any mission. You will only be using warp and her passive for this though.

Modifié par capn233, 26 décembre 2011 - 05:27 .

[kempie]

ryoldschool wrote...

kempie wrote...

... as I'd rather use her remaining squad points to max Master Thief first.

...

Dude, if this is her passive, then don't do it.  The passive is bugged and does not reduce her cooldown!  jwalker video  That is why you can max flashbang early in the game.

That sucks big time! Does she still get the health and weapon bonuses from her passive though? I've already put 6 squad points into it - suppose I can re-spec her once I complete LoTSB, but that's annoying!

[CoffeeHolic93]

[quote]kempie wrote...


That sucks big time! Does she still get the health and weapon bonuses from her passive though? I've already put 6 squad points into it - suppose I can re-spec her once I complete LoTSB, but that's annoying!

[/quote]

It does, and having three maxed abilities on one character is absolutely redundant in my opinion. I've gone Overload, Shadow Strike and Flashbang on her once, and that was enough for me to realize "Yeah, I only use one or two of the abilities - the last one is overkill." . That and Weapon damage good. Give her the Carnifex Hand Cannon or the Tempest with a maxed Passive and she tears **** up. That, plus Flashbang, shadow strike and cheerful quotes ("Boy we're popular today!").

That, and and there's several Overload-bots avaiable as it is - why add another one when she has other uses?

[quote]capn233 wrote...

Kasumi's passive gives her more health
though, doesn't it? That actually is somewhat helpful since she is sort
of fragile. Plus SS does comparable damage to shields as Overload
really, and after you have Flashbang it probably makes more sense to
just have her use that every cooldown. Flashbang is great on basically
every mission. Especially Improved. Flashbang kills husks if their
armor is stripped and it stuns / overheats Harbi. [/quote]

As mentioned here, Shadow Strike is as viable as Overload for her. Plus it has versatility! It has a bonus to Barriers and Armor plus it can knock fools over aswell!

[quote]You can put
points in Warp Ammo if you want. I am not in the warp ammo fan club,
although it does synergize decently with Adept. But I took AP ammo on
infiltrator, so what do I know? Warp ammo is ok if you are trying to
maximize first shot damage on Collectors with one shot weapons like the
Mantis.[/quote]

I believe you need level 3 in Warp Ammo to one-shot collectors with the Mantis on horizon (without cloak) which means playing as a pure sniper. Which means little to no access to Incinerate on this mission which I would advise AGAINST

[quote]You should put more points into incineration if you can.
Fire good. You can use it against barriers as well. Or just shoot the
barriers, they aren't very strong. But lighting up the drones and
rapidly stripping armor is nice (armor on husks, Scions, Harbi, and the
Praetorian).[/quote]

To elaborate on this - Incinerate is either a one-point wonder or the AOE version for the Area firedance. Yes. Fire Good. The damage from the upgrades 1-3 and Heavy doesn't really add up much since you don't have Mordin's Omnitool (and it takes the same amount of Incinerates to strip a Krogan's armor with Area and Heavy - so always go Area).

[quote]If you can get 1 pt into Cryo ammo then consider
doing that. The only thing that changes as you level it is the freeze
duration; you don't need much more duration than at lvl 1 anyway. Husks
are killed when they freeze (not abominations though). If it was
between maxing incinerate and getting Cryo I would max incinerate.[/quote]

Only go Incinerate if you can get Incineration blast - otherwise get one point in Cryo Ammo. See my previous elaboration on Incinerate damage for a justification.

[quote[You
could also change your bonus power... if you did that I would go with
1pt in Neural Shock. But if you left it on Warp Ammo that would be fine
too.[/quote]

Neural Shock is probably my favorite bonus power as it's instant CC, and instant kills unprotected husks. Good for stopping a troublesome enemy from doing whatever he or she's doing, and it can stunlock Harbie and Scions rather effectively if you keep using it on them.


[quote]All of the squadmates you get before
Horizon can have a role on this mission. I like to take Garrus and
Grunt. Zaeed will do a little more damage with his guns than Garrus,
but is more or less interchangeable with him. Garrus adds +5% Bros in
Arms bonus, and says "Dammit Williams..."[/quote]

I like bringing Garrus aswell, his Concussive Shot is justified on this mission with all the barriers. And his power damage bonus from his Passive helps make it less sucky. I love all squadmates on this mission though.

[quote]Grunt has the tank aspect and incendiary ammo. He can hold the line against a wave of husks practically by himself.[/quote]

Pretty much this - Grunt can handle himself rather well, and distract the husks for you. Just make sure he has a few points in his Passive for the health regen.

[quote]Jack has pull, relatively fast biotic cooldowns,
her custom biotic upgrade... and pull and shockwave can be used to good
effect if you strip protections first.[/quote]

Jack is one of two squadmates with the fastest pull avaiable which can be a life saver. Always a good CC choice if you have defense-strippers with you.

[quote]Mordin has incinerate... I
would max that before getting cryo, but his cryo blast has a fast
cooldown and you can splash it on multiple husks sometimes.[/quote]

I like going for his Area Cryo first and then focus on his Incinerate later on. But each to his own.

[kempie]

capn233 wrote...

I
don't really use Jacob that much, but he is useful because of his
health, pull (for either warp bombs or instakilling husks) and
incendiary ammo.

Think he suffers from the fact that there's so many companions in ME2, and there's always at least one who performs a better role than him; for example you could take him along to help set-up warp explosions, but Jack is better than him at it. Similarly, he could do a job as a tank with maxed out barrier and a shotgun, but Grunt is a better tank.

Plus, I just don't like Jacob, he's a nice bloke, but he just seems a bit smarmy, plus he reminds me of that old spice commercial every time he speaks and then I just can't take him seriously!

Mi-Chan wrote...

kempie wrote...

That
sucks big time! Does she still get the health and weapon bonuses from
her passive though? I've already put 6 squad points into it - suppose I
can re-spec her once I complete LoTSB, but that's annoying!

It does, and having three maxed abilities on one character is absolutely redundant in my opinion. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/joyful.png[/smilie]
I've gone Overload, Shadow Strike and Flashbang on her once, and that
was enough for me to realize "Yeah, I only use one or two of the
abilities - the last one is overkill." .

I seem to keep forgetting I'm playing ME2 rather than ME1 (have played that a lot recently to create some new characters for ME2 playthroughs) and therefore forgetting about cooldowns. Kasumi's definitely better with maxed flashbang and shadow strike; agree she doesn't need overload as there are others better suited to playing that type of role on the team.

[xassantex]

as an infiltrator, you also need to keep in mind that anytime you cloak , your squad becomes the main target . Position them well, or they can both die in a glimpse of an eye.
Praetorian fights are a good example of that. When fighting one, i try not to cloak unless it's to save my own ass , or near the end to finish off that skull chewing idiot.

[capn233]

Each level of incinerate gives you 48 extra damage to armor... so that is what it is. I recommend putting pts in it faster to get to the evolved form of couse. It might not be that level 3 incinerate helps you much more than a lower level on this mission, but getting Area earlier will help you down the line.

Cryo ammo is good, but I don't consider 1pt cryo vital to success on Horizon. Nice for the husks of course, you can do it either way. Area incinerate will strip armor off a group, or you can shoot them one at a time with a pistol+cryo. Either way works. I personally would rather have as much anti-armor first, but everyone has their own style.  If you can't quite get Incinerate leveled and have the pt to spare by all means.  It is probably more useful than Warp ammo, especially here.

I agree with the thoughts on Jacob... he is not the best tank or not the best pull. But my point was really that you can find a way to use all of the pre-Horizon squadmates on this mission (which is almost true for every mission, but to a lesser degree than here).

For Mordin, I like to optimize for defense stripping on the squad... so if Cryo blast is actually better than Area Incinerate than maybe I should change my practice.

Garrus's power bonus was something I was thinking about but didn't mention.  If you really want to be creative, and he has level 3 or higher Overload, you can use it for the weapon overheat.

Modifié par capn233, 26 décembre 2011 - 10:08 .

[xassantex]

incineration blast - yours or mordin's - in combination with the shuriken smg + 1point neural shock or slam as bonus takes care of husks very easily.
I built up to squad cryo ammo on my infiltrator very quickly and never regretted that. Many times i've been happy my squad froze targets that would have killed me otherwise. It's like pre-death : not dead just yet, but frozen and helpless ... and not shooting at you !.
Incineration blast came as my last rank4 power but i just love it now .

[kempie]

capn233 wrote...
All of the squadmates you get before Horizon can have a role on this mission. I like to take Garrus and Grunt. Zaeed will do a little more damage with his guns than Garrus, but is more or less interchangeable with him. Garrus adds +5% Bros in Arms bonus, and says "Dammit Williams..."

What's this 5% Bros in Arms bonus? I've never heard of it.

[capn233]

Something stupid I made up to try and be funny.

[kempie]

Completed without dying in the end; took Garrus and Grunt. Grunt was awesome. Garrus went down less than a minute after starting the level and didn't improve much from there! Think I had to revive him about or 6 times overall compared to once for Grunt.

Thinking about replaying with Zaeed or Jacob (as a tank) instead of Garrus to see if they're any better.

[kempie]

Sarah_SR2 wrote...

I've thought of some more stuff. After the husk rush is over and the scions are dead, grab all of the ammo lying around and then hack the computer console in the centre of the spaceport so that Shepard can ask EDI to bring the defense towers on line. Once the cutscene ends, 2 waves of collectors and harbinger will attack. The first wave will land at the opposite end of where you entered the spaceport so you need to move you and yor squad to the end near the main entrance. Stay at that end and move between cover as you need to and pick off the collectors. A few husks will mill around so watch for them as they'll try and sneak up on you. Once that wave is over one of your squad mates will comment about how there must be more collectirs on the way. Grab as much ammo as you can and then move to the far end of the map where the collectors just were. The second wave will fly in and they'll land near the main entrance. From your new position the collectors are easy meat as they'll stay at their end and won't advance so you'll have all the time and space that you need. Just make sure you watch out for the husks that will approach, although you'll have loads of space between you and them in which to kill them. When this second wave ends, the Praetorian will arrive so make sure you grab the crate of power cells from the right hand side of the level near the main entrance. For this fight, just stay mobile and dodge around cover but do not actually take cover. And stay far enough away so you don't get caught up in the Praetorian's death choir ground slam attack.

Thanks, I followed this and it was excellent advice. Especially when fighting the second wave of colleactors after activating the defence tower; for some reason they stayed right down the far end of the map, so I was free to cloak-headshot them at my leisure

[capn233]

Zaeed or Jacob really won't be better at not dying compared to Garrus really.

I like to micromanage my squad a lot. I don't trust them to take decent positions on insanity.

Shameless plug for Horizon.

My build will obviously be different than yours, but I basically take more or less the same approach as any class (just powers are different, basically).

Horizon pt2

Modifié par capn233, 28 décembre 2011 - 04:13 .

[HolyAvenger]

Ehh I've done this on insanity with a number of combinations (Mordin/Miranda, Grunt/Jacob, Garrus/Jack).

I like going to the cover on the left and unleashing everything on one scion using a heavy weapon (I prefer the Particle beam in this fight). Usually your squadmates should be able to do take down the husks, give them a hand if needed. I tried shooting one of the scions before entering the room, it did nothing btw. Once one scion and the initial husk rush is over, the second one should be close to stairs. Use the other set to keep at the other end of the platform and kill it quickly.

Use that platform as cover for the rest of the fights, should be quite easy. The praetorian is simple. Run the length of the field under cloak, start firing. WHen it floats close to you, cloak again, run to the other end of the field, start firing. Repeat till dead.

[Sarah_SR2]

I'm happy that my suggestions helped you to win ) Horizon can seem scary the first time you play it but like all missions it can be tamed with observation and practice and easily beaten with the right approach.