113 réponses à ce sujet

[ediskrad327]

don't forget the fi in sci-fi

[someone else]

Luc0s wrote...

No it's not. Even when the mass of the ship is exactly zero, it still wouldn't go faster than the speed of light. The speed of light seems to be the absolute limit of our reality, our universe. Of course the recent happening with the neutrino's possibly going faster than light might change everything, but as we understand our universe today, FTL is impossible, even when you use "mass effect" to reduce your mass to zero.

You even seem to suggest that reducing the mass alone would be enough to reach light-speed without needing infinite energy. Again, this is not true. Even if your mass would be less than 0,000001 microgram, you'd still need infinite energy to accelerate it lightspeed, which is of course impossible.

And even with ZERO mass, even then, lightspeed would still be the absolute limit. FTL goes against all our current laws of physics, even with the "mass effect" mumbo-jumbo.

Mass Relays have the same problem. The way I understand them, they effectively create a vacuum between one relay and the other. A "corridor" that is absolutely mass-free. This however still doesn't mean that anything within the "corridor" could go any faster than the speed of light.

What you're failing to do is change the paradigm.   Once you have broken the einsteinian universe, you've got a whole new enchilada.   Presumably there are new physics that produce workable outcomes - remember the protheans took god-knows-how-long to begin to reverse engineer a mass relay -  obviously there is a much higher order of physics than we currently possess...even current string theory posits 11 dimensions based on our present understanding of quantum mechanics.

You need to remove your 21th century blinders...think outside the box...realize you don't know what you don't know.

Modifié par someone else, 27 décembre 2011 - 03:50 .

[Praetor Knight]

ninsegtari wrote...

Question: How many light years can be traveled in 24 hours on the Normandy?

Well, here's some stuff from the codex to take into consideration.

FTL Drive

Faster-than-light drives use element zero cores to reduce the mass of a ship, allowing higher rates of acceleration. This effectively raises the speed of light within the mass effect field, allowing high speed travel with negligible relativistic time dilation effects.

Starships still require conventional thrusters (chemical rockets, commercial fusion torch, economy ion engine, or military antiproton drive) in addition to the FTL drive core. With only a core, a ship has no motive power.

The amount of element zero and power required for a drive increases exponentially to the mass being moved and the degree it is being lightened. Very massive ships or very high speeds are prohibitively expensive.

If the field collapses while the ship is moving at faster-than-light speeds, the effects are catastrophic. The ship is snapped back to sublight velocity, the enormous excess energy shed in the form of lethal Cherenkov radiation.

FTL Drive: Appearance

New space travelers ask, "What does it look like outside a ship moving faster-than-light speed?" Part of the answer can be seen in a simple pane of glass. Light travels slower through glass than it does through open air; light also moves slower in conventional space than it does in a high-speed mass effect field. This causes refraction - any light entering at an angle is bent and separated into a spectrum. Objects outside the ship will appear refracted. The greater the difference between the objective (exterior) and subjective (interior) speeds of light, the greater the refraction.

As the subjective speed of light is raised within the field, objects outside will appear to red-shift, eventually becoming visible only to radio telescope antennae. High-energy electromagnetic sources normally hidden to the eye become visible in the high blue spectrum. As the speed of light continues to be raised, x-ray, gamma ray, and eventually cosmic ray sources become visible. Stars will be replaced by pulsars, the accretion discs1 of black holes, quasars, and gamma ray bursts.

To an outside observer, a ship within a mass effect drive envelope appears blue-shifted. If within a field that allows travel at twice the speed of light, any radiation it emits has twice the energy as normal. If the ship is in a field of about 200 times light speed, it radiates visible light as x-rays and gamma rays, and the infrared heat from the hull is blue-shifted up into the visible spectrum or higher.

Ships moving at FTL are visible at great distances, though their signature will only propagate at the speed of light.

Starships: Sensors

"Light lag" prevents sensing in real time at great distances. A ship firing its thrusters at the Charon Relay can be easily detected from Earth, 5.75 light-hours (six billion kilometers) away, but Earth will only see the event five hours and 45 minutes after it occurs. Due to the light-speed limit, defenders can't see enemies coming until they have already arrived. Because there is FTL travel and communications but no FTL sensors, frigates are crucial for scouting and picket duties.

Passive sensors are used for long-range detection, while active sensors obtain short-range, high quality targeting data.

Passive sensors include visual, thermographic, and radio detectors that watch and listen for objects in space. A powered ship emits a great deal of energy; the heat of the life support systems; the radiation given off by power plants and electrical equipment; the exhaust of the thrusters. Starships stand out plainly against the near-absolute zero background of space. Passive sensors can be used during FTL travel, but incoming data is significantly distorted by the effect of the mass effect envelope and Doppler shift.

Active sensors are radars and high resolution ladars (LAser Detection And Ranging) that emit a "ping" of energy and "listen" for return signals. Ladars have a narrower field of view than radar, but ladar resolution allows images of detected objects to be assembled. Active sensors are useless when a ship is moving at FTL speeds.

FTL Drive: Drive Charge

As positive or negative electric current is passed through an FTL drive core, it acquires a static electrical charge. Drives can be operated an average of 50 hours before they reach charge saturation. This changes proportionally to the magnitude of mass reduction; a heavier or faster ship reaches saturation more quickly.

If the charge is allowed to build, the core will discharge into the hull of a ship. All ungrounded crew members are fried to a crisp, all electronic system are burned out, and metal bulkheads may be melted and fused together.

The safest way to discharge a core is to land on a planet and establish a connection to the ground, like a lightning rod. Larger vessels like dreadnoughts cannot land and must discharge into a planetary magnetic field1.

As the hull discharges, sheets of lightning jump away into the field, creating beautiful auroral displays on the planet. The ship must retract its sensors and weapons while dumping charge to prevent damage, leaving it blind and helpless. Discharging at a moon with a weak magnetic field can take days. Discharging into the powerful field of a gas giant may require less than an hour. Deep space facilities such as the Citadel often have special discharge facilities for visiting ships.

So I'd guesstimate that the Normandy with its miltary grade thrusters and specialized Eezo Drive Core could average anywhere from at least one light year to possibly 18 light years over a period of 24 hours, depending on factors such as where the ship is going (near populated star systems with gas giants, so they can push the limits or out near nothing, where its better to be safe than sorry), how much the heat sinks can store based on the speed of the Normandy, and how often the drive will need to be discharged from saturating it, because you don't want to fry the crew inside the ship.

[Praetor Knight]

Calinstel wrote...

But if the ships mass is reduced to zero, then isn't the reaction mass reduced to zero as well? If so, then what produces the thrust? Space engines (rockets) in ME still operate the same as our current ones do. Throwing nothing results in the exact same opposite reaction. IE nothing. No thrust.

I'd guess that only mass relays and Reapers could ever even reach such extreme reduction in mass anyway.

Most machines are going to be highly inefficient with the average mechanical efficiency rating for drives ideally reaching in the high 70's, low 80's for military grade cores and thrusters, with commercial grades dropping lower from there. So with such extreme reductions, I thus doubt we need to worry about such a problem.

[mcsupersport]

www.cbsnews.com/8301-502223_162-57327392/2nd-test-affirms-faster-than-light-particles/


Article that says modern day work has been able to accelerate a particle past the speed of light, shattering known physics limits......

So in the future of Reapers it should be possible.

[TheJiveDJ]

Luc0s wrote...

TheJiveDJ wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

I think Mass Effect should have never used FTL bullcrap and should have simply used The Warp and Warp travel. ;-)

I mean, we already have the asari with their mind-reading mumbo-jumbo and in ME3 we'll have the "spoiler squaddie" with his "memories of the cosmos"-reading mumbo-jumbo, so why not drop the whole wannabe pseudo-science part and go for an all-out fantasy approach like Warhammer 40k and it's Warp?

In fact, I think The Warp makes more sense and is in a way more realistic than Mass Effect's FTL travel and Mass Relays.

Hmmm....Mass Effect's FTL may not be as "pseudo-science" as you think.  Humans avoid the effects of relativity by using element zero to reduce the mass of the ship to almost nothing, allowing it to travel at light speed or beyond (this is called the "Mass Effect").  The theory is scientifically sound; assuming we were actually able to reduce the mass of an object, it could theoretically be accelerated to light speed without the need for infinite energy while at the same time avoiding the effects of relativity. 
.

No it's not. Even when the mass of the ship is exactly zero, it still wouldn't go faster than the speed of light. The speed of light seems to be the absolute limit of our reality, our universe. Of course the recent happening with the neutrino's possibly going faster than light might change everything, but as we understand our universe today, FTL is impossible, even when you use "mass effect" to reduce your mass to zero.

That answer would have been popular 50 years ago, but not anymore.  Einstein theorized that lightspeed was the speed limit but most contemprary scientists are more open-minded about this issue now.  In-fact, tachyons ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachyon ) are theoretical fast-than-light particles.

Also, you're confusing things a bit.  Lightspeed can theoretically be broken, it isn't some magical thing, and the only reason we haven't is because of the two issues I brought up.  Relativity, and mass.  If you can circumvent these two things, then the c barrier can be broken.  For example, time dilation causes light to appear as though it is always moving away from you at the speed of light no matter what you do.  Time dilation can theoretically be circumvented (by using some kind of warp or reducing mass) so that's one thing outta the way. 

Next is the need for infinite energy; according to our current laws of thermodynamics, you can't get energy for free, therefore aquiring infinite energy is an impossible feat (ergo, lightspeed is supposedly impossible).  However, If you reduce an objects rest mass to absolute zero (again, we have no clue how to do this) you wouldn't need infinite energy to propel it.  There is already evidence of massless particles ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon ) in our universe, so again, not impossible, just highly improbable.

Modifié par TheJiveDJ, 27 décembre 2011 - 06:22 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

FTL in ME allows travel at teh speed of Plot.

That said, the reason why lightspeed is considered hte milit is becasue of hte mathematical equations.


Consider E=mc^2.
Therefore c^2 = E/m and c= (E/m)^-1/2

You also have the Lorentz factor γ = (1 − v^2/c^2)^−1/2

Since math throws a fit when v is greater than c, we say it's impossible. But rember that math is only a tool to construct approximations..a model.

[mybudgee]

God I love this damn game... few other pieces of fiction, interactive or no spark these kinds of debates.

[SomeKindaEnigma]

> c

[Swampthing500]

To quote the brilliant writer J.M Straczynski, all ships travel at the speed of plot.

[Swampthing500]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

FTL in ME allows travel at teh speed of Plot.

That said, the reason why lightspeed is considered hte milit is becasue of hte mathematical equations.


Consider E=mc^2.
Therefore c^2 = E/m and c= (E/m)^-1/2

You also have the Lorentz factor γ = (1 − v^2/c^2)^−1/2

Since math throws a fit when v is greater than c, we say it's impossible. But rember that math is only a tool to construct approximations..a model.

Beat me to the reference!

[Lotion Soronarr]

Divide by zero hilarity ensues.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 27 décembre 2011 - 07:28 .

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

500,000 Km/s because I demand it!

[Fiery Phoenix]

Luc0s, by "the warp," do you mean the warp drive like the one in Star Trek or are you referring to warping spacetime (e.g. wormholes)?

[didymos1120]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Luc0s, by "the warp," do you mean the warp drive like the one in Star Trek or are you referring to warping spacetime (e.g. wormholes)?

No, he's using a Warhammer 40K term.  It's that setting's variation on the old hyperspace concept.

[Cancer Puppet]

Forget FTL.

http://gadgetsteria....crous-speed.png

Modifié par Cancer Puppet, 27 décembre 2011 - 07:56 .

[didymos1120]

Did you just try to paste an image in directly?

[mcneil_1]

Cancer Puppet wrote...

Forget FTL.

http://gadgetsteria....crous-speed.png

Iwas wondering how long till someone mentioned spaceballs