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Skyrim and Dragon Age 2: a different perspective. WARNING: tl;dr


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#101
I Ryukage I

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alex90c wrote...

Tryynity wrote...

Why not compare DA2 to Skyrim? This is a Bioware forum not a Bethseda forum.

Yes they are comparable and yes they do have strengths and weaknesses.

Just like ingredients, if developers the time to read about what is popular and what is not - its all feedback.

I cannot blatantly say either game sucked - they have good & bad points. Both developers are great imho. I preferred DAO to DA2 to Skyrim all for different points.

I would take out the poopy story, gameplay & relationships of Skyrim but keep the open world/graphics - add the RPG style, companions/relationships, elves, of DAO - then add the animations from DA2 - get the Bioware writers to write the story and BAM make gazillions from ppl like me LOL


No.

I'm quite happy with Skyrim's combat the way it is, I do not need warriors lunging forward with sparks flying from them, jumping 10ft in the air to slam a sword in to the ground, rogues zipping around the place, mages doing a twirling routine, exploding bodies and lego bricks.

Just no.


While I agree on the changes to story and what not, I prefer Skyrim combat to DA2. That was a big jump from Origins to DA2 in terms of combat and all... If anything I'd keep Skyrim Combat, but add a crap ton more specific perks for weapons such as Great Swords, short swords, etc. Or get Origins combat whichever, but not DA2. 

#102
Realmzmaster

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simfamSP wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

DA2 npcs are bland and boring.


Compared to Skyrim's DA2 NPCS are the life of the party.

Don't know if you mean the companions or the NPCs in general, but if it's about the latter then one thing which struck me when playing Skyrim was how much alive the cities felt with the NPCs frequently interacting with one another and moving around. Even if it was just simple snippets of dialogue it was like night and day compared to how Kirkwall felt with most of its denizens doing at best some little shuffle of two steps forward, three steps back from their anchor spot, and pretty much never reacting to anything going around them.


Let me be more specific. I consider any character I do not create or is not the main protagonist as an NPC. But to make it more specific the companions in DA2 are much better than the ones in Skyrim. The general NPCs are dull and boring in both games.


I don't expect an NPC as deep as Loghain or Alistair in a game the size of Skyrim. You have to give Beth credit for writing some great characters and actually giving them a solid personality. If you've played Morrowind or Oblivion you'll know what I'm talking about.

Companions, I agree. But that's what they are, meat shields really. Bioware games are famous for their companions, I think even more than their story telling.


Why are the companions in Skyrim only meat shields? The Skyrim team could have done much more with them than was done. Given that the development time was 5 years the story should at least equal the one in Morrowind. But given the story in Oblivion I guess Skyrim's story represents a small step up.

#103
TEWR

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alex90c wrote...

No.

I'm quite happy with Skyrim's combat the way it is, I do not need warriors lunging forward with sparks flying from them, jumping 10ft in the air to slam a sword in to the ground, rogues zipping around the place, mages doing a twirling routine, exploding bodies and lego bricks.

Just no.



That's funny considering the Rogues in Skyrim happen to move just as fast as the Rogues in DAII when doing basic attacks and do spin jumps, which IIRC you disliked happening in DAII.

Actually, the Rogues run normally in DAII -- possibly at the same speed as Skyrim -- so they're not "zipping all over the place" unless they're jumping to enemies with no momentum.

Granted, I do wonder if it's possible for a code to be placed in the game where the jump can only happen if the Rogue is moving.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 02 janvier 2012 - 08:49 .


#104
alex90c

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

alex90c wrote...

No.

I'm quite happy with Skyrim's combat the way it is, I do not need warriors lunging forward with sparks flying from them, jumping 10ft in the air to slam a sword in to the ground, rogues zipping around the place, mages doing a twirling routine, exploding bodies and lego bricks.

Just no.



That's funny considering the Rogues in Skyrim happen to move just as fast as the Rogues in DAII when doing basic attacks and do spin jumps, which IIRC you disliked happening in DAII.

Actually, the Rogues run normally in DAII -- possibly at the same speed as Skyrim -- so they're not "zipping all over the place" unless they're jumping to enemies with no momentum.






I'm not playing as one and at the moment I've never seen a rogue fight in Skyrim so far (only level 12) so I have no idea what they're like. From what I've seen of magic, two-handed swords/warhammers/axes and S&S though, I prefer it a hundred times more than DA2.

just youtubed a video of dual wielding on Skyrim, and I have no idea how that's like DA2. At least it looks like they're slashing something, in DA2 rogues just place their daggers in front of themselves and suddenly LEGO BRICKS!

Modifié par alex90c, 02 janvier 2012 - 08:58 .


#105
TEWR

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alex90c wrote...

I'm not playing as one and at the moment I've never seen a rogue fight in Skyrim so far (only level 12) so I have no idea what they're like. From what I've seen of magic, two-handed swords/warhammers/axes and S&S though, I prefer it a hundred times more than DA2.


I have to say I prefer DAII's basic attack animations for the 2H weapons, but I think that should the stamina run low the attack speed should drop down. That would be more realistic as stamina is quite obviously how much energy the person has.


just youtubed a video of dual wielding on Skyrim, and I have no idea how that's like DA2. At least it looks like they're slashing something, in DA2 rogues just place their daggers in front of themselves and suddenly LEGO BRICKS!


It's the same speed. I'm not talking about the animations used but about the speed.

#106
alex90c

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

alex90c wrote...

I'm not playing as one and at the moment I've never seen a rogue fight in Skyrim so far (only level 12) so I have no idea what they're like. From what I've seen of magic, two-handed swords/warhammers/axes and S&S though, I prefer it a hundred times more than DA2.


I have to say I prefer DAII's basic attack animations for the 2H weapons, but I think that should the stamina run low the attack speed should drop down. That would be more realistic as stamina is quite obviously how much energy the person has.


just youtubed a video of dual wielding on Skyrim, and I have no idea how that's like DA2. At least it looks like they're slashing something, in DA2 rogues just place their daggers in front of themselves and suddenly LEGO BRICKS!


It's the same speed. I'm not talking about the animations used but about the speed.


The AWESOME animations where they slash with a 6ft long sword with one hand. Hell yeah, I'm sure that slash had so much firepower behind it, especially when you were slashing those big scary templars in steel plate, I'm sure it definitely wouldn't have glanced off their armour. 

The Skyrim anims look like they have more "weight" than DA2 where they just place the dagger in front of themselves.

Still, after viewing them I can't say I'm overly impressed with them. They're not DA2 level bad, but still they're not very good.

#107
Anomaly-

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RosaAquafire wrote...
It's perfectly okay to dislike DA2 or Skyrim based on their own merits. But the statement that DA2 is inferiour because it doesn't allow Skyrim's level of choice is as flawed as the statement that Skyrim is inferiour because it doesn't offer DA2's depth of character and relationship simulation.


I don't believe I've ever made those statements. My criticisms of DA2 were made long before Skyrim was released. I do agree that they are different games, despite both being labelled "RPGs", and I have always treated them differently. That being said, it was plain to me that the level of quality put into both was completely different. Skyrim delivered on most, if not all of what I expected from it. Huge, open world with limitless potential for roleplaying and playstyles. This is what the Elder Scrolls games have always given me. I've never expected a stellar storyline or deep companion interactions from Elder Scrolls games, and I don't believe they've ever claimed such, either.

DA2, on the other hand, delivered on little of what I expected, and little of what was advertised to us. Depth of character and relationship simulation? I'm not sure what game you played, but I found very little of that in DA2. "Think like a General, fight like a Spartan"? I found the game fighting me anytime I attempted to think for myself at all. And while I don't expect the level of choice found in Elder Scrolls games, we typically have a lot more than we had in DA2.

I hope that we continue to blur the lines between what each of them can afford to provide, but so long as resources are limited, I'd prefer for each to stay in their corners and subgenres so we can enjoy both sides of the coin in their best incarnation, rather than playing a watered down middle of the road version that excels at neither.


Which is exactly what DA2 felt like to me. It tried to blur lines of it's own and ended up with a visual style that was somewhere in between Origins-esque medieval and anime, gameplay that lacked the activity and responsiveness of a good action game but also lacked the thought and planning of a good RPG, dialogue/relationships that wanted to be taken seriously, while at times making it impossible to do so, and roleplaying elements that took control and seemed to want to guide you, then left gaps that you were apparently supposed to fill in yourself. To me, the whole thing just felt awkward, disjointed and constantly at odds with itself. Like a game going through an identity crisis.

I agree that these companies should continue developing the things they do best and continue making largely different types of games, but I feel that what is most important for Bioware right now is to decide what it is they're actually aiming for and to remember what got them to the dance in the first place.

Modifié par Anomaly-, 03 janvier 2012 - 06:02 .


#108
TEWR

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alex90c wrote...

The AWESOME animations where they slash with a 6ft long sword with one hand. Hell yeah, I'm sure that slash had so much firepower behind it, especially when you were slashing those big scary templars in steel plate, I'm sure it definitely wouldn't have glanced off their armour. 


I've actually examined them with my radial menu and whatevery camera movements I could do, and I can see the other hand near the hilt of the 2H weapon on 4 out of 5 animations, but for some reason it wasn't placed onto the hilt.

I think Bioware was in fact going for a 2H swing -- hence the whole 2H aspect of these weapons and the fact that the ability tree is called Two Handed -- but for some reason it wasn't implemented as it should've been.

I just chalk it up to rushed dev time and all that.


The Skyrim anims look like they have more "weight" than DA2 where they just place the dagger in front of themselves.


If we're talking about strictly the Skyrim Rogue animations then yea. They definitely look like they connect better. Speed wise though it's the same, if not roughly so.

#109
AudioEpics

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RosaAquafire wrote...

Yes, it's true. Here I stand, the only person in the world who has both DA2 and Skyrim on their GOTY lists.


You're not alone, I pretty much agree with you on all fronts here: )