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How genuine is Liara's love for Shephard?


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#276
naledgeborn

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Cthulhu42 wrote...

naledgeborn wrote...

Contrived story telling is contrived. Saying anything about Liara is genuine is like saying Jesus (pbuh) rose on the third day got an AA-12 shotty, a 22 M4 Carbine, and two .45 APCs and conquered the Roman Empire in a reign of gunsmoke. 

That certainly would have made the Bible more interesting.


And that was the whole point. After the end of Mass Effect she had nothing going for her so they overdosed her in badass to keep her interesting hoping we wouldn't notice how forced it all was. And what's sad is that people fell for it because... she's blue.

Modifié par naledgeborn, 30 décembre 2011 - 03:53 .


#277
Dariustwinblade

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Liara saving Shepard and being the broker was planned from the begining before the production of Me2.

#278
naledgeborn

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Ha! Right. So when Mac Walters admitted that they we're winging it [the story] he was lying? Can't find the article right now, but it's out there. Maybe not in those words, but he did admit that they were making it up as they went along.

So which one is it? Planned or improvised? The story so far indicates that I'm right and you're wrong.

Modifié par naledgeborn, 30 décembre 2011 - 04:05 .


#279
android654

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CptData wrote...

Dariustwinblade wrote...

NOOOO! Not the direction I want this thread to go.


I want moar character bashing flamefest.

Spread hate not love.

On topic

Liara love is more genuin as she does more for Shepard than any other LI.


Forget it. I'm in a polite mood today :P

(in my headcanon Ashley does a lot for Shepard. Not all of that stuff was shown or is PG13. And it involves elevators :innocent:)


I agree, I think of all the ME1 LI's Ashley was probably the one I felt gravitated towards shepard the most. Too bad she wasn't s/s applicable.

#280
Maria Caliban

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D3MON-SOVER3IGN wrote...

Her main reason for liking you in Mass Effect 1 is because he was touched by the prothean beacon. Also, she was always a loner until you saved her. Is her love for Shephard genuine? Include LOTSB if you must.

Yes, she genuinely loves Shepard.

#281
Seboist

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naledgeborn wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

naledgeborn wrote...

Contrived story telling is contrived. Saying anything about Liara is genuine is like saying Jesus (pbuh) rose on the third day got an AA-12 shotty, a 22 M4 Carbine, and two .45 APCs and conquered the Roman Empire in a reign of gunsmoke. 

That certainly would have made the Bible more interesting.


And that was the whole point. After the end of Mass Effect she had nothing going for her so they overdosed her in badass to keep her interesting hoping we wouldn't notice how forced it all was. And what's sad is that people fell for it because... she's blue.


You'll notice that a lot of these "fans" don't give a damn about character integrity or progression as long as their dudebro or waifu/husbandu gets shoehorned into being alongside Shepard no matter what. Liara "fans" are the best example of this, they don't care that her character was completely changed in order to make her relevant. The Garrus ones are another, they don't give a damn that the player influenced character development(or lack there of if he wasn't recruited)of ME1 was thrown out the window so they could shoehorn him into being Shepard's sidekick from ME2 and on.

#282
android654

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Seboist wrote...

naledgeborn wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

naledgeborn wrote...

Contrived story telling is contrived. Saying anything about Liara is genuine is like saying Jesus (pbuh) rose on the third day got an AA-12 shotty, a 22 M4 Carbine, and two .45 APCs and conquered the Roman Empire in a reign of gunsmoke. 

That certainly would have made the Bible more interesting.


And that was the whole point. After the end of Mass Effect she had nothing going for her so they overdosed her in badass to keep her interesting hoping we wouldn't notice how forced it all was. And what's sad is that people fell for it because... she's blue.


You'll notice that a lot of these "fans" don't give a damn about character integrity or progression as long as their dudebro or waifu/husbandu gets shoehorned into being alongside Shepard no matter what. Liara "fans" are the best example of this, they don't care that her character was completely changed in order to make her relevant. The Garrus ones are another, they don't give a damn that the player influenced character development(or lack there of if he wasn't recruited)of ME1 was thrown out the window so they could shoehorn him into being Shepard's sidekick from ME2 and on.


This is very true, I remeber the conversations with Garrus thart were'nt about the Turians as a people, was about him asking Shepard for advice on what he should do. They had a very Teacher/student relationship that I thought was going to resemble it self in some manner in ME2. I guess BW copped out by giving Garrus two statements for the entirety of ME2.

#283
CptData

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Barquiel wrote...

CptData wrote...

It's more a non-romanced Liara that gives me (just sometimes) an uneasy feeling. Does she feel something for Shepard? If yes, why can't I tell her no? I know how it feels to be in love with someone and don't get those feelings back. It must be horrible for Liara. I simply want to tell her: "let us be friends" without being an ass or cruel or something.



I don't see the problem...after Liara expresses her interest in Shepard you have three options for a response to her:

1) Yes, I'm interested too.
2) No, I just want to be friends.
3) Hell no!

She never brings up the topic again if you end the romance here.


Yes, I know. You have -that- option. However, it still feels as if Liara has more feelings than just "be friends". I mean, how many friends will try to bring you back to life once you died? A lover might want that, especially if entirely attached to you. Think Liara is that type. But could say the same about Kaidan & Ashley if romanced. They seem to be -very- attached. Would you break the rules if not sure about your feelings for that particular person?
Liara is the "uncomplicated" love for Shepard since it's not against the rules.

I still think, even after you said "let us be friends" Liara has far more feelings than that. Never experienced something similar with any other female LI: Miranda seems to be disappointed if you give things up with her for example, but doesn't bring up that topic anymore. Same about Jack I guess. Dunno about Ashley ...

Maybe it's just my own imagination.
However - it kinda makes Liara's love to Shepard quite genuine. She still loves him/her even after Shepard told her to stay friends and not more. It's the sad kind of love and a part of me feels sad because of that fact. However - I can't romance Liara. I mean, I can't romance a girl I simply just wanna see as friend even if she loves me so badly ... a relationship based on that situation can't work and will make both unhappy.

Or am I wrong here?

android654 wrote...

I agree, I think of all the ME1 LI's
Ashley was probably the one I felt gravitated towards shepard the most.
Too bad she wasn't s/s applicable.


Definitely. I really missed the S/S option here - I still have no fem!Shep started yet. I might do if I can S/S romance Ash in ME3 ... [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

Modifié par CptData, 30 décembre 2011 - 10:58 .


#284
alex90c

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I don't even know how this is a question, people whine enough that Liara's so dedicated to Shepard, why would it be in doubt that her love is genuine?

#285
android654

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Obsession and love are two different things.

#286
alex90c

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if love between 2 people is a mutual obsession, and liara is obsessed, doesn't that = love ?

Modifié par alex90c, 30 décembre 2011 - 11:34 .


#287
android654

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That's co-dependence which is also extremely unhealthy. But by the list of actions, this fixation is one sided, stemming directly from Liara.

#288
Dariustwinblade

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@android654

If she was obsessed by you. There wouldn't be a dumped by Liara route in Lotsb. Yes, she can dump shepard even when romanced in Me1.

So no she is not obsessed.

#289
android654

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Dariustwinblade wrote...

@android654

If she was obsessed by you. There wouldn't be a dumped by Liara route in Lotsb. Yes, she can dump shepard even when romanced in Me1.

So no she is not obsessed.


She has a dead man's trophy in her apartment. That's not a heartfelt memento. Also, one thing we learn from literature, people usually say more about themselves when they aren't trying to say anything at all. Her actions say a lot more than her stating that she doesn't want to take advantage of the situation, which is what I believe her dialogue is when she "dumps" you.

#290
DPSSOC

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alex90c wrote...

I don't even know how this is a question, people whine enough that Liara's so dedicated to Shepard, why would it be in doubt that her love is genuine?


Dedication =/= love.  Nobody questions that she's interested in Shepard the questions are why and how.  Does she actually care about Shepard as an individual or just the Prothean bits floating around in his/her head.  Or it could be she just gets a kind of rush from touching a mind like Shepard's.  Keep in mind we're given the impression that Liara's rather bookish and sheltered and Shepard, particularly Earthborn Shepards, have been living an adrenaline rush for a good portion of their lives and the enitrety of their adulthood.  It could be she just gets off on the thrill of it.

There's plenty of explanations for her interest in Shepard that don't actually involve her loving him.  Now I'm of the opinion her feelings are genuine, but that's mainly because (in ME1 at least) I don't think she's clever enough to lie, so perhaps I underestimate the devious little harpy.

It doesn't help that her interest doesn't really change based on whether she's romanced or not.  If her line for an unromanced Shep was a colder, "I gave you to Cerberus because we needed the best to beat the Reapers." rather than the "I couldn't let you go" it might not make people question it.  For an unromanced Shep that line rings a lot like an addict who needs a fix (IMO).

#291
BlueMagitek

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I wasn't aware Liara could dump you, I don't suppose any one as a recap or youtube of it?

Regardless, Liara does come off a tad creepy if you were indifferent to her in ME 1, picked her up last in ME 1, or were a jerk to her. The initial fascination is forgivable (first time seeing a human (who rescued her), human happens to be a Spectre with unique Prothean knowledge), but the continuation is... strange. Especially her motive for giving you to Cerberus.

#292
jlb524

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DPSSOC wrote...
Dedication =/= love.  Nobody questions that she's interested in Shepard the questions are why and how.  Does she actually care about Shepard as an individual or just the Prothean bits floating around in his/her head. 


I always got the impression she did care about Shepard the individual (which is actually more apparent with a non-ME1 romance).

If you don't romance her in ME1, you get an alternative conversation where she is concerned about Shepard's wellbeing given all that's happening and Shepard is able to discuss the nightmares s/he has been having.

In LotSB, you have her expressing interest in Shepard's well-being as a person again.

#293
Yuqi

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BlueMagitek wrote...

I wasn't aware Liara could dump you, I don't suppose any one as a recap or youtube of it?

Regardless, Liara does come off a tad creepy if you were indifferent to her in ME 1, picked her up last in ME 1, or were a jerk to her. The initial fascination is forgivable (first time seeing a human (who rescued her), human happens to be a Spectre with unique Prothean knowledge), but the continuation is... strange. Especially her motive for giving you to Cerberus.


I'm not sure what they mean by dumping shep, either. Although in ME2 if romanced she treats shep pretty bad, prior to, and during LOTSB. She uses him/her twice.So her line about being tossed aside for Jack  is pretty hypocritical.She tosses shepard aside for revenge.

SO she might have an obssesive compulsive streak. 

Modifié par Yuqi, 31 décembre 2011 - 05:11 .


#294
Dariustwinblade

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No I mean when doing the cabin scene at the end of Lotsb after Shepard agreed to continue the relationship.

When Liara asks about what happens to their relationship after all the fighting ends.

You can choose

"Happily ever after"
or
"Death most likely"

choose the second one followed by

"I don't know"

She gets hurt and leaves Shepard alone in his room hanging.

#295
Guest_darkness reborn_*

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This thread is still going?

Damn! talk about beating a dead horse.

#296
DPSSOC

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darkness reborn wrote...

This thread is still going?

Damn! talk about beating a dead horse.


It's BSN it's what we do, only thing that ever changes is Bioware gives us some new horses.

#297
Shepard_Vas_Normandy

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I think that Liara uses her so-called "badassness" because she wants to emulate Shepard. In Lotsb, she breaks down, showing her inner feelings, after making out that she didn't have them. Shes still a bit of that maiden asari, thrust into a kind of matron stage way earlier then she probably should have.

#298
Hyrist

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Shepard_Vas_Normandy wrote...

I think that Liara uses her so-called "badassness" because she wants to emulate Shepard. In Lotsb, she breaks down, showing her inner feelings, after making out that she didn't have them. Shes still a bit of that maiden asari, thrust into a kind of matron stage way earlier then she probably should have.


I think it was more created out of necessity, taking her cold analytical parts she gained from being a political daughter and being a researcher, and taking that detatchment to the next level to use as a personality shield on Illium.

In either case. Liara's writing is good. She's got more memorable moment to moment line work in her DLC than some main characters.

People think her plotline was derailed in ME2, which only makes sense if you're only using the games as the sole refrence.

As far as her being the 'same idealized, childlike person'. That would make sense. 2 Years for an asari is about two months for a human. She's consitered 'barely older than a child' by her race's standards, so her development remains consistant on that path, in spite of her ability to adapt.

The question if her love is genuine and not just hero worship is as subjective as the subject of love itself, so there is no right answer. To me, an honest, if naive love is appealing, as people in real life often overcomplicate it themselves.

Anyways, each romance has a differnt flavor to it. I think Bioware's writers did a good job with all of them.


-- On the subject of character's with Daddy issues.

Parental Issues are kinda common in ME characters.

Wrex had to kill his own dad.
Liara dosen't know who her 'dad' is.
Tali feels unloved by her dad.
Miranda is on the run from her dad.
Garrus lives a life his dad would not have approved of.

#299
Marcin K

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in my humble opinion their [Shep and Liara] love is genuine

#300
XEternalXDreamsX

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Okay, stupid question. How old was Liara when Shepard first had sex with her? Not illegal, right? Or can he also be charged with that along side blowing up a system?