134 réponses à ce sujet

[IanPolaris]

Rawgrim wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I'd prefer a series tried something new and failed, rather than end up playing the same games forever and ever because developers are too afraid of upsetting their "loyal fanbase".

I consider DA2 a success, I prefer it over Origins and would like to see more games like it. I don't really care what anyone else thinks.

Seriously, I don't get it - making ONE sequel to the first game of a new franchise that looks, feels and plays like it's predecessor ist NOT doing the same game forever and ever, no matter how often people like you say it is. I understand that you don't give a **** about the arguments other gamers have, and you can consider DA2 a success as much as you like, but seriously, doing a complete overhaul after the first and very successful game of a newly established franchise within a ridiculous schedule is just not a good idea.

Good thing we have never seen this before from sucessful franchsies,like Mario Bros, Zelda, Final Fantasy, XCOM, Mass Effect, Ultima, Elder Scrolls, Metroid.....

Oh, wait...

I don`t remember Ultima doing a complete overhaul from ultima 1-2. Arena and Daggerfall wern`t that different either (elder scrolls).

No offense, but I think your sarcasm meter may be broken.  You might want to have it checked.  Near as I can tell, that was the point that LinksOcarina was trying to make in a backhanded way....

-Polaris

[nitefyre410]

Plaintiff wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I'd prefer a series tried something new and failed, rather than end up playing the same games forever and ever because developers are too afraid of upsetting their "loyal fanbase".

I consider DA2 a success, I prefer it over Origins and would like to see more games like it. I don't really care what anyone else thinks.

DA2 was so successful that people are still raging about it nearly a year later.

DA:O was so unsuccessful, it still has people jerking over it and using it to slam DA2.

Money-wise? Yeah. DA2 was successful. But not really in anything else besides "# of gamers alienated".

I consider DA2 a success because I like it, that's the only thing I measure by. The amount of people who disagree is irrelevent, because I consider them flat-out wrong.

 


You know I liked Okami that was till  this date one of the prettiest games graphically  I have seen to date even going against  a lot of current  gen... and lot more fun too.   I thought came was a huge success

unfortunate the reality that Bioware and Capcom have to live by  the reality where the success of a game is  the  dollar is pulls  in..

I like DA 2 as well

but it was not sucessful in implimenting that changes that they wanted to impliment between it and its predecessor  and that is issue and that was needs be fixed. 

The failure to impliment this changes successful is what hurt DA 2 and stopped it from being a sales and critically success.

[Zanallen]

Zanallen wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Mario RPG, which was a real game on the SNES, was a total failure.

 

BLASPHEMER!

Mario RPG was an incredible game.

In fact, I feel the need to go on to say that you are flat out wrong. The game received highly favorable reviews and sold quite well.

[nitefyre410]

Zanallen wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Mario RPG, which was a real game on the SNES, was a total failure.

 

BLASPHEMER!

Mario RPG was an incredible game.

In fact, I feel the need to go on to say that you are flat out wrong. The game received highly favorable reviews and sold quite well.

Looks at bold... wait.... WHAT?  

HERATIC! 

 Fast J buddy  please tell your joking man

[Estherra Drack]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Mario RPG, which was a real game on the SNES, was a total failure.

 

BLASPHEMER!

Mario RPG was an incredible game.

In fact, I feel the need to go on to say that you are flat out wrong. The game received highly favorable reviews and sold quite well.

Looks at bold... wait.... WHAT?  

HERATIC! 

 Fast J buddy  please tell your joking man

Didn't Mario RPG sell around 2 million? Back in 96? Wasn't Final Fantasy games back then selling 4 million each? Besides that i really liked Mario RPG, then again most games and shows that I like end up being cancelled or failures. Eerie, Indiana comes to mind.

Modifié par Estherra Drack, 30 décembre 2011 - 06:37 .

[LinksOcarina]

IanPolaris wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I'd prefer a series tried something new and failed, rather than end up playing the same games forever and ever because developers are too afraid of upsetting their "loyal fanbase".

I consider DA2 a success, I prefer it over Origins and would like to see more games like it. I don't really care what anyone else thinks.

Seriously, I don't get it - making ONE sequel to the first game of a new franchise that looks, feels and plays like it's predecessor ist NOT doing the same game forever and ever, no matter how often people like you say it is. I understand that you don't give a **** about the arguments other gamers have, and you can consider DA2 a success as much as you like, but seriously, doing a complete overhaul after the first and very successful game of a newly established franchise within a ridiculous schedule is just not a good idea.

Good thing we have never seen this before from sucessful franchsies,like Mario Bros, Zelda, Final Fantasy, XCOM, Mass Effect, Ultima, Elder Scrolls, Metroid.....

Oh, wait...

I don`t remember Ultima doing a complete overhaul from ultima 1-2. Arena and Daggerfall wern`t that different either (elder scrolls).

No offense, but I think your sarcasm meter may be broken.  You might want to have it checked.  Near as I can tell, that was the point that LinksOcarina was trying to make in a backhanded way....

-Polaris

While I appreciate the defense Polaris, he was on the right track, sort of.

Ultima 1-2 and Arena and Daggerfall are not that different from each other, but Daggerfall to Morrowind and Ultima 3-6 were vastly different from each other in many respects, toying with gameplay mechanics and graphics in different ways. 

I also thought of a few other series that have had overhauls before, Street Fighter, Soul Calibur, Dynasty Warriors, the Persona Series....the list is endless. My point is that each of these series have went different directions than their first few iterations, some return to the old formula, others perfect the new formula they make to a shiny coat. 

I guess my point was that innovation is important, and when it works (or doesn't work) we should celebrate the fact that it tried to do something. In regards to Dragon Age II, we know they will not go back to the previous art style, we know they will not have a silent protagonist again, or other aspects that were changed, such as combat and equipping armor for characters and what not. I believe they said Dragon Age II was a lot closer to what they wanted to make than Origins, but since Origins was in a seven year development cycle a lot got changed in the process.

But we do know they will tweak this to make it more attune to what was there before, and we should celebrate that fact moreso than the change that has occured. If anything, I am hopeful that the shortcomings Dragon Age II does have will be rectified in Dragon Age III, and we can put to rest any doubts about the games future because of the polarizing opinions II has brought out on all of us.


Both camps are right, innovation within reason is important. Dragon Age II innovated within reason, it just didn't gel correctly.

[LinksOcarina]

Estherra Drack wrote...

Didn't Mario RPG sell around 2 million? Back in 96? Wasn't Final Fantasy games back then selling 4 million each? Besides that i really liked Mario RPG, then again most games and shows that I like end up being cancelled or failures. Eerie, Indiana comes to mind.

Actually, It sold around 1 million copies in 1996, in Japan only. The U.S, under 600,000 copies.

Retroactively it has sold over 2 million since 1996, maybe even more, the numbers are not trustworthy and VG Chartz is a terrible source for this kind of stuff. They say over 2 million, and they are probably bare minimun at best. Also got to keep in mind it came out late in the SNES shelf-life, May of that year, when in September of 1996 the Nintendo 64 was released. 

Sad thing is no one really tracked sales back then unless if it was a million seller, Ocarina of Time sold 8.5 million because it was a fast seller and over a million in less than a month. 

But yeah, it didn't sell well back then. Great game, but it happens. Planescape Torment was an awesome RPG, but tanked in sales.

[Realmzmaster]

Daggerfall to Morrowind saw many changes. I will talk about one: the cursor based interface. It existed in both Arena and Daggerfall and was dumped in Morrowind. (in my opinion it was not for the better). Arena had the cursor based interface.Daggerfall had two views : Cursor based and View based. Cursor based allowed everything to be done with the mouse including movement. The view based interface had the movement controlled by the arrow keys and the mouse controlled where the character looked (which is the system used by Skyrim).

I know gamers who could not play Morrowind because they have the same aliment I have now arthritis in the left hand. They had no problem playing Arena/Daggerfall because it allow full mouse control.
I know this may not be a big deal to many gamers but it was a complaint I voiced long ago on the TES forum. At that time it did not affect me. I played Morrowind and Oblivion with no problem. Unfortunately aging is not always kind to the gamer. In the time span between Oblivion and Skyrim I developed arthritis. I cannot play Skyrim. I tried. No game is worth that kind of distress. I have no problem -playing Arena or Daggerfall.

I have no problem playing Bioware cRPgs because they are mouse based (which is why I do not play Mass Effect). BG1& BG2, NWN, DAO and DA2 are more accessible in that regard. I know of no mods that change or add the cursor based interface to TES games after Daggerfall.
I was able to play Witcher 1 with no problem because it was based on the Aurora engine mouse controllable. No so with TW2.

I understand these are design choices. Bethesda chose to go that route. As long as Dragon Age and Bioware cRPGs are mouse based I will be playing them.

[HiroVoid]

Estherra Drack wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Mario RPG, which was a real game on the SNES, was a total failure.

 

BLASPHEMER!

Mario RPG was an incredible game.

In fact, I feel the need to go on to say that you are flat out wrong. The game received highly favorable reviews and sold quite well.

Looks at bold... wait.... WHAT?  

HERATIC! 

 Fast J buddy  please tell your joking man

Didn't Mario RPG sell around 2 million? Back in 96? Wasn't Final Fantasy games back then selling 4 million each? Besides that i really liked Mario RPG, then again most games and shows that I like end up being cancelled or failures. Eerie, Indiana comes to mind.

The Mario RPG got a spiritual successor in the 'Paper Mario' games which still continue today, so it doesn't seem like it was a failure.

Modifié par HiroVoid, 30 décembre 2011 - 10:13 .

[Fast Jimmy]

I apologize to anyone who was offended by my Mario RPG comment. I only meant to demonstrate it was not nearly as much of a success as other Mario games.

If I have to surrender my Gamer Badge, I will understand...

[LinksOcarina]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I apologize to anyone who was offended by my Mario RPG comment. I only meant to demonstrate it was not nearly as much of a success as other Mario games.

If I have to surrender my Gamer Badge, I will understand...

Don't worry about it, no one was offended and honestly, you are right in several contexts anyway.

[Estherra Drack]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I apologize to anyone who was offended by my Mario RPG comment. I only meant to demonstrate it was not nearly as much of a success as other Mario games.

If I have to surrender my Gamer Badge, I will understand...

Yes. And we'll take your man card as well. jk

But you do have a point platforming Mario beats all with his McDonalds like sells numbers. Hell Disney's Mickey Mouse isn't as well known.

Modifié par Estherra Drack, 31 décembre 2011 - 04:27 .

[Melca36]

Plaintiff wrote...

I'd prefer a series tried something new and failed, rather than end up playing the same games forever and ever because developers are too afraid of upsetting their "loyal fanbase".

I consider DA2 a success, I prefer it over Origins and would like to see more games like it. I don't really care what anyone else thinks.

Looks like you will probably be upset because they already said they are bringing back elements from Origins.

[Plaintiff]

Melca36 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I'd prefer a series tried something new and failed, rather than end up playing the same games forever and ever because developers are too afraid of upsetting their "loyal fanbase".

I consider DA2 a success, I prefer it over Origins and would like to see more games like it. I don't really care what anyone else thinks.

Looks like you will probably be upset because they already said they are bringing back elements from Origins.

"Elements of Origins" could mean anything. They've also said that they plan to keep a lot of DA2.

I don't need or want DA3 to be exactly the same as DA2. It can be like it in some ways and unlike it in others. The important thing is that Bioware keeps trying new things.

[Melca36]

Plaintiff wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I'd prefer a series tried something new and failed, rather than end up playing the same games forever and ever because developers are too afraid of upsetting their "loyal fanbase".

I consider DA2 a success, I prefer it over Origins and would like to see more games like it. I don't really care what anyone else thinks.

Looks like you will probably be upset because they already said they are bringing back elements from Origins.

"Elements of Origins" could mean anything. They've also said that they plan to keep a lot of DA2.

I don't need or want DA3 to be exactly the same as DA2. It can be like it in some ways and unlike it in others. The important thing is that Bioware keeps trying new things.

I liked DA:2 but it was a rushed game and the quality is lacking because of that. The DLCs were excellent though.

They said they were going to keep what worked in DA:2 and make it better as well as bring back elements from Origins they took away. 

As fun as DA:2 was...it only sold half of what Origins sold so they do have to come up with a reasonable compromise instead of pandering to one fanbase

[alex90c]

Melca36 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I'd prefer a series tried something new and failed, rather than end up playing the same games forever and ever because developers are too afraid of upsetting their "loyal fanbase".

I consider DA2 a success, I prefer it over Origins and would like to see more games like it. I don't really care what anyone else thinks.

Looks like you will probably be upset because they already said they are bringing back elements from Origins.

Where have Bioware ever said that?

[Meris]

alex90c wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I'd prefer a series tried something new and failed, rather than end up playing the same games forever and ever because developers are too afraid of upsetting their "loyal fanbase".

I consider DA2 a success, I prefer it over Origins and would like to see more games like it. I don't really care what anyone else thinks.

Looks like you will probably be upset because they already said they are bringing back elements from Origins.

Where have Bioware ever said that?

What do you think DA3 being a compromise between Origins and Dragon Age 2 means?

[Kid Buu]

DA2s entire game is broken.

[TheRealJayDee]

LinksOcarina wrote...
I believe they said Dragon Age II was a lot closer to what they wanted to make than Origins, but since Origins was in a seven year development cycle a lot got changed in the process. 

So because DA:O had a dramatically longer development cycle they were less able to make the game (present their newly created universe) like they wanted, but were able to get closer to that vision with the ridiculously short time they had to make DA2? I'm not sure I understand how that works...

[cJohnOne]

As long as DA3 sells a couple of million, I don't know why the series should not continue even if it isn't amazing.

DA2 had cost restraints and a tight time Schedule. Given that it was a pretty good game.

I personally prefer the DAO way with tanking, off-tanking, healer, DPS mage etc.

[alex90c]

Meris wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I'd prefer a series tried something new and failed, rather than end up playing the same games forever and ever because developers are too afraid of upsetting their "loyal fanbase".

I consider DA2 a success, I prefer it over Origins and would like to see more games like it. I don't really care what anyone else thinks.

Looks like you will probably be upset because they already said they are bringing back elements from Origins.

Where have Bioware ever said that?

What do you think DA3 being a compromise between Origins and Dragon Age 2 means?

Bioware have also stated that they're not doing a 180, and that they want to go more in the DA2 direction (e.g. waves are staying, hooray!!!). I think when DA3 comes out, similarities it has to Origins will be more coincidental than intentional.

[Estherra Drack]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...
I believe they said Dragon Age II was a lot closer to what they wanted to make than Origins, but since Origins was in a seven year development cycle a lot got changed in the process. 

So because DA:O had a dramatically longer development cycle they were less able to make the game (present their newly created universe) like they wanted, but were able to get closer to that vision with the ridiculously short time they had to make DA2? I'm not sure I understand how that works...

It doesn't work. Whoever said that was just doing some DA2 marketing speak. I mean Brent Knowles said one of the reasons he left was because of the new direction for DA2, which makes that argument invalid like so.

[LinksOcarina]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...
I believe they said Dragon Age II was a lot closer to what they wanted to make than Origins, but since Origins was in a seven year development cycle a lot got changed in the process. 

So because DA:O had a dramatically longer development cycle they were less able to make the game (present their newly created universe) like they wanted, but were able to get closer to that vision with the ridiculously short time they had to make DA2? I'm not sure I understand how that works...

I never said that. I am just saying that the way Dragon Age Origins was made intially probably evolved over time, and it was too late to go to new models or modes of animations.

As for someone leaving because of changes like that, it happens. I am not sure if it makes any argument invalid or not.

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 31 décembre 2011 - 06:18 .

[twincast]

LinksOcarina wrote...

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Seriously, I don't get it - making ONE sequel to the first game of a new franchise that looks, feels and plays like it's predecessor ist NOT doing the same game forever and ever, no matter how often people like you say it is. I understand that you don't give a **** about the arguments other gamers have, and you can consider DA2 a success as much as you like, but seriously, doing a complete overhaul after the first and very successful game of a newly established franchise within a ridiculous schedule is just not a good idea.

Good thing we have never seen this before from sucessful franchsies,like Mario Bros, Zelda, Final Fantasy, XCOM, Mass Effect, Ultima, Elder Scrolls, Metroid.....

Oh, wait...

I'll grant you Final Fantasy II and Mass Effect 2, but Western Super Mario Bros. 2 doesn't really count, The Adventure of Link actually counters your argument and the others frankly didn't change much.

Modifié par twincast, 03 janvier 2012 - 02:46 .

[LinksOcarina]

I'm not talking about Super Mario Bros. 2....i'm talking about Mario Bros. and Super Mario Bros.


And how does Adventure of Link counter the argument?  It's a side-scrolling game that is more of an RPG over a top-down game that is more of an action/adventure.

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 03 janvier 2012 - 02:49 .